Members' Theories

[Safeguard]

sorry, when i said, i can't believe parents won't phone 911, i neglected to add "for ambulance". yes, they phoned for kidnapping................. and yes, i can not believe that they would then harm the child further for staging purposes. and my vague recollection is she might not have been dead during the cover-up acts.

so it's intruder (and they wrote that ransom note, which IMO is preposterous) or the ramseys did some really horrible stuff to cover up an accident?......... i don't find either theory remotely credible, but is there a 3rd alternative beyond intruder or ramsey? someone they knew?

on the neighbour hearing the scream, when was that? (too lazy to google)......... and a cynic would say, "something terrible and violent happened to this girl, so of course she screamed, but who/what was causing the scream?"..... of course, why didn't the ramseys hear it? but i'm sure a defense attorney and experts could easily explain that.

does this women stand firm on the scream? hearing stuff that wakes you up is pretty murky. most times i figure i imagined it. but a few times i'm certain i heard something.

can a young girl that age make a very loud, piercing scream?

JBR is like JFK/Oswald. no matter what your pet theory, it is going to be full of holes, or things that are very hard to believe possible.

This is exactly right. I hate that we do not know who killed JonBenet. But we don't. That is a fact.

I loath the attitude of smug superiority of those who insist, with a certitude that's preposterous under the circumstances, that there are no other possibilities besides RDI and their insistence that anyone who questions that must have inferior reasoning, knowledge of the case, or some other defect. That's just rude. imo

 

[fridaybaker]

No one can say, with certainty, what the original intent was, nor the point of the "ransom" note. Except the killer.

Why would the Ramsey's be so ridiculously stupid? (Jeese J&P You're educated people, running a business, at the very least dispose of the damn note pad!).



MmmmHmm. And how long did that "delay" anything? So...uh... they went through with all the trouble writing that bizarre note, only to have J discover her shortly after the cops came? Why? (bother).

Lots of murderers have left odd, unexplainable notes and other items at the scene... to torment, as "jokes" (that only they "get".), or clues ect...

Why would the Ramsey's write that note? It only made THEM look BAD. They don't strike me as complete idiots.

Safeguard, firstly, let me just say that I don't think the Ramsey's were particularly brilliant people. I have the impression that were/are of average intelligence. I know many people who have been successful and run businesses who aren't overly bright. That being said and intelligence aside, I believe what happened in that house resulted in absolute chaos. You had at least two people who were trying to cover up a capital crime and the fact that they made mistakes can be chalked up to: INTENSE stress; various and developing ideas on how to do it by at least two people; a developing scene early in the morning beginning with the 911 call, and likely other factors.

It's easy to look back on a situation and see the problems and mistakes (and I'm sure the Ramsey's have had quite a few "argh...why did we do that" moments) but many crimes do result in mistakes, which is generally why they are solved.

 

[fridaybaker]

1. We can deduce, from what we actually do know about the case, and particularly, the ransom note.

2. The R's would be that stupid, because they were that desperate. What was the alternative -- to run out to the store and buy a notepad and pen in the wee-hours of the morning? And risk being seen on store cameras and/or by neighbors leaving the house at that hour? They needed to use what they had at their house. PR put both the pad and the pen in their normal spots -- why would an intruder need to do that?

Also, I will just as easily ask: why would the intruder be that stupid? To use his own handwriting, as opposed to assembling a ransom note before entering the home? And to hang around that long in the crime scene? You can't answer this.

Also, why would the killer write 2 practice notes, throw and leave them in the trashcan, before the actual ransom note? Another question you won't be able to answer.

3. Um, it delayed it for hours! The police were called around 6:30 a.m and the body wasn't found until, what 1:30 p.m.? That's 7 hours! The cops did not discover the body "shortly after."

J discovered her because LA (the detective) made FW go with J to search the basement again. It was not JR's idea to search it again, but once she told him to (and to have FW go with), he was trapped, and it would have looked suspicious if he had tried to prevent FW from searching that particular basement room.

4. The R's (PR) wrote the note because again, they were trying to divert attention from the fact that she was murdered. And it almost worked. If LA doesn't tell JR and FW to search the basement again, the cops would have eventually left the house and JR would have been able to dispose of the body.

