Found Deceased Malaysia - Nora Quoirin, 15, from UK, special needs, missing on vacation, Seremban, 4 Aug 2019 #5

[SuperTmo]

Yes, the description was explained in more detail and clarified later.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. To me ADHD, Dyslexia, language Disorders, and other LD's are mild disabilities. Many behavior disorders are mild disabilities.
Anyway, I was referring to how she would be classified in terms of SpecialEd. Imo

Right. But why not just lay it out bare right from the start? She didn’t have mild learning disabilities, so why was it put out that way. I would say they were quite severe, based on the later explanation. Did the parents tell the police all of the struggles she had immediately, or was it several days later too? I guess I feel like there shouldn’t have been a need to go back and clarify later.

 

[Teratai]

I hope I can ask this without offending anybody. It’s a genuine question.

Why are Nóra’s parents insisting she was abducted especially when they was no sign of sexual assault on the post Mortem?

Sorry if I missed anything...

 

[Eve71]

My gut feeling is, chances are somebody must have seen/met her

Yes, of course she had many capabilities but she needed assistance with daily living skills on a regular basis.

She may have needed assistance while walking, especially in difficult terrain, such as a steep hill, and definitely for all the stream and river crossings on the trail that leads to the waterfall.
She did not require a wheelchair or a walker, so obviously she was capable of getting around in a regular environment.

But in order to navigate her way through the jungle, it just doesn't make any sense that she could have done it alone.
She would have fallen many times, and that she did not have any severe injuries other than some bruises on her legs and scratches is unbelievable.

Just because she had disabilities doesn't mean she was not capable of travelling with her parents. They knew what her limitations were and I'm sure they had the means to help her.
That still doesn't mean she could have done all those things independently. If she never even went out into their garden by herself, imagine what it would be like to walk for days through the jungle. Imo

So what your saying happened was someone snuck in, crept up the stairs on the off chance Norah would be up there, carried her from her bed with not a sound heard by the 2 children sleeping opposite, managed to navigate the steep, windy stairs carrying a 15 year old, all without a sound heard. The abductor then took her far into the jungle , didn’t feed or water her, wasn’t interested in sexually assaulting or physically hurting her her but for some off the wall reason decided to keep her captive until she finally passed, then carried her to the waterfall and placed her in a sleeping position with no effort to cover her body. Miraculously this elusive abductor managed all this whilst staying hidden from the 300 odd people searching for her. Not only is there zero evidence, there’s no motive whatsoever.

 

[MsBetsy]

If someone wants to pay enough, I’m sure their kid could go to her school. Of the kids born alive with her brain condition, I don’t know that it is true that most die before a year, since there is a large range of severity. It sounds like she had the least severe form.

I don’t think anyone meant the mom called it mild, it is just that the description of her abilities seemed to get worse as time went on. Had they made it very clear that she can walk just fine, albeit with some balance struggles, perhaps people would have searched more further away and in harder to access areas.

Well, maybe it's different there, but in the US they are not going to pay for things like Occupational Therapy, Speech Therapy, Physical Therapy, and other specialists unless the child is proven to be eligible.

It's not the parents who pay for the school, it's the School District.
So maybe she attended a private school that the parents had to pay for. If so, I was not aware of that.

And yes, the reporting in the beginning was confusing. I'm sure that was due to the language barrier and of course the media is well known for missreporting things consistently. It's been a problem in every case I've followed.
I think that's why the the family needed to clear things up, and the Spokesman for the LBT said that only their information was reliable concerning the family.

And yes, some did say the mother called it mild and then it "went" to her not being able to walk. If you go back you will find plenty of posts criticizing the mother for her choice of words.

The media does not always quote people accurately, so all I meant was that it is unfair to criticize a grieving parent for the way they describe their child.

And yes, as I said before, considering her diagnosis she was very high functioning.
I guess it depends what you read, but I had read that many born with a severe condition don't live until age one or are born stillborn. Imo

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Well, maybe it's different there, but in the US they are not going to pay for things like Occupational Therapy, Speech Therapy, Physical Therapy, and other specialists unless the child is proven to be eligible.

It's not the parents who pay for the school, it's the School District.
So maybe she attended a private school that the parents had to pay for. If so, I was not aware of that.

