Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

[sorrell skye]

According to the AR, Officer Erhard arrived @ approximately 10:12, before paramedics. It isn't noted anywhere in the AR that Officer Erhard performed CPR on MS.

Why didn't Officer Erhard perform CPR until the paramedics arrived?

You'll have to ask him.

No, I don't have to ask him (but perhaps his superior officer might ask that question, or maybe MS's parents) - since (as a first responder) he should have immediately begun CPR upon his arrival (after making sure that paramedics were on the way) if it was not being performed (as has been alleged).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He couldn't have been revived from the fatal spinal cord contusion, is my belief, but had he been revived from whatever made him unconscious (with the supposition that he was unconscious prior to going over the rail, which is my belief), then he could have been revived from that.

JMO

So is a spinal cord contusion always fatal?

imo

 

[MyBelle]

It says that she told them she did. No one witnessed her giving CPR.

Right. She said she gave a few rescue breaths prior to yelling for XZ to call 911.

The ME summarized from Officer Erhard's report:

When Officer Erhard entered the home, he saw Rebecca kneeled beside Max. She was crying and yelling the child's name. Max was ashen, unresponsive and did not appear to be breathing.

Link is in your previous post on this thread.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

So is a spinal cord contusion always fatal?

imo

Not always. It's a bruising. My niece was thrown out the rear windshield of a car and suffered a spinal contusion. She wasn't paralyzed but she was in the hospital for quite some time.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

So is a spinal cord contusion always fatal?

imo

No. It typically is not. Think whiplash. That's what a spinal cord contusion is. Most people don't die from whiplash.

This is the link to the video I've posted previously that explains most people don't die from whiplash (spinal cord contusion):

http://www.empowher.com/whiplash/content/whiplash-it-fatal-dr-wang-video

 

[MyBelle]

No, I don't have to ask him (but perhaps his superior officer might ask that question, or maybe MS's parents) - since (as a first responder) he should have immediately begun CPR upon his arrival (after making sure that paramedics were on the way) if it was not being performed (as has been alleged).

Well, if you want to believe the guy didn't do CPR, that's up to you. His report cited by the ME didn't mention his giving CPR but it also didn't say he did not.

JMO

 

[CDS22]

Plus, he'd have to hit the wall multiple times to explain the pattern of the abrasions which are in a row down his middle back. Somebody holding him by the shoulders and banging his back against the railing multiple times is a more logical explanation.

JMO

Yes, or dragging him down a textured wall or down a carpeted staircase. If you note the abrasion pattern, it curves, with one final, larger abrasion at the bottom, as though he were being dragged, then lifted up and set down harshly.

JMO

 

[Quester]

RE: Christopher Reeves from 6/1/95 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A99660-1995Jun1.html

Reeve suffered fractures to the top two vertebrae, considered the most serious of cervical injuries, and also damaged his spinal cord, John A. Jane, the University of Virginia neurosurgeon treating Reeve in Charlottesville, revealed yesterday.

BBM

 

[CDS22]

RE: Christopher Reeves from 6/1/95 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A99660-1995Jun1.html

Reeve suffered fractures to the top two vertebrae, considered the most serious of cervical injuries, and also damaged his spinal cord, John A. Jane, the University of Virginia neurosurgeon treating Reeve in Charlottesville, revealed yesterday.

BBM

Yes, but there are many types of spinal cord injuries. They are not all the same.

 

[sorrell skye]

Well, if you want to believe the guy didn't do CPR, that's up to you. His report cited by the ME didn't mention his giving CPR but it also didn't say he did not.

JMO

:waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

Since he has not come out and said he has changed his opinion.... I think he still believes what he believed when he did the extensive tests on Max for four days.

IMO

Whatever extensive tests he did, he hasn't mentioned one word about spinal cord damage as a basis for his opinion. As for coming forward, I am not sure he could one way or the other because of patient-doctor confidentiality laws.

 

[CDS22]

Whatever extensive tests he did, he hasn't mentioned one word about spinal cord damage as a basis for his opinion. As for coming forward, I am not sure he could one way or the other because of patient-doctor confidentiality laws.