There is a difference between being smart and being just smart enough (i.e. not stupid) to commit a crime. For the most part, they were smart; and they did get away with it -- but these aren't professional criminals and/or everyday murderers we're talking about, so obviously, they were sloppy in some areas. The ransom note is a prime example of such sloppiness, but it was necessary and done out of desperation.

Userid, yes to everything you've said. I don't think there's any rational explanation for this other than: The RN was written to throw off the cops (and it almost did!!!! They almost got away with it.) so that at some point when LE left, they could dispose of the body. Had it been chalked up to a kidnapping, things would have been a lot simpler. Unfortunately, it became obvious after several hours that that wasn't going to happen, so JB was "found" in the basement.

Also, I think most everyone who's worked on this case knows this.

 

[Userid]

It would have been easy to get rid of the pad and pen. No one had to leave the house or buy anything.

So the Ramsey's are going to write that note, then casually toss the evidence that they did back in a drawer?

The ransom note makes no sense in any scenario. But putting pad and pen back where they find them fits idi better, particularly if the killer's motive was hated /revenge/envy or other...



They couldn't possibly believe that after they report a kidnapping, they will then be able to smuggle a body out of the house unnoticed.

The Ransome note is unexplainable is any of the theories. It certainly didn't benifit the R's.

They needed to use what they had available, which was the pen and pad.

PR put the items back because she didn't think the cops would realize the note was from inside the home. She wrote the note on pages from the middle of the pad.

I answered your questions. Answer mine: why would an intruder need to put the pad and pen back in their original positions? How does putting those items back fit "hated/revenge/envy or other"? The replacement of those items doesn't "fit" any of those themes better and is meaningless.

Sure they could have believed that (they could eventually dispose of the body). You act like this has never happened before. The cellar she was found in was windowless and air-tight. She could have been held there indefinitely, until the R's found the right time to remove it.

The ransom note fits the R's better than it does an intruder. I've given you a plethora of reasons why. You've yet to give me any, except to vaguely say that "putting pad and pen back where they find them fits idi better, particularly if the killer's motive was hated /revenge/envy or other."

 

[Userid]

Userid, yes to everything you've said. I don't think there's any rational explanation for this other than: The RN was written to throw off the cops (and it almost did!!!! They almost got away with it.) so that at some point when LE left, they could dispose of the body. Had it been chalked up to a kidnapping, things would have been a lot simpler. Unfortunately, it became obvious after several hours that that wasn't going to happen, so JB was "found" in the basement.

Also, I think most everyone who's worked on this case knows this.

Exactly, thanks fridaybaker! As I mentioned, the ransom note's main purpose was to divert attention away from the murder; it's second, and probably equally important purpose, was to lead the investigators to focus "outside" the home.

An intruder simply wouldn't need to write this note. It serves absolutely no purpose for an intruder to do so, and it would have simply increased the intruder's chances of being discovered during the crime and/or identified later through the handwriting.

 

[Safeguard]

Its a fascinating case, that remains unsolved, all these many years later.

Yet, to RDI people, it's all solved, RDI.

Which is the exact mindset the keystone cops had that blew the whole Investigation.

Someone bashed that little girls head in .intentionally and ferociously. Imo.

Far beyond what a frustrated parent, upset at a wet bed, accidently bashed the child head on a bathtub or whatever... Really far beyond a nine year old sibling, angry because she took a bite of his pineapple. (seriously people wtf?)...

Imo... Somebody really, really ANGRY deliberately killed this child. Hated the Ramsey's and constructed the perfect revenge.

Her parents were criticised for fetishising her looks, while the public and media did exactly the same thing themselves.

Nine months after this crime, someone broke into a house near the Ramsey house and was in the process of assaulting a nine-year-old girl in the middle of the night and was chased out by her mother. The girl went to the same dance studio as JonBenét. The police said they believed it had no connection to the Ramsey case.”

If you look at the autopsy photos and you see the deep furrow in her neck created by that ligature, you see a tremendous amount of force was used. That does not suggest staging to me the person who did it, meant it."

