MD MD - Annie McCann, 16, Baltimore, 31 Oct 2008

[LinasK]

Ok - I get what you're saying. But does it strike anyone as odd that she went where she went to kill herself - if that's what she did? Where she was found is unusual for a suicide victim...IMO.

More unusual is drinking a bottle of Bactine. Seems like a painful way to kill yourself.
We use Rubbing Alcohol for disinfecting pierced ears. I hadn't heard of Bactine since I was a child, didn't even know they still made it. It was awful stuff, in the same realm as Tincture Merthiolate.

 

[TTF14]

More unusual is drinking a bottle of Bactine. Seems like a painful way to kill yourself.
We use Rubbing Alcohol for disinfecting pierced ears. I hadn't heard of Bactine since I was a child, didn't even know they still made it. It was awful stuff, in the same realm as Tincture Merthiolate.

She was only 16. Maybe she thought it could get her drunk.

 

[Niner]

I just saw this show too - 20/20 last night! I too have not heard of this case... so came here to search for Annie's case - I "knew" WS would have one!

I don't believe she committed suicide... That Dante person & Co. - I believe know more than they have said - considering Dante is now in jail for killing his girlfriend and taking her car. 20/20 never mentioned the phone calls to the drug dealers' place - so that was new to me in reading this thread. Wonder why they didn't explore that more? Also, I couldn't believe that the parents just received all the evidence and looked into her digital camera. Too bad she didn't take pictures that day - all that were on their were pictures of her dog.

Well, maybe the 20/20 show will bring some resolution to this case...

:rose: RIP ANNIE! :rose:

 

[Trident]

I never heard of this case until yesterday - 20/20. My first thought was carjacked, robbed, raped and murdered. I don't believe she committed suicide, I think slapping that label on the case made it easier for Baltimore LE. I was really struck by the policeman/detective/whatever from homicide that seemed so smug. Case closed. Yeah, right. I'm glad this is coming back into public focus.

:cow:

 

[TTF14]

I never heard of this case until yesterday - 20/20. My first thought was carjacked, robbed, raped and murdered. I don't believe she committed suicide, I think slapping that label on the case made it easier for Baltimore LE. I was really struck by the policeman/detective/whatever from homicide that seemed so smug. Case closed. Yeah, right. I'm glad this is coming back into public focus.

:cow:

I'd like to know if any of money was found inside the car. Maybe someone who has followed the case longer than yesterday can answer? Lidocaine seems like a ridiculous way to suicide, but also seems like a weird way to murder.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Trident]

I'd like to know if any of money was found inside the car. Maybe someone who has followed the case longer than yesterday can answer? Lidocaine seems like a ridiculous way to suicide, but also seems like a weird way to murder.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I believe Annie was a good student, probably to intelligent to commit suicide with Bactine. However, I wonder if the same can be said for anyone who may have harmed her.

:cow:

 

[LinasK]

I never heard of this case until yesterday - 20/20. My first thought was carjacked, robbed, raped and murdered. I don't believe she committed suicide, I think slapping that label on the case made it easier for Baltimore LE. I was really struck by the policeman/detective/whatever from homicide that seemed so smug. Case closed. Yeah, right. I'm glad this is coming back into public focus.

:cow:

That's what I thought at first too, but there's no evidence of carjack or sexual assault. Only that the black guy Dante & his buddies stole her car. What swayed me toward suicide were the multiple suicide notes, no evidence of rape, and her going to the bakery. Plus the bottle of Bactine was one from her own home. If someone wanted to premeditate killing her by forcing her to drink it, they would've had to have known about the Bactine and her routines. Most carjackers would've used a gun/knive/baseball bat, tree branch or some other kind of weapon- even if she'd been strangled or suffocated I'd believe murder. But poisoners are usually ones who do it over a period of time- like when money or another sexual partner is the object.
Also, several of her friends report she was a thin "sheltered" girl, possibly prone to anorexia or depression, which would make it easier for her to die with just one bottle of Bactine. I think this family was not the ideal one when you look behind closed doors. Money doesn't always buy happiness.

 

[LinasK]

I believe Annie was a good student, probably to intelligent to commit suicide with Bactine. However, I wonder if the same can be said for anyone who may have harmed her.

