MD MD - Crownsville, 3 Males, UP2335, UP2336, UP4835, @state hospital, 1967 & 1972

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

So glad to see a thread exists for these poor souls, whose lives on this dimension were marked by indignity and suffering. Who can say what brutality they endured under the system, as it existed back then? Reminds me way too much of the Tuskegee study...

Side note; places like this were almost always designated for poor blacks who'd been sentenced there, instead of a traditional prison setting, for various misdeeds of a petty nature... or, simply for the "crime" of homelessness (i.e. vagrancy laws). These men and women were the victims of a bureaucracy that wished to deny the humanity of indigent African-Americans at the time.

There was always a very separate system/hospitals in place for treating whites deemed "mentally ill" esp. if one was from a middle-class background. In these cases, a physician would prescribe a few pills, and even recommend a trip to the beach (it was thought that the air was bad in cities and made people lose it)... Whole different mentality and a whole different era. I am concerned by the state of mental health care today in this nation, but I am glad we have closed that dark chapter where we were performing unethical experiments on humans deemed inferior in this country.

 

[carbuff]

Updated links, in chronological order

#1 Unidentified Person Case
#2 Unidentified Person Case
#3 Unidentified Person Case

 

[BillieL]

I have no knowledge of how the mentally ill were treated in the US - undoubtably the non whites were subjected to much worse treatment than the whites. However, the mentally ill have always been a group that has been very vulnerable to abuse no matter which race you belonged to. Here in Sweden we hade medical experiments carried out on the mentally ill until the early seventies. A disgrace for this country.

I am not surprised if no records were found in this case - or even looked for. The mentally ill has always been a group that has been discriminated against and treated like they were not even humans.

 

[madamx]

These 3 men had to be part of the facility. They prob were committed YEARS prior and had no family and nobody to notice that they went missing. All around sad.

 

[madamx]

http://darkroom.baltimoresun.com/2015/01/crownsville-state-hospital/#1

I noticed there are comments on this link above of people that were there and also lived near there and even hired people from the facility. I wonder if any of those people ever heard rumors or knew of these 3 unidenitfied people found on the grounds. Someone had to have heard something.

 

[carbuff]

One of the Namus case files (Unidentified Person Case) includes this note:

"
Circumstance Notes
Central Records Division unable to locate MSP report as of 07-19-2012."

I assume MSP must mean Maryland State Police?

 

[Goecke]

Bumping

 

[R. Towle]

This one is baffling, you read it and you want to scream out 'they were patients murdered by doctors' but.... Then I thought about it a little more. Just a few questions, who found the bodies? And who called the police to report them?
If they were indeed victims of this atrocious system and the hospital reported these bodies... why?
My point being is you've managed to cover up many thousands of deaths and buried 1200 bodies (if not thousands more) with little to no record. So why on earth would you not do that with these three?
Now I'm not saying that the hospital has nothing to do with this but I'm struggling to see the logic or reason behind reporting these particular three patients only to deny that they were ever patients there.

 

[madamx]

This one is baffling, you read it and you want to scream out 'they were patients murdered by doctors' but.... Then I thought about it a little more. Just a few questions, who found the bodies? And who called the police to report them?
If they were indeed victims of this atrocious system and the hospital reported these bodies... why?
My point being is you've managed to cover up many thousands of deaths and buried 1200 bodies (if not thousands more) with little to no record. So why on earth would you not do that with these three?
Now I'm not saying that the hospital has nothing to do with this but I'm struggling to see the logic or reason behind reporting these particular three patients only to deny that they were ever patients there.

I know the whole thing sounds really odd and suspicious..
Unless an employee (with a conscience) called them in to have the hospital investigated. then the higher ups were the ones that had to answer to it and denied it all.. I just cant think of anything else..

 

[R. Towle]

Well there's an interesting theory Madamx, I didn't even think about that!! I think that is definitely plausible.

I know the whole thing sounds really odd and suspicious..
Unless an employee (with a conscience) called them in to have the hospital investigated. then the higher ups were the ones that had to answer to it and denied it all.. I just cant think of anything else..

 

[madamx]

Today March 10 marks 48 years that one of these men was found on the hospital grounds.


2152UMMD - Unidentified Male

Date of Discovery: March 10, 1972
Location of Discovery: Crownsville, Anne Arundel County,
Estimated Date of Death: Months Prior
State of Remains: Not recognizable - Partial skeletal remains only
Cause of Death: Unknown

Physical Description
Estimated Age: 35-60 Years old
Race: Unsure
Gender: Male
Height: 5'6", Estimated
Weight: 160, Estimated
Hair Color: Unknown
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Short and stocky build. Advanced periodontal disease; Possible prior head injury with brain surgery.

Identifiers
Dentals: Available. Several teeth missing. Advanced periodontal disease.
Fingerprints: Not Available
DNA: Not Available

Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: 1. Olive "Marsten" brand trousers 50 cotton/50 poly size 38 waist 2. "Hanes" brand jockey underwear size 42 3. Checkered yellow and blue "Marsten" brand shirt size M, t-shirt
Jewelry: Unknown
Additional Personal Items: Unknown

Circumstances of Discovery
The victim's skeletal remains were located on the Crownsville State Hospital grounds at 1520 Crownsville Road.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

I don't see William Henry Ellis suggested yet but he fits all the known stats.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[madamx]

I don't see William Henry Ellis suggested yet but he fits all the known stats.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

William sounds pretty good and at skeletal remains it would be hard to see any tattoo..