A question for you: Did Christopher Reeves have to die and have an autopsy before doctors could determine what was wrong with him?

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, or dragging him down a textured wall or down a carpeted staircase. If you note the abrasion pattern, it curves, with one final, larger abrasion at the bottom, as though he were being dragged, then lifted up and set down harshly.

JMO

Being dragged down the steps makes more sense to me than the railing because of the position of the abrasions along basically his spinal column.

Have you counted the abrasions and the number of steps to the landing?

 

[jjenny]

A question for you: Did Christopher Reeves have to die and have an autopsy before doctors could determine what was wrong with him?

Since he had a broken neck it was immediately obvious. Clearly not the same situation where a neck isn't broken, and spinal cord damage isn't visible.

 

[CDS22]

Since he had a broken neck it was immediately obvious. Clearly not the same situation where a neck isn't broken, and spinal cord damage isn't visible.

Sure it is. What do you think MRI's are for? I posted the link for you from the Mayo Clinic about how they diagnose spinal cord injuries with imaging technology.

 

[sorrell skye]

Analyzing injuries is like a puzzle. It's not enough to say "spinal cord injury". You have to know the specific kind of injury because only specific kinds of actions can cause certain injuries. That's why it's so significant that we know MS's head went back violently enough to unplug his spinal cord. He fell FORWARDS, not backwards. No marks on the back of his head. Not a single one.

And notice the marks on his nose as dicussed in the AR. He did not have a broken nose, which you would expect with a violent fall. He has bruising. Bruising indicates pressure, not a violent, fatal fall forwards.

bbm

The above bolded is it: when his forehead impacted either the opposite railing or the floor below (remember he also sustained a sagittally-oriented 7 1/4 inch midline frontal skull fracture - AR, page 9), it caused his head to jerk back with enough force to cause the subsequently fatal spinal cord injury.

Based upon the severity of the skull fracture, it sounds to me as if his head impacted whatever surface it struck with enough force to also cause his head to jerk backwards & to cause a severe contusion to his upper cervical spinal cord.

Link to the AR, so that the skull fracture can be substantiated:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

 

[Betty P]

Being dragged down the steps makes more sense to me than the railing because of the position of the abrasions along basically his spinal column.

Have you counted the abrasions and the number of steps to the landing?

Again, what would be the motivation for LE to lie about or cover up MS real cause of death?

 

[CDS22]

Being dragged down the steps makes more sense to me than the railing because of the position of the abrasions along basically his spinal column.

Have you counted the abrasions and the number of steps to the landing?

8 abrasions total. Six down the spine, all curving a little towards the left of the trunk. Then a seventh to the right of the 6th, almost like he was moved over a little bit. Then the eighth a little bit lower (not following the pattern), larger, and on the center of the spine.

Here's the link to the images of Max's injuries:

http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/shacknai, max_report.pdf

Someone on this forum told me there were 9 stairs but I can't find that post.

 

[CDS22]

bbm

The above bolded is it: when his forehead impacted either the opposite railing or the floor below (remember he also sustained a sagittally-oriented 7 1/4 inch midline frontal skull fracture - AR, page 9), it caused his head to jerk back with enough force to cause the subsequently fatal spinal cord injury.

Based upon the severity of the skull fracture, it sounds to me as if his head impacted whatever surface it struck with enough force to also cause his head to jerk backwards & to cause a severe contusion to his upper cervical spinal cord.

Link to the AR, so that the skull fracture can be substantiated:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

I understand what you're saying, but Dr. Peterson didn't believe he hit his head hard enough for it to bounce back with such force to cause a spinal contusion and neither do I. If he hit his head that hard, why isn't his nose broken? Remember, his nose had bruising, as did his clavicle. Wouldn't they have fractured?

 

[Boodles]

I have a very basic question about the "diagram" included in the powerpoint about Max's injury.

Did LE actually do any re-enactment to replicate the events they ended up documenting as their conclusion? Or did they just theorize and draw something they felt was possible? In other words, did they do any scientific validation to support each of the steps in the "falling" process?