Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #4

[Davia18]

I've read the first couple of threads but didn't manage to catch up with the third one or this one but I just wanted to say a few words.

First off, I'm very sorry to hear about poor Nora. May you rest in peace. And may your parents take comfort knowing that you passed away in the area that you most wanted to visit and that you were found and they are able to take you home.

I was curious if she could swim? It was mentioned on another thread about how she must have liked the water so I couldn't help but wonder if she might have seen something or someone that ignited her curiosity in to leaving the house via the window and perhaps if she couldn't walk very well, she might have stumbled / crawled quite far away to where the sniffer dogs last smelt her. Maybe it was her seen washing in the river. Maybe she could have swam a little down the river if she could swim and maybe where the river turned in to a stream, she might have walked through it or crawled through it, hoping she would find the waterfall.

Now I wanted to share something which I feel is quite important and especially if it might help someone as vulnerable as Nora in a natural environment in the future. I have first hand experience of how forests/woodlands can transform the life of someone who is unable to leave the house on their own but comes alive and acts like a totally different person when they're in a forest/woodland. They appear to have loads of energy and a totally out of character way of viewing things. They love nature and wildlife so deeply and feel energised by it and full of curiosity and just have that confidence to walk around and enjoy their surroundings. It's like the forest environment with all its nature and wildlife feeds their soul and before they know it, they have wandered off quite far. I can't help but wonder if this was perhaps how Nora felt?

Missstery - I agree with your possible theory. I wonder what stories she was read nightly?

 

[steff13]

Sadly l think it will be easier for mum and dad to think some nefarious force was at work than to accept they innocently took her to her place of death.

This is exactly what I have been thinking.

 

[SuperTmo]

What reason do we have to believe that she didn't just go out the door? Is it simply because the window was open? She could have opened the window and still gone out the door. The window could have been open when they got there and they didn't notice.

If there is no evidence that anyone else was in the house, no evidence of a struggle, etc., I think the most likely scenario is that she left on her own, regardless of how unlikely her family believes that to be.

Yeah; I agree! The window looked fairly narrow with only one side open, so it seems harder than needed when she could go out the door. I personally believe the family just had the window open and in the chaos of that morning forgot that they left it open.

I think the parents desperately want someone to be responsible for this. They don’t want to believe that Nora could have just walked out the door on her own because they would probably blame themselves for selecting a vacation location that they could not secure with a locking door.

Unfortunately I think they just took for granted that Nora had never left on her own before, and that she always stayed close. It wasn’t that she couldn’t do these things, she just never felt the urge to do that before. That urge might have been in search of something or out of concern. It could be as simple as she woke up and was frightened or worried, went looking for her parents, and opened the front door instead of their bedroom door. Then once outside got confused and wandered away.

Just because a kid hasn’t ever wandered away before doesn’t mean they won’t intentionally or accidentally. I hope that there wasn’t a delay in getting the major search operation going based on the assumption that she was stolen.

 

[Alyce]

I would like to see exactly where Nora was found and how visible and how far it is from the section of the waterfall that is shown on all the tourist pics. I am assuming those pics show the lowest level of the waterfall.

The hikers said they could see Nora's body from about 60 metres away ( and smell it ) but I think they were coming from a higher level of the stream/waterfall.

Also I wonder if the route the hikers took was the usual one used by anyone trekking to the falls - and, if so, where there any other hikers nearby over that week end.

Finally - and I may have missed this - but did the autopsy result tell us whether Nora died at the spot she was found or elsewhere ?

 

[SuperTmo]

BBM: I've been wondering if it boils down to what she found to eat or drink that caused the bleed. She had to have been very hungry and may have ingested a toxic plant or as you said, parasitic water.
As for why she may have wandered away, I wonder if she may have woken out of a deep sleep and been disoriented. This wasn't her home, nothing looked familiar. She may have left out of confusion and fear, trying to find her home. This story just breaks my heart.

Yeah, exactly. And she may have had some pre-existing stomach issues that she needed medicine for. This link discusses some of the common issues that are associated with her condition.

