MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #3 *INDICTMENT*

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Federal law, state law, county, then city law BUT city law can be more restrictive and in that way " trump" state law. Hope that makes sense.
 
katydid23 said:
IF they were just treated as 'suspects' in a death that would be fine. But they have already been charged with the crime, and without sufficient cause, imo. So that is the problem that I have with it.

I am sorry that you and your family had to deal with a couple of psychos that terrorized you. That is awful. But I do believe that is a very rare occurrence. Especially in modern times.

As for Rice, we do not know all of the details. There must have been some extenuating circumstances or mitigating evidence which gave some balance.

The SA did not charge Rice with murder. So I do not see how his troubles with his temper and ex wife have anything to do with this case.
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He was in close proximity to the victim, specifically to his upper back and neck, and has a long history of violent anger problems. So whatever he's been arrested for, that's a good enough reason for me to be concerned about his potential role in this.

Re "very rare occurrence" - no, it isn't. It certainly isn't in Baltimore, more to the point.

And why "must there" be extenuating circumstances, for a drunk with a gun threatening people for hours in front of police, for them to let him walk away? Do you really think there's no such thing as cronyism, cops protecting cops from consequences? Why must a woman who is threatened with harm in her own home by an armed man have to have contributed to his rage in people's minds?

If he was just another case posted on this forum, and not a cop, I wonder how many would assume "extenuating circumstances" for him terrorising that family as he did. Imagine any other man doing all that, having an armed stand off with cops, and the cops let him literally walk away.

Cops are supposed to be above that sort of thing, so I can see why people might give them the benefit. But reality is, not all of them are above it.

Bringing it back to Gray - there's a witness who heard Gray yelling for the cops to get off his back, and that he was in pain. The cop kneeling in direct proximity to Gray's neck is Officer DV up there. A news report has video close-ups which show Gray's legs being released from over his back -- where another witness said they were, folded up against his back "like a pretzel".

And in this particular case, I am not very inclined to automatically assume all of the witnesses are lying just because police are being accused.
 
Ausgirl said:
He was in close proximity to the victim, specifically to his upper back and neck, and has a long history of violent anger problems. So whatever he's been arrested for, that's a good enough reason for me to be concerned about his potential role in this.

Re "very rare occurrence" - no, it isn't. It certainly isn't in Baltimore, more to the point.

And why "must there" be extenuating circumstances, for a drunk with a gun threatening people for hours in front of police, for them to let him walk away? Do you really think there's no such thing as cronyism, cops protecting cops from consequences? Why must a woman who is threatened with harm in her own home by an armed man have to have contributed to his rage in people's minds?

If he was just another case posted on this forum, and not a cop, I wonder how many would assume "extenuating circumstances" for him terrorising that family as he did. Imagine any other man doing all that, having an armed stand off with cops, and the cops let him literally walk away.

Cops are supposed to be above that sort of thing, so I can see why people might give them the benefit. But reality is, not all of them are above it.

Bringing it back to Gray - there's a witness who heard Gray yelling for the cops to get off his back, and that he was in pain. The cop kneeling in direct proximity to Gray's neck is Officer DV up there. A news report has video close-ups which show Gray's legs being released from over his back -- where another witness said they were, folded up against his back "like a pretzel".

And in this particular case, I am not very inclined to automatically assume all of the witnesses are lying just because police are being accused.
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There were no outward signs of injury on FG. Seems like there would be if his neck got stomped on.

Not to mention that we saw the video of him and his legs were not folded up against his back--he was in a leg lace.

Anyways, none of this matters because the SA said what happened to cause his death happened in the van
 
and yet with all this 'evidence' that Gray was presumably injured during the original arrest the SA did NOT charge those officers with murder. It just isn't even an issue according to the charges themselves...
 
Ausgirl said:
Cops are supposed to be above that sort of thing, so I can see why people might give them the benefit. But reality is, not all of them are above it.
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RSBM

IMHO, Cops are in a position of authority, so I am LESS inclined to give the benefit of the doubt when one of them is a violent repeat offender. They should be held to HIGHER standards than Average Joe Schmoe, not lower.
 
SStarr33 said:
There were no outward signs of injury on FG. Seems like there would be if his neck got stomped on.

Not to mention that we saw the video of him and his legs were not folded up against his back--he was in a leg lace.

Anyways, none of this matters because the SA said what happened to cause his death happened in the van
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He was fatally injured in the van. That doesn't mean he wasn't initially injured during the arrest.

