Max's Search Warrants Released!!!! Discuss Max's Death here #2

[CDS22]

Your posts strongly suggest that you don't believe the medical conclusion, and definately think RZ did something to MS. Is everyone missing something? I read that RZ treated MS like her son, so why would she harm him? I think you( or someone else- I have to recheck) posted suspicisons that RZ did something to MS becasue she was angry where JS went? We heard he walked to the gym. Is this true, or did he go to DS place? Somewhere else? Any inside scoop?

.......So, you speculate that RZ could have done something to MS. I guess we don't know what went down. IF RZ did do something to MS, and threw him over the balcony.... he would have fallen straight down. She could not have propelled him with enough force to bring down the chandelier, then continue to fly across to lower staircase, then flat on floor.

Just wondering what your thoughts are, since both deaths are being questioned.

I believe the AR are accurate. I don't see a discrepancy between what the SW said, and the AR said. One doesn't necessarily negate the other.

I have never made a post about anyone being angry about anyone going to a gym.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

I'm not privvy to how the system works for sure, but I BELIEVE it's possible that anytime a child comes in injurred as critically as M was that day, that child services may be called in to just cross all the I's and T's. I think it could have just been a precautionary measure.

It's JMHO though.
fran

I agree fran. I've always thought it was standard procedure, so it doesn't surprise me at all that they were called.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

From reading the autopsy report -- and I am not any kind of medical expert, I got the impression that when Max landed, he landed head first, not face first, but head first and high on the forehead, so that it was the upper 1/2 or 1/3 of his forehead that took the brunt of the impact. I got this impression from the description of the bruising on his head (that's if I read it right) and the fact that there was no real damage to his face.

I think, just by putting the heel of my hand on the upper 1/3 of my forehead and pushing back, that such a scenario could very likely result in the spinal cord dislocation.

Again - that is just my speculation based on what the autopsy says.

Salem

ETA: I also think it was the scooter that brought the chandiler down, not Max. Having seen a few children go head over heels on bicycles, tricycles and scooters, I can see where Max might have held on to that scooter when he first hit the railing and started to go over, upending the scooter.

Very good observation Salem. I completely agree that could be how he landed.

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

Freak accidents can and do happen...

BIRMINGHAM, England – A seven-year-old British girl choked to death in a "chance in a million" accident after a small rubber ball bounced into her mouth, lodging in her throat.

Kiran Mir, from Birmingham, central England, was playing with a cheap rubber ball her mother, Shakeela Bibi, had bought her, the Birmingham Mail reported Friday.

"She was bouncing the ball between her hand and the floor. I suddenly heard Kiran cough and immediately looked towards her," Bibi said in a statement read out Thursday at a coroner's investigation into the March 1 death. "I immediately approached her and used one hand to smack her gently two or three times between her shoulder blades hoping for the ball to pop out."

Read more:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...-after-choking-on-rubber-ball-97319-29303607/

 

[elfie]

I can understand that somewhat. But if the scooter collided with the railing it seems the force of the sudden stop would repel Max's body over but not the scooter and there really doesn't seem to be an area long enough in the balcony area for him to pick up that amount of speed that would be necessary to be going that fast, imo. We see how wide of an area the scooter riders use when building up speed to make their jumps. Imo, there is just not enough space in that area to do so. Being lightweight it would not take much to stop the scooter, imo.

How tall is a razor scooter? Would most of the scooter be behind the enclosed banister area if he crashed into it?

In all the accident videos I have seen the person is thrown over the handle bars when they hit something solid that suddenly stops the scooter - bike-atv.. etc. and they have picked up quite a bit of speed when they do but those are mostly accidents that happen where the ground is level.

I know the scooter is durable but it is not that durable and is prone to get damaged just like anything else. If the scooter went over the balcony and collided with the chandelier it too would have cut marks and scratches imo and the only thing we have heard about it was on the first floor and he had already been told that is where he had to keep it.

