MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #3 *INDICTMENT*

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Does aggressive equate to felony homicide? Just curious.

I still am astounded that MM is the bad guy here when police officers have been INDICTED in Freddie Gray's death.

I get wanting to believe that LE are the good guys. What I don't get is the amazingly reaching "blame game" some people are willing to employ to deny any wrongdoing on the part of LE.

Yet we can bash and blame Freddie Gray. Only he is the victim, and oh yeah, DEAD.

Sometimes it is right to accept that the good guys do the wrong thing. Ignoring the obvious and repeating over and over "la la la la i do not want to hear facts" is just ridiculous and serves no purpose other than to make one appear so completely biased that they are incapable of considering any other scenario than the one they hold to their breast.

That is sad, but predictable.
 
^^^^
Looks like that's being done on both sides then IMO
 
EllieBee said:
Does aggressive equate to felony homicide? Just curious.

I still am astounded that MM is the bad guy here when police officers have been INDICTED in Freddie Gray's death.

I get wanting to believe that LE are the good guys. What I don't get is the amazingly reaching "blame game" some people are willing to employ to deny any wrongdoing on the part of LE.

Yet we can bash and blame Freddie Gray. Only he is the victim, and oh yeah, DEAD.

Sometimes it is right to accept that the good guys do the wrong thing. Ignoring the obvious and repeating over and over "la la la la i do not want to hear facts" is just ridiculous and serves no purpose other than to make one appear so completely biased that they are incapable of considering any other scenario than the one they hold to their breast.

That is sad, but predictable.
Click to expand...

Just because someone is indicted it does not mean they are GUILTY.

And who is bashing Freddie?

Sometimes the good guys do do the wrong thing. I know that full well. But sometimes there is a rush to judgment these days, and that is also sad, but predictable. JMO
 
Nana said:
^^^^
Looks like that's being done on both sides then IMO
Click to expand...

According to WS TOS, Freddie is the victim. Not the indicted LEOS.

So speculation is allowed only on those accused and indicted in his death.
 
EllieBee said:
Does aggressive equate to felony homicide? Just curious.

I still am astounded that MM is the bad guy here when police officers have been INDICTED in Freddie Gray's death.

I get wanting to believe that LE are the good guys. What I don't get is the amazingly reaching "blame game" some people are willing to employ to deny any wrongdoing on the part of LE.

Yet we can bash and blame Freddie Gray. Only he is the victim, and oh yeah, DEAD.

Sometimes it is right to accept that the good guys do the wrong thing. Ignoring the obvious and repeating over and over "la la la la i do not want to hear facts" is just ridiculous and serves no purpose other than to make one appear so completely biased that they are incapable of considering any other scenario than the one they hold to their breast.

That is sad, but predictable.
Click to expand...

What facts? MM is hiding the facts right now. It'd be nice to know some facts. Like how FG died. Just repeating he's dead proves nothing about how he died and if the law was broken.

MM arrested some of these people on one ground, the knife. Then, once that looked like a mistake, she has changed her reasoning to them restraining him BEFORE officially arresting him. Come on, she can't be serious there. As if that isn't seen on any episode of cops even. And the rationale behind doing it is obvious to anyone being honest.

I have no problem prosecuting corrupt cops. Would applaud it. But make sure that's what happened. Don't bend to public pressure and create scapegoats. I can't see why anybody would be comfortable with anything less.

Who knows when any of us might become the witch who needs burning at the stake to calm everybody down.

At the risk of stating the obvious
That is what many think MM is doing. Because it looks like she overreached when she filed charges on all six and the absence of any kind of conspiracy charge only adds to that appearance.



Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk 2
 
EllieBee said:
According to WS TOS, Freddie is the victim. Not the indicted LEOS.

So speculation is allowed only on those accused and indicted in his death.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. When someone is indicted we are allowed to discuss the indictment and if we think it is warranted, or not. It does not break TOS to do so.
 
Pretending that half the facts don't exist makes for a dishonest discussion. That is putting your hands over your ears and singing lalalala. Just MOO.

ETA ^ ^ . It might lead you to a conclusion but it probably won't be the right one.
Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk 2
 
EllieBee said:
According to WS TOS, Freddie is the victim. Not the indicted LEOS.

So speculation is allowed only on those accused and indicted in his death.
Click to expand...

Honest question: if an innocent person is indicted, has the state made them a victim?

Sent from my SCH-S960L using Tapatalk 2
 
I'd really like to know why she is 'protecting the public' from the autopsy report. She was shouting her version of the COD from the rooftops not too long ago. We were regaled by the description of the crushed voice box and disconnected spine. But once the report was released, SILENCE. I wonder why?
 
katydid23 said:
I'd really like to know why she is 'protecting the public' from the autopsy report. She was shouting her version of the COD from the rooftops not too long ago. We were regaled by the description of the crushed voice box and disconnected spine. But once the report was released, SILENCE. I wonder why?
Click to expand...

I want to know too! I bet there's something in there favorable to the police officers!
 
popsicle said:
The Baltimore Sun ‏@baltimoresun [video=twitter;609344958236106752]https://twitter.com/baltimoresun/status/609344958236106752[/video]
Prosecution filing says officers "caused physical harm" to Freddie Gray by failing to secure him in back of van. http://bsun.md/1cP3dwp
Click to expand...


quote from article: bbm

They said each officer "caused physical harm" to Gray by failing to secure him in the back of the van, and that the van then acted as an "instrumentality" of each of them and "made harmful contact" with Gray.

i sure do wish the b/sun would pdf the filing . . . so few direct quotes!

interesting that the last line of the article ends with "Mosby has said the folding knife Gray was carrying was not illegal."

nobody has stated as fact that this particular van was equipped with seatbelts. for argument sake = if it had no seatbelts - could the officers still be charged ?
 
