McCann vs. Ramsey Cases

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It appears a McCann tennis bag is missing. A bag big enough to carry a child.

So the person or persons who did this didn't bring their own equipment and counted on the family having what they needed?

Another similarity to the JonBenet case.

I hadn't heard this- was it in the papers or on the news?
I fear this is another case of a parent accidentally killing their child and getting away with it because people think a parent couldn't kill their child. Accidents happen- even horrible ones. Panic sets in- and the decision is made to make an accidental death look like a kidnapping/murder instead of just calling 911 and admitting what happened. In both cases, there were other kids to be considered. Lucrative careers. Standing in the community.
And once you make that phone call and say your child is missing (when you know they are dead) there is no turning back.
The difference here is that the McCann's were away on vacation. The R's were still at home.
 
imo, the McCann's made a mistake, we are all human, none of us are perfect, so while not absolving the McCann's from any responsibility, it's likely the abduction of their daughter was never on their radar?

It appears they were lulled into a false sense of security by the apparent exclusiveness of their holiday resort. This allowed a predator to stalk and abduct their daughter.

There are two possibilities: either a pedophile who knew the McCann's and Madeleine from the UK and their intended vacation schedule then travelled incognito to Portugual, or said pedophile was already resident in Portugual?

Of the two possibilities one is pre-planned the other may be random, a chance opportunity?

The resemblance between the Ramsey and McCann case is that JonBenet's death was staged to effect a failed or aborted abduction, whereas it appears Madeleine was successfully abducted, unlike JonBenet's corpse discovered wrapped in blankets in the basement. So here, given the nature of the abduction, it is possible, despite negative briefings from the police, that Madeleine is still alive? Assuming it was planned and not a random abduction then the odds increase that Madeleine is still alive, can I draw everyones attention to the german woman who recently escaped from a pedophile who had abducted her as a young girl, then kept her imprisoned in an underground cellar?

So in the absence of a body I reckon Madeleine's parents should continue to raise public awareness that Madeleine is still missing.

From a profiling perspective: if it was a random , chance abduction then why from three children select the eldest, who is heavier to carry and potentially may resist?

This may suggest that Madeleine knew her abductor, that her abductor targeted her individually, possibly travelling from the UK specifically to commit this crime?

So it appears Madeleine's abduction was not random but pre-planned, someone watched, worked out the parents likely schedule and planned an abduction accordingly? e.g. who walks into a holiday resort, then into a random apartment, finding a sleeping girl, picks her up and walks away into the night, knowing nobody will notice either the departure or arrival of Madeleine at her abductors final destination?

So either a member of staff at the holiday resort who had access to Madeleine or someone the McCann's already know, either directly or indirectly, planned the abduction of Madeleine? It was not a crime of impulse.

A random abduction theory in the McCann case, whilst possible, seems to dissolve when you review the facts. It seems more likely that Madeleine's abductor is known, albeit, indirectly by the parents, that Madeleine was deliberately targeted and her abduction deliberate, also that Madeleine's abductor considered the risk of being discovered as low e.g. suggesting long term planning?

imo Madeleine is still alive, and is being kept captive by a pedophile with direct links to the UK, who is aged 30-45, single, employed in a professional capacity, possibly working long hours, who cannot sustain adult relationships, will appear outwardly respectable, dress formally e.g. suits, be multi-lingual, be at ease in a beaureucratic environment, cross-border travel will be regular, possibly as a component of employment. Potentially may have attempted, and failed to adopt a child in a foreign jurisdiction? Is likely to hold a dual nationality passport, possibly currently residing in the non-uk locality?


.
 
imo, the McCann's made a mistake, we are all human, none of us are perfect, so while not absolving the McCann's from any responsibility, it's likely the abduction of their daughter was never on their radar?

It appears they were lulled into a false sense of security by the apparent exclusiveness of their holiday resort. This allowed a predator to stalk and abduct their daughter.

There are two possibilities: either a pedophile who knew the McCann's and Madeleine from the UK and their intended vacation schedule then travelled incognito to Portugual, or said pedophile was already resident in Portugual?

Of the two possibilities one is pre-planned the other may be random, a chance opportunity?

The resemblance between the Ramsey and McCann case is that JonBenet's death was staged to effect a failed or aborted abduction, whereas it appears Madeleine was successfully abducted, unlike JonBenet's corpse discovered wrapped in blankets in the basement. So here, given the nature of the abduction, it is possible, despite negative briefings from the police, that Madeleine is still alive? Assuming it was planned and not a random abduction then the odds increase that Madeleine is still alive, can I draw everyones attention to the german woman who recently escaped from a pedophile who had abducted her as a young girl, then kept her imprisoned in an underground cellar?

So in the absence of a body I reckon Madeleine's parents should continue to raise public awareness that Madeleine is still missing.

From a profiling perspective: if it was a random , chance abduction then why from three children select the eldest, who is heavier to carry and potentially may resist?