How did he get the abrasions up and down his back? Most of his injuries were to his face and neck.

IMO

We really need a modeling program that takes into account scale, mass, gravity and velocity. I find it difficult to believe that LE does not access to such a program, if not directly through their own department, through the state or federal level.

A graphics depiction is not a substitute for an actual modeling. This would eliminate all implausible scenarios. Who knows ? Perhaps they did use one and the running hypothesis was the only model that remained. Too much info that we do not have access to still.

 

[elfie]

My son committed suicide by hanging. My daughter found him on her way to her bedroom,screamed and my husband ran up. They got him down (I'll spare you the details) and my husband started CPR .He continued until paramedics arrived ,about 5-7 minutes later .Adrenalin was pumping and he kept it up. BUT the paramedics and EMT's never took over .They didn't work on him at all,but ran with him to the ambulance.
I met them at the emergency room entrance ,since I was at my parents house closer to the hospital. What my daughter noticed,and I did not,was,they weren't giving him breathes in any way ,not even with an ambu bag. I just thought he was breathing on his own,but he was already gone.I don't know if they ever tried.Maybe they saw signs that he had been gone too long.
My husband assumed they didn't want to waste a minute at our house doing CPR,but wanted to get to the emergency room asap. Six years ago the closest hospital was 20 minutes away. Today there's one 5 minutes away. I try not to dwell on that stuff. I imagine Max's parents have similar "if only's".Doesn't bring them back,though.

I'm so sorry.

 

[elfie]

No other injuries to his spinal cord, and they did examine it. That's what's so bizarre about the accident. If he fell the way it's depicted in the police illustration (and they have his height ratio to the bannister all wrong), then he couldn't have had the clean angle (think diving or driving in a race car) to get a contusion that is fatal.

IMO

As I just posted up thread, I think LE or anyone that would be willing to help should use a modeling program that calculates for scale, mass, gravity and velocity in order to find the explanation that best fits the known information. At least this could afford the family a little closure.

 

[sorrell skye]

Most children are good children who just lack the experience and knowledge that comes with age. Children are not equipped to understand the long term consequences of some actions...including those that may be dangerous. I am sure we all can remember doing foolish things that could have gotten us hurt as children. I for one walked the roof, walked across the top of my swing set, climbed into the highest trees and jumped onto the roof from there and stood on the seat of my bicycle while riding. I was a "good" kid too...just did not understand my behavior could have deathly consequences.

ITA Stilettos.

When I was 6, my brother & I climbed the radio tower @ our father's radio station, because we thought it would be fun to climb to the top. Halfway up, our father came out & saw us & yelled for us to come down - he was scared out of his wits (understandably). Thank Goodness we didn't fall!

 

[elfie]

And lest we lose sight of the child who died, this from Max's maternal grandmother:





http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...s-death-reported-san-diego.html#ixzz1Yz30ktqQ


I just don't think a "good boy" who's "smart as a whip" would do something foolhardy.

He was absolutely adorable to boot. But being smart does not compensate for lack of experience (by default, taking into account his age).

 

[CDS22]

Freak accidents can and do happen...

BIRMINGHAM, England – A seven-year-old British girl choked to death in a "chance in a million" accident after a small rubber ball bounced into her mouth, lodging in her throat.

Kiran Mir, from Birmingham, central England, was playing with a cheap rubber ball her mother, Shakeela Bibi, had bought her, the Birmingham Mail reported Friday.

"She was bouncing the ball between her hand and the floor. I suddenly heard Kiran cough and immediately looked towards her," Bibi said in a statement read out Thursday at a coroner's investigation into the March 1 death. "I immediately approached her and used one hand to smack her gently two or three times between her shoulder blades hoping for the ball to pop out."

Read more:

http://www.birminghammail.net/news/...-after-choking-on-rubber-ball-97319-29303607/

Respectfully, there is a large difference between one bizarre mishap that was witnessed by a parent, than a series of bizarre incidents allegedly witnessed by no one while a child was in the care of a babysitter and her teenaged sister.