Murders Soar as Policing Dwindles in West Baltimore

Police union officials say that officers are still coming to work, but that some feel a newfound reluctance and are stepping back, questioning whether they will be prosecuted for actions they take on the job.

At least 55 people, the most since the early 1970s, have been murdered in Baltimore since May 1, when the state’s attorney for the city, Marilyn J. Mosby, announced the criminal charges against the officers.

At the time of her announcement, Ms. Mosby’s charges were seen as calming the city. But they enraged the police rank and file, who pulled back. The number of arrests plunged, and the murder rate doubled.

....police commanders here attribute the spike in violence in large part to a unique factor: a flood of black-market opiates stolen from 27 pharmacies during looting in April, enough for 175,000 doses now illegally available for sale.

They say drug gangs are now oversupplied with inventory from the looting, resulting in a violent battle for market share from a finite base of potential customers.

Officials from the western Baltimore neighborhoods hardest hit by the spate of murders — including City Councilman Nick J. Mosby, who is married to Ms. Mosby, the state’s attorney — say commanders have also doubled the number of officers per cruiser for safety reasons.

“The visibility has significantly decreased,” Mr. Mosby said. While many people in his district want a larger police presence, he added, “you talk to others and they don’t even want to see a police officer.”

The police say there were 13 homicides in the first 11 days of June.
Click to expand...

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/murders-soar-as-policing-dwindles-in-west-baltimore/ar-BBl1NAV
 
dandy said:
quote from article: bbm

They said each officer "caused physical harm" to Gray by failing to secure him in the back of the van, and that the van then acted as an "instrumentality" of each of them and "made harmful contact" with Gray.

i sure do wish the b/sun would pdf the filing . . . so few direct quotes!

interesting that the last line of the article ends with "Mosby has said the folding knife Gray was carrying was not illegal."

nobody has stated as fact that this particular van was equipped with seatbelts. for argument sake = if it had no seatbelts - could the officers still be charged ?
Click to expand...

BBM. Sure. The prosecutor would simply argue that a seatbelt equipped van SHOULD HAVE been called, and that the officers were criminally responsible for not doing so, and waiting for one to arrive. (Since the seatbelt "rule" was a few days old.)

I think the bottom line, IMO, is that the prosecutor is quite determined to criminally prosecute and convict these 6 officers, no matter what the evidence will show (or not), or what the laws are, or anything else. They are clearly, IMO, being scapegoated. There is no end to what can be achieved with verbal and legal gymnastics when there is a determined effort to scapegoat someone. Now we see that the justifications have evolved to include language that the simple act of putting FG in the van made the van an "instrumentality" of each of them.

There is simply no way, IMO, for officers to effectively police under these circumstances. They can't do anything "right" in the present climate. There is nothing at all they can do that will not be characterized as "excessive force". The cannot make a single arrest, or talk to anyone. Their mere presence is abusive. Even just riding around in their patrol cars is characterized as menacing.

I feel tremendously sorry for good officers who have to continue to go to work in these circumstances, because they need a paycheck and are trapped.
 
popsicle said:
Prosecutors in Gray case call defense request for police training manuals a 'fishing expedition'

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ci-gray-subpoena-response-20150612-story.html
Click to expand...

Note that Marilyn Mosby is determined NOT to release the autopsy report to the defense until the instant she is compelled to, by law. It's a way for her to keep a power position, IMO. Because being able to suppress the AR results for another 12 days, lol, buys her a little time to decide how to manage the inevitable $hi#$torm when it's released, IMO. (Maybe she can book Prince to come back to B'More and do another concert, to deflect attention from the AR?)

The autopsy report, as many have suspected from the beginning, is not going to clearly support the prosecution's version of events, IMO. At best, IMO, it will be neutral-- neither supporting or condemning either the defense or prosecution. So it will be a war of experts, IMO.

It's my opinion that the tox results are probably positive for heroin and/ or other substances, which if true, will be even more troubling for the prosecutor's charges.

There is simply no reason to not release the autopsy report and tox results to the defense. MM knows this-- if the AR supported her charges, it would be plastered in every media report by now.

The office of State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby also called a separate defense subpoena request for the "complete file" on the investigation into Gray's death — including his autopsy — an "end run" around court rules governing "the scope and timing of permissible discovery."

It said the other request for the "complete file" in the Gray case was also overly broad, and documents the defense is entitled to — including the autopsy — would be delivered to them in due time.
Click to expand...

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ci-gray-subpoena-response-20150612-story.html
 
It is possible that none of the 6 police officers themselves know exactly what happened, what directly caused Gray's death...
 
popsicle said:
Prosecutors in Gray case call defense request for police training manuals a 'fishing expedition'

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...ci-gray-subpoena-response-20150612-story.html
Click to expand...

OMG. The full quote..
"Baltimore prosecutors say a request for police training manuals by defense attorneys in the Freddie Gray case is a "fishing expedition" that would be "oppressive" to meet."

Oppressive???? Handing over a hard or electronic copy of a procedural manual is OPPRESSIVE??????? :crazy:

And what happened to not "trying the case in the media?"
 
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