Holoprosencephaly - Minnesota Department of Health

 

[Simply Southern]

Do we know what is the distance between where Nora was found and where the sighting of the woman in the river?

Also, I was looking for clarification of the window. I'm not sure if this is a quote from the family but it appears by this statement they discovered the window open. I just can't comprehend how she would go through all that trouble to climb out of the window, unless she didn't know how to unlock the door or there were special locks on the door.

I posted most of the first thread media links on page 1 of this thread..lots of information/pictures of the window. We talked about the window alot in the thread.

 

[SuperTmo]

I can understand Nora’s parents exaggerating her vulnerability to police because it took them 3 hours to arrive.
It effected our opinions on here about what we thought happened to poor Nora when they were so consistent that she was kidnapped.
We can only put trust into the Autopsy results but knowone can 100% say why she ended up outside.
Lots of theories that could fit she heard animals noises or she was lured or she woke up because of the truck or she was sacrificed because of religious reasons or she had fight with her family and ran away the list is endless.All we know is the poor girl died and thankfully wasn’t murdered.
I can’t imagine how her family must feel especially her mum she seemed very close to her from what I’ve read about their life.
They chose that resort with that jungle for Nora so clearly thought she could handle it fine they shouldn’t feel guilt for trying to help their disabled child experience something amazing.
I hope that in the future being a mother of 2 vulnerable daughters that other parents think is the trip suitable is the accommodation suitable and encase of emergency for any reason how quickly could you access the help so something like this never happens again.
Resorts need to learn from this please put child locks on their accommodations when your aware that there is children as guests.
RIP pretty Nora x

Do we know from official sources that the police took 3 hours or is that just from what the Dutch person said?

 

[SuperTmo]

Hope they get to bring her body back home because to go through what they have and to have to leave her behind for more tests would be horrific and just add to their pain.

They have permission to take her at any time now.

 

[Simply Southern]

I would like to see exactly where Nora was found and how visible and how far it is from the section of the waterfall that is shown on all the tourist pics. I am assuming those pics show the lowest level of the waterfall.

The hikers said they could see Nora's body from about 60 metres away ( and smell it ) but I think they were coming from a higher level of the stream/waterfall.

Also I wonder if the route the hikers took was the usual one used by anyone trekking to the falls - and, if so, where there any other hikers nearby over that week end.

Finally - and I may have missed this - but did the autopsy result tell us whether Nora died at the spot she was found or elsewhere ?

The hikers came thru an oil plantation, I'm thinking a different side/route to the waterfall. They were above Nora's location and walked downstream to the waterfall.

They noticed the smell first. I'm sure they were on alert and carefully searching, as they had to suspect it was Nora.

Jmo

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Negri Sembilan police chief this evening confirmed that the search and rescue team did cover the area where Nóra Quoirin’s body was found, however he said the Irish teenager could have been on the move during the period of their search.

Datuk Mohamad Mat Yusop told Malay Mail that the area was covered until day seven of Nora’s disappearance.
Meanwhile, he also confirmed again that Nora was found completely unclothed.

He clarified investigators cannot ascertain what she wore before disappearing from The Dusun resort.

“Her parents told us she was last seen on the bed of the resort at 10pm with her undergarment. That statement was taken from her parents.

“However we cannot establish if she disappeared from the resort with or without her undergarment. We have to further investigate all this,” he said.

Negri police chief says Nora Quoirin may have been ‘mobile’, confirms area where body found was scoured | Malay Mail

 

[Simply Southern]

They have permission to take her at any time now.

Thank you. Having the body is much comfort. We lost my niece in a horrific accident and had only a small portion of her body. That in its self was a comfort, to know we could lay her to rest.

Jmo

 

[SuperTmo]

family of the London teenager whose body was found in a Malaysian jungle on Tuesday have urged the police to continue to investigate the case as a possible crime after foul play was ruled out by an autopsy.

Nora, who had serious learning disabilities, disappeared from her family’s holiday bungalow on August 4 and is believed to have died two to three days before her body was found.