 

[CDS22]

He was absolutely adorable to boot. But being smart does not compensate for lack of experience (by default, taking into account his age).

His age makes it all the more unbelievable that he was able to do gymnastics, contortions, and Evel Kneivel-like stunts from the railing of a stairway while bringing down a chandelier, two balls, and uttering the word "Ocean" with an unplugged spinal cord that rendered him unable to breathe.

 

[SmoothOperator]

There is nothing proving that Rebecca lied giving different officers different Accts of the events that morning.. This is a false allegation and should be noted as such.. Confusing fact with fiction creates havoc as well as people not knowing what the truth is.. The truth is that there is nothing or no one that states Rebecca did anything nefarious or negligent, including lying or deceiving the officers of the events that morning.. Infact the affidavits prove quite the contrary that she infact gave Max CPR as is documented multiple times in the court documents.. Again nothing that states or even alludes to Rebecca doing anything but life saving measures for a little boy whom she loved.

 

[CDS22]

There is nothing proving that Rebecca lied giving different officers different Accts of the events that morning.. This is a false allegation and should be noted as such.. Confusing fact with fiction creates havoc as well as people not knowing what the truth is.. The truth is that there is nothing or no one that states Rebecca did anything nefarious or negligent, including lying or deceiving the officers of the events that morning.. Infact the affidavits prove quite the contrary that she infact gave Max CPR as is documented multiple times in the court documents.. Again nothing that states or even alludes to Rebecca doing anything but life saving measures for a little boy whom she loved.

I've linked both the SW and AR. Anyone can read both documents themselves and see that there are discrepancies between statements made to different officers.

 

[Betty P]

I've linked both the SW and AR. Anyone can read both documents themselves and see that there are discrepancies between statements made to different officers.

Well if you feel so strongly that there are discrepancies, why don't you summarize them using direct quotes and links?

 

[Rhyme & Reason]

Can anyone link me to where it says Max had a series of incidents? :waitasec:

 

[sorrell skye]

Just chiming in - I think it needs to be established once & for all that Max DID NOT weigh 45 lbs. I have no idea where the idea came from that he weighed 45 lbs., as that is incorrect.

According to the AR (page 8) he weighed 57 lbs.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

 

[Betty P]

His age makes it all the more unbelievable that he was able to do gymnastics, contortions, and Evel Kneivel-like stunts from the railing of a stairway while bringing down a chandelier, two balls, and uttering the word "Ocean" with an unplugged spinal cord that rendered him unable to breathe.

Apparently you've never raised children nor spent much time round them at that age. I recall a childhood friend of mine around that age who climbed a tree, then fell. She didn't try to break her fall and as a result, landed on her shoulder resulting in a broken collar bone. The height was only about 10 or 15 feet. We asked her why she didn't put her hands out to break her fall. Her answer was "I don't know, it happened so fast." Why was she climbing the tree? "I don't know, I just wanted to get a better view from up high". Had she landed in a slightly different position, she well could have ended up with an injury similar to MS.

Kids of that age do reckless things, whether they're smart or good or whatever.

 

[SmoothOperator]

It's been read and noted. There is nothing or no one stating Rebecca lied to officers giving different versions of the events..

 

[CDS22]

Well if you feel so strongly that there are discrepancies, why don't you summarize them using direct quotes and links?

It's directly quoted and linked a few pages back, as well as on the original Max death thread.

 

[CDS22]

Just chiming in - I think it needs to be established once & for all that Max DID NOT weigh 45 lbs. I have no idea where the idea came from that he weighed 45 lbs., as that is incorrect.

According to the AR (page 8) he weighed 57 lbs.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DctZGRjMy00ODVkLTk1YWItODAxZjAxMzE5OTVl&hl=en

57 lbs. still works with the formulas and scenarios given.