No-one said his neck got "stomped on". It doesn't take a stomping for someone to fracture their neck (especially if they've had lead exposure, which Gray had - it causes bones to brittle). As I've posted before, there's a reason car accident victims and the like are immobolised in case of neck trauma. You can have a fractured neck and walk well enough (though Gray wasn't walking well) and talk (or scream in pain, like Gray), but it if you move a person with a fractured neck the wrong way, jostle them at the wrong angle, you can cause the bones to sever the spinal column.

The video I saw, a close up of the arrest scene, clearly shows at least one of his legs being released from somewhere over his back and falling down from that position. I will post this news item when I find the link again.
 
I do feel whatever the injury, it was exacerbated in the van. I don't think it happened in the van. I think the prosecution is mistaken in that regard but that's JMO.
 
Putting aside personal issues of LE involved, has it been reported that any have had prior complaints lodged against them as to their performance on the job. Well, the 6, we know SA investigator has had a problem and demoted.

OT-A friend of mine living in California, originally from Baltimore was planning a visit when things got unruly. Her hotel gladly changed her dates, airline changed dates, but charged her a $200.00 resched fee. Today airline finally reversed that charge.

OT II-I mean no disrespect, but every time I come to this thread in my mind I hear Curtis Mayfield's Freddie's Dead. Part of it:
Everybody's misused him
Ripped him up and abused him
Another junkie plan
Pushin' dope for the man
 
Tawny said:
I do feel whatever the injury, it was exacerbated in the van. I don't think it happened in the van. I think the prosecution is mistaken in that regard but that's JMO.
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That seems likely. The bike cops may have seen Freddie "Speedy Gonzales" Gray in flee-mode in prior encounters before viewing his final duck-and-run. He could have injured himself in a fall or collision during his flight that was outside the pursuing officers' view. If so, once FG was captured the officers would have no reason to believe somehow he'd seriously injured himself, especially when all he originally asked for iirc was an inhaler. I imagine they were all out of breath at the time, so FG asking for an inhaler probably didn't seem alarming. Ditto FG's refusal to walk to the van likely seemed like malingering or passive aggression from an experienced arrestee wanting to make things as hard as possible for the cops. Bottom line, FG may have injured himself during his panicked flight, but the cops would have no visible reason to believe him and informed reasons to disbelieve him imo.
 
Off-job violence isn't relevant to on-job performance? He was violent to people he claimed to care about, how do we expect he treats strangers he believes are criminals?
 
And if there's any doubt about there about there being an atmosphere of dense cronyism, lies and cover-up mentality in BPD.. here's Joe Crystal again, on his own experiences as an honest cop there, very worth watching:

[video=youtube;2XTNMOztwM0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XTNMOztwM0[/video]
.
 
The most senior Baltimore police officer charged over the death of Freddie Gray used his position to order the arrest of a man as part of a personal dispute just two weeks before the fatal incident, prompting an internal inquiry by Baltimore police department.

During an erratic late-night episode in March, Brian Rice boasted he was a lieutenant in the Baltimore police department and warned “heads will roll” if officers in a nearby city did not “go arrest” his ex-girlfriend’s husband, according to a police report obtained by the Guardian.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...icer-brian-rice-freddie-gray?CMP=share_btn_tw


2 weeks before he arrested FG.
 
I can't find a video that shows Gray's feet up by his head, they are all too blurry to see that. The Baltimore Sun shows the 'leg lace' as folding up a person's feet to their waist..so I don't know. Could be exaggeration on the part of the witnesses, could be the officers were too zealous in their exercise of the leg lace.

If the charges for illegal arrest get dropped because the knife is indeed found to be illegal then do the assault charges for the bike cops go too?
 
"“Heads will roll if something happens to her or the children, if you do not go arrest him,” Rice said, according to Obst."

Just putting Rice's "heads will roll" in context. It seems very strange he was back on street duty so soon after that, but video of FG doesn't give any indication Rice caused his injuries imo. According to Mosby, Rice's final contact with FG was ordering Ofc. Goodson to drive FG to the nearby BaltimoreCentral Booking and Intake Facility 10 min. away.
 
Program note: FG family lawyer - Billy Murphy - to be interviewed by Wolf Blitzer "in the next half hour"
 
Ausgirl said:
And if there's any doubt about there about there being an atmosphere of dense cronyism, lies and cover-up mentality in BPD.. here's Joe Crystal again, on his own experiences as an honest cop there, very worth watching:


.
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Dude, welcome to the USA. You can post that all you want, but that kind of stuff happens in every government agency we have. All the way to the very top.
 
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