And yes, the reporting in the beginning was confusing. I'm sure that was due to the language barrier and of course the media is well known for missreporting things consistently. It's been a problem in every case I've followed.
I think that's why the the family needed to clear things up, and the Spokesman for the LBT said that only their information was reliable concerning the family.

And yes, some did say the mother called it mild and then it "went" to her not being able to walk. If you go back you will find plenty of posts criticizing the mother for her choice of words.

The media does not always quote people accurately, so all I meant was that it is unfair to criticize a grieving parent for the way they describe their child.

And yes, as I said before, considering her diagnosis she was very high functioning.
I guess it depends what you read, but I had read that many born with a severe condition don't live until age one or are born stillborn. Imo

The family live in London. It sounds v similar Ms B in that they would be allocated a school place based on the child's assessed needs. For free. Some children with special needs may attend a regular school and have special assistance provided by the school. Also free. Which to be clear I am v glad about. However they may have decided to pay for private schooling for all three children as far as we know. Some people just opt to do that, but it is expensive in the Uk

 

[SuperTmo]

It doesn't really have anything to to with choice, or what Nora wanted to do, it's that she would not have been capable of travelling that far in the jungle.
Even if she could, it's highly unlikely that she would have entered the jungle at all. At least not by herself. Imo

So if you believe she couldn’t have done this alone, and there are zero signs of an abduction, what do you think happened? Just curious!

 

[MsBetsy]

Right. But why not just lay it out bare right from the start? She didn’t have mild learning disabilities, so why was it put out that way. I would say they were quite severe, based on the later explanation. Did the parents tell the police all of the struggles she had immediately, or was it several days later too? I guess I feel like there shouldn’t have been a need to go back and clarify later.

There's always a need if it was misunderstood in the first place.
It was very important for police to understand the extent of her disabilities and I'm not sure they did immediately. Maybe they misinterpreted some of what was told to them. One wrong word can change the meaning of something when you a are trying to communicate in another language.
Look how many people thought "unclothed" did not mean the same as "naked." Imo

 

[Njust1]

Yes, the description was explained in more detail and clarified later.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. To me ADHD, Dyslexia, language Disorders, and other LD's are mild disabilities. Many behavior disorders are mild disabilities.
Anyway, I was referring to how she would be classified in terms of SpecialEd. Imo

I totally understand the various descriptions/ categorisation of mild learning difficulties in all the glorious detail. But it transpired 5 days later that she has something more severe!

 

[HongKongPhooey]

There's always a need if it was misunderstood in the first place.
It was very important for police to understand the extent of her disabilities and I'm not sure they did immediately. Maybe they misinterpreted some of what was told to them. One wrong word can change the meaning of something when you a are trying to communicate in another language.
Look how many people thought "unclothed" did not mean the same as "naked." Imo

Definitely. Some words just dont exist in other languages. Other things have more than one word. I remember one of our Malay speaking posters explaining that the word for bathing in a river is different from swimming. Or something to that effect

 

[MsBetsy]

So if you believe she couldn’t have done this alone, and there are zero signs of an abduction, what do you think happened? Just curious!

I really have no idea. It's a complete mystery to me at this point.
There's no evidence and too many unknowns.
And we can never truly know what Nora's thoughts were or what caused her to leave the hotel alone if that's what she did. Imo

 

[jens]

I hope I can ask this without offending anybody. It’s a genuine question.

Why are Nóra’s parents insisting she was abducted especially when they was no sign of sexual assault on the post Mortem?

Sorry if I missed anything...

Nora’s parents have stated that she wouldn’t go anywhere by herself so for her to disappear she must have been abducted.

“She [Nora] was very shy, dependent on her mother and its not in her temperament to go out in the night after a long trip in a place she doesn’t know, in the jungle”.
Nora Quoirin’s grieving parents still believe teen was abducted | The Irish Post

 

[SuperTmo]

Well, maybe it's different there, but in the US they are not going to pay for things like Occupational Therapy, Speech Therapy, Physical Therapy, and other specialists unless the child is proven to be eligible.

It's not the parents who pay for the school, it's the School District.
So maybe she attended a private school that the parents had to pay for. If so, I was not aware of that.