This may suggest that Madeleine knew her abductor, that her abductor targeted her individually, possibly travelling from the UK specifically to commit this crime?

So it appears Madeleine's abduction was not random but pre-planned, someone watched, worked out the parents likely schedule and planned an abduction accordingly? e.g. who walks into a holiday resort, then into a random apartment, finding a sleeping girl, picks her up and walks away into the night, knowing nobody will notice either the departure or arrival of Madeleine at her abductors final destination?

So either a member of staff at the holiday resort who had access to Madeleine or someone the McCann's already know, either directly or indirectly, planned the abduction of Madeleine? It was not a crime of impulse.

A random abduction theory in the McCann case, whilst possible, seems to dissolve when you review the facts. It seems more likely that Madeleine's abductor is known, albeit, indirectly by the parents, that Madeleine was deliberately targeted and her abduction deliberate, also that Madeleine's abductor considered the risk of being discovered as low e.g. suggesting long term planning?

imo Madeleine is still alive, and is being kept captive by a pedophile with direct links to the UK, who is aged 30-45, single, employed in a professional capacity, possibly working long hours, who cannot sustain adult relationships, will appear outwardly respectable, dress formally e.g. suits, be multi-lingual, be at ease in a beaureucratic environment, cross-border travel will be regular, possibly as a component of employment. Potentially may have attempted, and failed to adopt a child in a foreign jurisdiction? Is likely to hold a dual nationality passport, possibly currently residing in the non-uk locality?


.

Whatever happened with the clump of Madeleine's hair that was found in the trunk of the rental car? Did they decide that it got there innocently? Also, weren't they eating with other people...who could vouch for them? I have lost touch with this case...fill me in, if you know anything. TIA
 
Whatever happened with the clump of Madeleine's hair that was found in the trunk of the rental car? Did they decide that it got there innocently? Also, weren't they eating with other people...who could vouch for them? I have lost touch with this case...fill me in, if you know anything. TIA

Ames,

There is no hair, or deceased body fluids its all tabloid speculation based on inference from the presence of then unknown dna, and low copy number methodology.

Yes they were eating with other people, but there are apparent discrepancies in other peoples accounts of who was where when and who checked the McCann appartment and when etc, e.g. they took turns in checking? All explicable in terms of memory retention, and the turn of events?

The parents are professionals, there was no need for them to alert anyone, that night, if they were responsible for Madeleine's death, some other means could have been found.

imo this is an abduction case.
 
Ames,

There is no hair, or deceased body fluids its all tabloid speculation based on inference from the presence of then unknown dna, and low copy number methodology.

Yes they were eating with other people, but there are apparent discrepancies in other peoples accounts of who was where when and who checked the McCann appartment and when etc, e.g. they took turns in checking? All explicable in terms of memory retention, and the turn of events?

The parents are professionals, there was no need for them to alert anyone, that night, if they were responsible for Madeleine's death, some other means could have been found.

imo this is an abduction case.

Was the door unlocked...or do you think that someone knocked and Madeliene, being a child..and not knowing any better...opened it??
 
I don't know what to think. I was so close to thinking them totally innocent, until I heard that "tennis bag" story.
 
Was the door unlocked...or do you think that someone knocked and Madeliene, being a child..and not knowing any better...opened it??

Ames,

The door was unlocked ... but someone had to be watching to take advantage of the McCann's not being there.

It had to be planned, its not something that could be enacted at random since there is no guarantee of any outcome.

Also its not something you dream up over a few days then say just do it e.g. it was not a crime of impulse.

Sadly Madeliene's age suggests something about the psycho-sexual profile of her abductor, as pedophiles with sexual gratification in mind will normally target girls in the age range 8-12, so her abductor may be a mysoped pedophile which usually includes some form of stalking behaviour, and a connection between sexual arousal and fatal violence. This is why some profilers consider that Madeliene may already be dead?

.
 
I don't know what to think. I was so close to thinking them totally innocent, until I heard that "tennis bag" story.

SuperDave,

What tennis bag, according to the McCanns they never took said tennis bag with them at all. So why should any newspaper be suggesting it existed after Madeliene goes missing.

imo simply more tabloid spin ...
 
I know it isn't ALWAYS the case, but in most child abduction/murder cases, a body is found at some point. The usual pedo/murder uses the child for gratification and then discards the body, often not caring whether it will be found.
In cases where no body is ever found, there is just something that makes me suspicious. Natalee Holloway- definitely disposed of in a manner that prevented a body from being found. Ditto Etan Patz (remember him?). So Madeline McCann not turning up somewhere....
 
I know it isn't ALWAYS the case, but in most child abduction/murder cases, a body is found at some point. The usual pedo/murder uses the child for gratification and then discards the body, often not caring whether it will be found.
In cases where no body is ever found, there is just something that makes me suspicious. Natalee Holloway- definitely disposed of in a manner that prevented a body from being found. Ditto Etan Patz (remember him?). So Madeline McCann not turning up somewhere....