:cow:

Intelligent people commit suicide by all sorts of means- aspirin overdose, hanging themselves, drowning, car crashes, gunshots... who knows what's the least painful method, but Bactine is not one way I'd chose!

 

[sallye818]

Questions I have about Annie's case: (I too saw the 20/20 episode and was reeled in):

1) What do you guys make of the funeral director's opinion that Annie had trauma to her body and signs of sexual assault?

2) What happened to the $1000 cash Annie took from home?

3) How could another person FORCE someone to drink a bottle of Bactine? (I do recall that she had alcohol in her system, tho only a small amount, I think,--if it were mixed as a "cocktail" surely she would've tasted it?)

Haven't yet formed an opinion on whether I believe homicide or suicide.

 

[Trident]

Questions I have about Annie's case: (I too saw the 20/20 episode and was reeled in):

1) What do you guys make of the funeral director's opinion that Annie had trauma to her body and signs of sexual assault?

2) What happened to the $1000 cash Annie took from home?

3) How could another person FORCE someone to drink a bottle of Bactine? (I do recall that she had alcohol in her system, tho only a small amount, I think,--if it were mixed as a "cocktail" surely she would've tasted it?)

Haven't yet formed an opinion on whether I believe homicide or suicide.

For question #1, I believe the funeral director, etc., are in a good position to know trauma/sexual assault when they see it, having had a lot of experience with ALL kinds of trauma and death. I believe they knew what they were talking about.

I, too, wonder what happened to the cash Annie took from home. I have a good idea, but. . .

I think your idea about a "cocktail" laced with Bactine is the best I've heard so far.

I question why LE just let the joy riders, the ones who supposedly pushed Annie's dead body out of the car by a dumpster, off the hook so easily. This makes absolutely NO sense to me. What does this say about those punks who stole the car and illegally disposed of a dead body. Then, of course, there is Dante? who killed his GF and stole her car. Has anyone looked SERIOUSLY at these guys?

Then I say to myself, its Baltimore.

:cow:

 

[IDK]

That's what I thought at first too, but there's no evidence of carjack or sexual assault. Only that the black guy Dante & his buddies stole her car. What swayed me toward suicide were the multiple suicide notes, no evidence of rape, and her going to the bakery. Plus the bottle of Bactine was one from her own home. If someone wanted to premeditate killing her by forcing her to drink it, they would've had to have known about the Bactine and her routines. Most carjackers would've used a gun/knive/baseball bat, tree branch or some other kind of weapon- even if she'd been strangled or suffocated I'd believe murder. But poisoners are usually ones who do it over a period of time- like when money or another sexual partner is the object.
Also, several of her friends report she was a thin "sheltered" girl, possibly prone to anorexia or depression, which would make it easier for her to die with just one bottle of Bactine. I think this family was not the ideal one when you look behind closed doors. Money doesn't always buy happiness.

I haven't watched the 20/20 special but have read the news articles and website set up by her parents. Apparently staff at the funeral home saw evidence that made them believe Annie had been beaten and raped. Was her rape kit ever completed? The last I read the parents were never given results of the rape kit. I think the way Annie"s parents and Anniess remains have been treated is unconscionable. Her bodily organs were discarded/lost?! Who treats a potential homicide victim (any person!) that way. That's just my opinion.

 

[LinasK]

I haven't watched the 20/20 special but have read the news articles and website set up by her parents. Apparently staff at the funeral home saw evidence that made them believe Annie had been beaten and raped. Was her rape kit ever completed? The last I read the parents were never given results of the rape kit. I think the way Annie"s parents and Anniess remains have been treated is unconscionable. Her bodily organs were discarded/lost?! Who treats a potential homicide victim (any person!) that way. That's just my opinion.

BBM. That was in the special, but they don't have medical training to detect if the damage was sexual assault or some post-mortem destruction of the body. I don't know what the results of any rape kit were offhand. I agree about the treatment of the body.

 

[IDK]

"In response to Downey's letter, Grassley wrote a letter to the FBI and the Baltimore Police, in which he asked how the police proved the Bactine-related overdose. He also asked why Annie's rape kit hasn't been given to Annie's parents despite their multiple requests."