And yes, the reporting in the beginning was confusing. I'm sure that was due to the language barrier and of course the media is well known for missreporting things consistently. It's been a problem in every case I've followed.
I think that's why the the family needed to clear things up, and the Spokesman for the LBT said that only their information was reliable concerning the family.

And yes, some did say the mother called it mild and then it "went" to her not being able to walk. If you go back you will find plenty of posts criticizing the mother for her choice of words.

The media does not always quote people accurately, so all I meant was that it is unfair to criticize a grieving parent for the way they describe their child.

And yes, as I said before, considering her diagnosis she was very high functioning.
I guess it depends what you read, but I had read that many born with a severe condition don't live until age one or are born stillborn. Imo

Oh I assumed it was a private school she went to.

In terms of the mom’s statement when she first went missing she said, “She isn’t like other 15 year olds. She looks younger, she can’t take care of herself, and won’t understand what is going on.”

You have to admit that is a far cry from how she was described several days later. Given the context of being missing in a foreign country, in the jungle no less, I think not being able to care for herself or understand what is going on would be most teens. Looking younger is the least relevant thing and was the first descriptor.

Ultimately, she sounds no different than other teens in that description, so the urgency just didn’t come across. That is why when she later was described far worse, people were surprised and questioned why the description changed so drastically.

Not sure if it would have changed the outcome at all to have had that info from the start. I assume the outcome might be the same regardless. It’s so unfortunate.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I totally understand the various descriptions/ categorisation of mild learning difficulties in all the glorious detail. But it transpired 5 days later that she has something more severe!

If I recall. The parents said from day one that no way would she venture outside due to her condition. They quickly released the name of it which clarified info re balance and so on. Discussed at length early on. It was the French grandfather who was quoted in msm (links earlier I'm sure) as saying she had mild disabilities. Allowing for translation too, this may explain some confusion.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Nora’s parents have stated that she wouldn’t go anywhere by herself so for her to disappear she must have been abducted.

...or went with someone she knew or had met since arriving.

 

[SuperTmo]

Definitely. Some words just dont exist in other languages. Other things have more than one word. I remember one of our Malay speaking posters explaining that the word for bathing in a river is different from swimming. Or something to that effect

But this is what the mom was quoted to have said.... reported in English by western media sources. There isn’t a language barrier there.

 

[Crazy Mama]

Possibly Nóra was abducted. Once the person realized that she was handicapped they might have decided that it was best to release her, and left her near the water fall thinking that she would be found quickly. How bad were her feet?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

But this is what the mom was quoted to have said.... reported in English by western media sources. There isn’t a language barrier there.

I was replying to Ms Betsy's post re local LE possibly misunderstanding something

 

[Chiatos]

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[imstilla.grandma]

Amid the outpouring of sympathy for the Quoirins’ loss of their special needs eldest child, many Malaysians also wondered if it’s possible for a person to starve to death in under 10 days.

To that question, paediatric surgeon at University Malaya Medical Centre Prof Dr Yik Yee Ian explains that prolonged hunger can cause acid to build up in the internal abdominal organ, which can lead to stomach ulcer or “leaky gut”, and that can be fatal.

Sinar Harian that leaky gut is when there are holes in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which includes the stomach and the small and large intestines, allowing for infection." data-reactid="25" style="margin-bottom: 1em; caret-color: rgb(38, 40, 42); color: rgb(38, 40, 42); font-family: "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 15px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: 100%;">He told Malay daily Sinar Harian that leaky gut is when there are holes in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, which includes the stomach and the small and large intestines, allowing for infection.

“A chronic stomach ulcer can cause leaky gut that could lead to peritonitis, which is due to extreme bacterial infection either through the blood or stomach. This can cause a shock to all the organs and inflict pain before causing death.

“However, the risk depends on the individual and their health status. Among the causes of leaky gut is due to infection, inflammation and trauma,” he was quoted saying.

He said most cases of leaky gut in children happen due to a pre-existing condition from birth.

“Cases of leaky gut involving children usually happens when they’ve had congenital malformations of the GI tract since birth,” he told Sinar Harian.

How extreme hunger leads to death: A paediatric surgeon explains after Nora Quoirin’s case

 

[Chiatos]

What is this thing about mild versus not mild? Is there a link to the parents /family having expressed themselves using the term 'mild'?