However, Charles Morel, the French lawyer of her Franco-Irish parents, who believe she may have been abducted, told The Daily Telegraph that her family still “aren’t ruling anything out” as they “remain convinced that it is improbable that Nora left the bungalow voluntarily.”

The authorities must explore the possibility of a “criminal act,” he added. “We want to make sure not only that this [criminal] hypothesis is not ruled out, but that [the investigators] work on it… taking into account the importance of tourism in Malaysia and its image, the authorities may tend to prioritise the thesis that she left [voluntarily] over the criminal hypothesis,” said Mr Morel.

Compounding the family’s doubts is the difficult terrain that Nora would have had to cross to the spot where she was found, in a sleeping position in a stream in a ravine about 1.5 miles from the resort in Seremban, 39 miles from the capital, Kuala Lumpur.

The location where she was found means she would have had to follow “an extremely steep path through the jungle,” said Mr Morel.
Nora Quoirin death: family urges police to continue to investigate after foul play ruled out

This is assuming anyone knows the route she took to get where she ended up, and nobody has any way of knowing that. Yeah, maybe rough or steep terrain if she went the direct route but she could have just zigzagged all over the place.

 

[Lyall0814]

Do we know from official sources that the police took 3 hours or is that just from what the Dutch person said?

Good question. Journalists don't appear to repeating that claim.

 

[Ellmau]

I agree with those saying this appears to have been a tragic accident, with Nora wandering out and getting lost. She must have been so scared ;(

 

[TTF14]

Nora Quoirin's family 'still think she was abducted from Malaysian resort...

Charles Morell, lawyer for parents Sebastien and Meabh, said the pair have also not ruled out pursuing a criminal probe and are waiting for the results of DNA and toxicology tests before making a decision.

Speaking to Irish broadcaster RTE, he said today the Quoirins 'cannot understand how Nora could leave by herself' and urged 'caution' over post-mortem results which showed Nora died of intestinal trauma likely caused by starvation and stress.

Meanwhile, Sylvain Quoirin, Nora's paternal grandfather, told the Irish Times that 'dark areas need to be cleared up for the family to be able to grieve in peace.'

Nora Quoirin's family 'still think she was abducted from Malaysian resort' | Daily Mail Online

BBM. What DNA? Obtained from where?

 

[Simply Southern]

This is assuming anyone knows the route she took to get where she ended up, and nobody has any way of knowing that. Yeah, maybe rough or steep terrain if she went the direct route but she could have just zigzagged all over the place.

This is normal. There's always, why it's, did ya do this or that?

When a love one dies, especially when facts are unknown, it leaves so many unanswered questions. We want to know how they spent there last hours or of course why,why, why.

Sometimes we don't get all the answers. This leave the mind to wonder, not good. The recovery of the family will take many years. I know, its been almost 8 years since my nieces death and we still speculate and wonder. My brother in law had a total nervous breakdown. She was also a twin.

Lets just be kind....

JMHO

 

[SuperTmo]

Good question. Journalists don't appear to repeating that claim.

Right! I’ve read it from the Dutch person in the one Dutch paper. It has been relentlessly repeated here. I have never heard it confirmed that the police arrived at x time and the search began at y time, and that that was 3 hours after they were notified.

It’s unfortunate because the resort owners and the police have all been repeatedly bashed on this forum. They have been accused by posters here of being in a cover up, trying to delay a search from beginning... all due to what seems to be, at this point, an unsubstantiated rumor.

 

[SuperTmo]

BBM. What DNA? Obtained from where?

Probably to scientifically verify that this is Nora. They still have to have definitive proof even though the father identified her.

 

[Skigh]

BBM. What DNA? Obtained from where?

I was wondering that too.Could be from her hair or skin .

 

[Simply Southern]

BBM. What DNA? Obtained from where?

Malaysia collects DNA upon entering and exiting the county, if you are traveling by air.

They maybe awaiting results of DNA collected from her body to determine, if DNA other than Nora's is present.

It takes time. If other DNA is found, I feel sure it would be run thru CODIS. They have the best of resources available.

Jmo