"In 2013, police commissioner Anthony Batts issued a re-investigation of the cold case. However, despite the promise of a thorough investigation, the Washington Post writes that, "...the McCann's soon realized that none of the pertinent witnesses were being contacted and evidence was not only ignored, it was lost: Annie’s computer hard drive was lost, the McCanns were told, much as Annie’s heart and brain had somehow been lost previously by the state medical examiner." :

http://heavy.com/news/2016/07/annie-mccann-death-2020-abc-news-murder-suicide-photos-pics/5/

Horribly sloppy police work, or something else?

 

[IDK]

It has been 8 years since Annie's disappearance and death.
Some new information has come to light and her parents met yesterday with the Fairfax County Commonwealth's Attorney.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nie-mccanns-death-by-bactine-keeps-unfolding/

From the article:

"Because of the unrelenting pressure exerted by the still grieving parents, new information and new developments continue to unfold, enhancing the parents’ belief that someone fatally poisoned their daughter, possibly human traffickers."

"Documents released Friday by Sen. Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) show that Baltimore police never asked Bayer, the maker of Bactine, if the lidocaine contained in a five ounce bottle would be lethal, either in 2008 or when they revisited the case in 2013. Bayer’s internal calculations showed it would take about three full bottles of Bactine to kill a 110-pound girl. At the McCanns’ request, Grassley began asking questions about Annie’s case to Baltimore police, Bayer and the FBI earlier this year."

"The man who embalmed Annie’s body three days after it was found said Saturday she had suffered severe, distinctive damage to her rectum that he has never seen in thousands of bodies before or since. He and another funeral home employee have always felt Annie was sodomized, though they came forward only recently. Two experienced pathologists refute that, saying that muscles relax after death, but the embalmer said the damage to Annie was far beyond that stage."

"Autopsy photos released to the family last year appear to show that Annie suffered a number of injuries to her face, though Baltimore police said in 2009 that there was no trauma on her body. The injuries do not appear to be fatal, but they raise questions about what happened to her in the time between when she vanished from the Groveton section of eastern Fairfax County and when she was discovered sprawled face down near a dumpster at the Perkins Homes near Pratt Street in Baltimore."

Look at the photo in the article and you can see for yourself. There appear to be bruises, scrapes and a scabbed area.

"Other documents recently released by Grassley show that in 2013 the FBI reviewed the Baltimore police case file and criticized the investigation because “Information regarding Annie’s background and her life situation prior to her death is lacking,” making it “extremely difficult, if not impossible, to conduct a complete analysis.” Several other blocks of text from the FBI’s review were redacted, and though Grassley demanded last month that the FBI provide him the unredacted documents by last week, the FBI did not."

"The McCanns were slightly hopeful after the meeting. “It’s been eight years of living hell,” said Mary Jane McCann, “because you’re frozen in time.” Dan McCann added, the investigation has left us in an “ungodly limbo. We know we’ll never stop hurting. We know we’ll never stop looking for the truth.”"

 

[Truthful Lies]

I apologize for how graphic my comment is going to be.... (I do work in post-mortem and can verify with Tricia if needed). There have been cases where a young person has a permananently dialated anus from repeated insertion of larger objects (in the case I know about, sexual gratification). So it's very possible to have that without trauma. I apologize and am not insinuating anything at all. Edited to add: the family of the decedent I'm mentioning had no idea of those proclivities.

Also from the Washington Post article linked above:

"Baltimore police and the FBI both acknowledged receiving the Grassley letters Monday. The FBI declined to comment further. Baltimore police spokesman T.J. Smith said, “There’s no indication of any type of situation where the young lady was murdered. All the evidence pointed away from murder and any type of sexual assault. We got the letter and we will respond.”