 

[Richard]

I cannot comment from personal knowledge about the day to day operations of the hospital(s) in Crownsville, Maryland in the years 1967 to 1972. However, I do know that in later years (mid 1990s), they had become in some ways just "turn around" places with revolving doors for people with various mental and emotional problems.

In early years, people would be committed indefinitely to a Mental Hospital for various reasons. And there are instances where some inmates/patients spent their lives inside them. Later, many institutions were closed, consolidated, or "reformed" and significant restrictions and mandatory regulations were signed into law.

Such restrictions mean that a person can only be kept for observation for between 3 and 7 days until they are "no longer a threat to themselves or others". During their stay, they are kept on sedatives or calming drugs and then are often released on their own with a small bottle of medication and maybe a written recommendation to see a mental health counselor. Many return in short order. A subsequent re-admission might result in a longer stay.

Often patients are brought in wearing few clothes - or clothes that are soiled, torn, or unsuitable for wear. When released, they are often wearing socks and underwear - and possibly other items - marked with the hospital name. Usually, when in the hospital as patients, they wear pajamas, robes, and slippers.

These institutions are (and probably were back then) places where patients arrive and depart daily. The usual practice for releasing a patient is to get a family member to come and get them, or to at least say that they will take them in. But often the patient is homeless or without close relatives in the area. If released on their on recognizance, it is quite possible that these poor souls could have simply begun to wander around, not knowing where to go, but staying near the only home they had known.

Would there be hospital records on these men somewhere? Probably. But HIPA regulations would prevent anyone from viewing them. And I doubt that there would be much in them which would help with any identification.

Most of these institutions which date back to the 19th century have cemeteries associated with their grounds. What records and markers might exist is anybody's guess.

 

[madamx]

I cannot comment from personal knowledge about the day to day operations of the hospital(s) in Crownsville, Maryland in the years 1967 to 1972. However, I do know that in later years (mid 1990s), they had become in some ways just "turn around" places with revolving doors for people with various mental and emotional problems.

In early years, people would be committed indefinitely to a Mental Hospital for various reasons. And there are instances where some inmates/patients spent their lives inside them. Later, many institutions were closed, consolidated, or "reformed" and significant restrictions and mandatory regulations were signed into law.

Such restrictions mean that a person can only be kept for observation for between 3 and 7 days until they are "no longer a threat to themselves or others". During their stay, they are kept on sedatives or calming drugs and then are often released on their own with a small bottle of medication and maybe a written recommendation to see a mental health counselor. Many return in short order. A subsequent re-admission might result in a longer stay.

Often patients are brought in wearing few clothes - or clothes that are soiled, torn, or unsuitable for wear. When released, they are often wearing socks and underwear - and possibly other items - marked with the hospital name. Usually, when in the hospital as patients, they wear pajamas, robes, and slippers.

These institutions are (and probably were back then) places where patients arrive and depart daily. The usual practice for releasing a patient is to get a family member to come and get them, or to at least say that they will take them in. But often the patient is homeless or without close relatives in the area. If released on their on recognizance, it is quite possible that these poor souls could have simply begun to wander around, not knowing where to go, but staying near the only home they had known.

Would there be hospital records on these men somewhere? Probably. But HIPA regulations would prevent anyone from viewing them. And I doubt that there would be much in them which would help with any identification.

Most of these institutions which date back to the 19th century have cemeteries associated with their grounds. What records and markers might exist is anybody's guess.

Oh Richard thank you for all this information it’s very interesting. I am posting a snip below of a piece of
what you wrote:


Often patients are brought in wearing few clothes - or clothes that are soiled, torn, or unsuitable for wear. When released, they are often wearing socks and underwear - and possibly other items - marked with the hospital name. Usually, when in the hospital as patients, they wear pajamas, robes, and slippers.

So when they are released they have regular clothing but the labels have the Hospital or Institution name. Or are they written on the clothing or would it just be initials. I was just asking because I have noticed that there have been many UIDs that I have seen that have written initials on their clothing or names on their clothing. I never realized hospitals did that.

Thanks again for this post!

 

[madamx]

Crownsville Hospital Center

 

[madamx]

Tragic chapter of Crownsville State Hospital's legacy

 

[Richard]

...So when they are released they have regular clothing but the labels have the Hospital or Institution name. Or are they written on the clothing or would it just be initials. I was just asking because I have noticed that there have been many UIDs that I have seen that have written initials on their clothing or names on their clothing. I never realized hospitals did that...

Hospital issued white socks and underwear would be marked clearly as to the name of the hospital, either stamped or stenciled.

Other clothing such as pajamas, towels, robes, shirts, trousers, jackets, etc. might also be marked in the same manner. Each different institution would have had their own policy and procedure for this, which might have changed from time to time.

 

[Goecke]

I was searching for this thread... May as well bump it while I'm here

 

[Richard]

Crownsville Hospital, Maryland. More photos at links below.

LINK:

Crownsville State Hospital Photos and Premium High Res Pictures - Getty Images

Find Crownsville State Hospital stock photos and editorial news pictures from Getty Images. Select from premium Crownsville State Hospital of the highest quality.

www.gettyimages.com

Crownsville Hospital Center

This former asylum for Black Americans is haunted by its history of violence and racism.

www.atlasobscura.com

A Brief History of the Crownsville State Hospital in Maryland

Read the strange and disturbing history of this former asylum in suburban Maryland.

theculturetrip.com