DeeDee249,

The publicity surrounding Madeline's disappearance makes those standard assumptions more difficult to form.

Consider one of these:

1. Madeline was abducted at random.
2. Madeline was abducted as a substitute daughter.
3. Madeline was abducted by a pedophile.

Only 1. does not appear to have a distinct motive, and its here that your gratification, discarding process is most likely to occur?

And 2. would explain why there is no body.

Also 3. is where the publicity makes the forming of assumptions more difficult, but Madeline's abductor appears fixated, since Madeline is so young, I'm assuming she was not randomly abducted, that it was premeditated and planned e.g. her abductor used a getaway vehicle, possibly even assisted by an accomplice?

This is why I think Madeline is still alive, being kept imprisoned somewhere. Also her abduction, given the non-randomness, and structured aspects, seems to me to reinforce the notion that Madeline's abductor is somehow linked to the UK and/or the McCanns themselves, her abductor seems to have had a good understanding of the complex layout, possibly spoke the language, and may have re-located to another country where they also speak that language. So a profile of someone with good language skills, at ease in cross-border travel, ability to observe and plan, suggest someone with moderate business skills, multi-lingual, middle-class in appearance, also they may be currently unemployed or of independent means?


.
 
DeeDee249,

The publicity surrounding Madeline's disappearance makes those standard assumptions more difficult to form.

Consider one of these:

1. Madeline was abducted at random.
2. Madeline was abducted as a substitute daughter.
3. Madeline was abducted by a pedophile.

Only 1. does not appear to have a distinct motive, and its here that your gratification, discarding process is most likely to occur?

And 2. would explain why there is no body.

Also 3. is where the publicity makes the forming of assumptions more difficult, but Madeline's abductor appears fixated, since Madeline is so young, I'm assuming she was not randomly abducted, that it was premeditated and planned e.g. her abductor used a getaway vehicle, possibly even assisted by an accomplice?

This is why I think Madeline is still alive, being kept imprisoned somewhere. Also her abduction, given the non-randomness, and structured aspects, seems to me to reinforce the notion that Madeline's abductor is somehow linked to the UK and/or the McCanns themselves, her abductor seems to have had a good understanding of the complex layout, possibly spoke the language, and may have re-located to another country where they also speak that language. So a profile of someone with good language skills, at ease in cross-border travel, ability to observe and plan, suggest someone with moderate business skills, multi-lingual, middle-class in appearance, also they may be currently unemployed or of independent means?


.


4. Madeline was not abducted at all.
 
It was reported the Tapas Nine held a secret meeting. I assume this was a strategy meeting. That is enough for me to assume the chance she was abducted is very small.

You only need one bit of evidence to figure out if somebody committed a crime. Maybe just one fingerprint. You only need one, just one, act of suspicious behavior by parents in a case like this and you have to assume they were involved.
 
4. Madeline was not abducted at all.

Rino,
Sure, thats the current conspiracy theory, with no evidence to support it other than police and tabloid spin!

It appears to me that Madeline has been abducted by a fixated pedophile, he may even have a criminal record precisely for assaulting girls in Madeline's age group?

If No. 4. were to turn out to be true then stand by for wall to wall media coverage.
 
It was reported the Tapas Nine held a secret meeting. I assume this was a strategy meeting. That is enough for me to assume the chance she was abducted is very small.

You only need one bit of evidence to figure out if somebody committed a crime. Maybe just one fingerprint. You only need one, just one, act of suspicious behavior by parents in a case like this and you have to assume they were involved.


Albert18,

How come someone reported upon a secret event, how does that work, were they actually a tenth person ?


.
 
Rino,
Sure, thats the current conspiracy theory, with no evidence to support it other than police and tabloid spin!

It appears to me that Madeline has been abducted by a fixated pedophile, he may even have a criminal record precisely for assaulting girls in Madeline's age group?

If No. 4. were to turn out to be true then stand by for wall to wall media coverage.
What appears to you cannot be backed up with any evidence.
 
Actually, none of the possibilities can be backed up by evidence. There is no evidence of an intruder in this case either.
 
Actually, none of the possibilities can be backed up by evidence. There is no evidence of an intruder in this case either.


DeeDee249,

Well there a missing child, does that count as evidence? Then there are witness statements that Madeline was in the apartment when it was checked at various intervals. Also there is a witness statement to the effect that someone was seen walking away from the apartment complex with a child.


There is no evidence of an intruder in this case either.
This and there being no body or staged evidence is what distinguishes it from the Ramsey case.

.
 
DeeDee249,

Well there a missing child, does that count as evidence?...

Yes, it is evidence the parents did something to her since she was in their care.

The lack of evidence points to the parents. That may be unfair but that is the only way we can protect children.
 
Rino,
4. Madeline was not abducted at all.
UK I don't understand this response. Maddie is missing, but where is there any physical evidence that she was taken alive by a stranger?
 

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