This quote is infuriating. It doesn't sound as if Baltimore police have any intention of looking at the case with fresh eyes or an open mind. They've made up their minds, and that's it.
On Annies' parents website, they have provided more details about what the funeral home staff noticed in regards to the possibility of sexual assault:
https://medium.com/@maryjaneanddanmccann/the-color-of-puke-4284f44330d5#.37ngq4334
*warning, somewhat graphic content*
"In November 2015, we got another horrible shock. In a long letter to Senator Chuck Grassley, pleading that authorities investigate Annie’s murder, the funeral home director for Annie’s funeral noted, “Our staff at the funeral home always believed that Annie was raped (sodomized) and beaten…”

We were stunned. We called the funeral home director. “We know why you believe Annie was beaten, Diana,” we said. “But what makes you say she was sodomized?” We got the answer we half-expected and completely feared. Haltingly, struggling to find the least painful words, Diana said, “Annie’s…rear end…was…really…really…open…”
We called the embalmer, the man who had noted that Annie’s heart and brain had not been returned to her body. Seven years on, the poor man didn’t miss a beat. He still had hideous recall. He shared the funeral home director’s opinion. And he added another detail, an insider’s detail. It seems the “A/V plug” — sometimes used to block leakage of body fluids; the “A” stands for anal — didn’t fit Annie’s rear end, he had to use extra “packing.” He said he sees that only rarely, and then only with extremely elderly decedents.
And then we went back to the medical examiner’s crude photographs. For the first time, we studied our dead daughter’s rear end. And we understood."

 

[IDK]

I apologize for how graphic my comment is going to be.... (I do work in post-mortem and can verify with Tricia if needed). There have been cases where a young person has a permananently dialated anus from repeated insertion of larger objects (in the case I know about, sexual gratification). So it's very possible to have that without trauma. I apologize and am not insinuating anything at all. Edited to add: the family of the decedent I'm mentioning had no idea of those proclivities.

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate your experience. However the article seems to insinuate that there was actual damage to the area, not just dilation. I don't know if they mean abrasions, scrapes or whatever. I guess due to the delicacy of the topic, they did not elaborate. At least that is my take on it, anyway.

 

[belimom]

FYI, Annie McCann went to the same middle school and high school as Hannah Graham -- the same ones my kids go to. It's a lot for one community, although different neighborhoods.

 

[IDK]

FYI, Annie McCann went to the same middle school and high school as Hannah Graham -- the same ones my kids go to. It's a lot for one community, although different neighborhoods.

Wow, I didn't realize they both had gone to the same school. Two terrible tragedies. RIP Annie and Hannah.

 

[Koshka]

The parents have asked the governor to intervene and have the state police take over the case. Read the entire article; I did and I can see why they were not satisfied with the Baltimore PD conclusion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ov-hogan-to-intervene/?utm_term=.a8d63b7e7fd9

 

[xpiggie]

This case has been haunting me for years and I always check back in to see if there are any new developments.

I have a bunch of feelings about this. The thing that resounds with me the most is the fact that her parents seem oblivious to the personal issues she was suffering at home. That's nothing short of tragic to me, that she would have had lived those years as the last of her life. There's a photo floating around of her, purportedly the last one taken of her alive, and she looks very thin and her hair is also thinning.

I wonder what her home life was like. I really think her parents were completely controlling, the more I hear them and her classmates talk. I did something similar as a sixteen-year-old. I was unsure if I wanted to commit suicide or not, but figured running away would be the first step. My parents were extraordinarily controlling, my life was empty, and I was alone. Luckily, I changed my mind and made it through that first night, but it also could have gone either way. If you had talked to my parents - even now if you talk to my parents - they would tell you that I had been a happy kid. It continues to bother me as her parents paint her as "happy go-lucky" when she was, in her notes and actions, entirely not. Red flag.

There's still not solid sources saying if the money she had on her was recovered or not. While Bactine is a very strange way to commit suicide, think for a moment that you're a kid, feeling trapped at home, just having run away, lost or spent all your money, and prone to suicidal ideations. If you were suicidal at that point in time, there would be very few options to act on it.

Bactine has a label on it that says to not drink it, and to call Poison Control if you do. There are various reports, ranging from it taking 'three bottles' to be fatal or less than one bottle. (Keep in mind, Annie also was underweight and anorexia interferes with your health tremendously.) That's too close for me to discount suicide. She suffered from suicidal ideation, as posed by her notes. Suicide isn't a binary - it doesn't just go away one day and be gone for good. It comes back, often when you're at your worst. Such as, alone and broke in a strange city.