The Ramseys have nothing in their background to suggest that this level of evil dwelled in their hearts.

It is entirely possible JonBenét was killed by a member of her family. It is also very likely the case will never be solved: Patsy has since died and the case gets colder every year.

The ghoulish hysteria around her murder has lasted more than three times longer than JonBenét’s life did.

"I’ve covered lots of big stories: the Challenger, presidential elections. But this – it is something that I’m thinking about all the time,” says Brennan. “It is an impossibly complex, seemingly unsolvable riddle.” It is also the death of a child, killed with shocking brutality. But it’s hard to see the truth beneath the shock."
Maybe the Ramsey's were secretly full of self loathing and decided implode their perfect lives. (and cancel that trip to Disney!).
But...
Pardon me if I doubt it.

*Quotes from the link":
JonBenét Ramsey: the brutal child murder that still haunts America

 

[Safeguard]

PR put the items back because she didn't think the cops would realize the note was from inside the home. She wrote the note on pages from the middle of the pad.

I know that some people think the Ramsey's are of ... less than average intelligence. But... "she didn't think the cops would realize the note was from the inside home" ? Seriously?

So these idiots didn't think an investigation would include where the randsom note originated...

Well, ya know, Patsey was tired, no doubt, from sexualy assaulting her six yr olds corps and hey... she might have pulled a muscle twisting that paint brush... maybe she wasn't thinking clearly...

I answered your questions. Answer mine: why would an intruder need to put the pad and pen back in their original positions? How does putting those items back fit "hated/revenge/envy or other"? The replacement of those items doesn't "fit" any of those themes

An intruder wouldn't "need to" put the pad and pen back in their original place, But the Ramsey's definitely wouldn't want to do that.

Sure they could have believed that (they could eventually dispose of the body). You act like this has never happened before. The cellar she was found in was windowless and air-tight. She could have been held there indefinitely, until the R's found the right time to remove it.

Yeah. Maybe they were even planning to jack-hammer a hole in the basement floor and cement over it! Or, they could live with their only daughters rotting corps until they came up with a beter idea!

The ransom note fits the R's better than it does an intruder. I've given you a plethora of reasons why. You've yet to give me any, except to vaguely say that "putting pad and pen back where they find them fits idi better, particularly if the killer's motive was hated /revenge/envy or other."

You seem to have a mistaken definition of "plethora".

I get it, that you think the Ramsey's did it. And you may be right. I just dont think people who are open to other possibilities, should be villainized the way that we are.

 

[Safeguard]

If I may ask a question, to those who participate in this forum in general...
Do you feel it's acceptable that IDI discussion is forbidden? Why would that be if you are confident in your theory? Seems like respectful debate has, and could happen except for one side being silenced. Is that ok?

 

[fridaybaker]

I know that some people think the Ramsey's are of ... less than average intelligence. But... "she didn't think the cops would realize the note was from the inside home" ? Seriously?

So these idiots didn't think an investigation would include where the randsom note originated...

Well, ya know, Patsey was tired, no doubt, from sexualy assaulting her six yr olds corps and hey... she might have pulled a muscle twisting that paint brush... maybe she wasn't thinking clearly...



An intruder wouldn't "need to" put the pad and pen back in their original place, But the Ramsey's definitely wouldn't want to do that.



Yeah. Maybe they were even planning to jack-hammer a hole in the basement floor and cement over it! Or, they could live with their only daughters rotting corps until they came up with a beter idea!



You seem to have a mistaken definition of "plethora".

I get it, that you think the Ramsey's did it. And you may be right. I just dont think people who are open to other possibilities, should be villainized the way that we are.

Safeguard, I hope you haven't felt villainized by me. If so, I apologize!

 

[fridaybaker]

Delete.

 

[The Man On The Stairs]

The more one sleuths this case the more confusing it gets. More chance of getting a direct phone line to God and getting said deity (notice how I stayed gender neutral there lol) to explain the meaning of life, than get to the bottom of what happened to that little girl. Constant boomerang effect, guilty, innocent, that can be explained, odd behavior, again can be explained, guilty, innocent, he did it, nope, no DNA, they did it, nope, yes, nope, back to first theory, no, wrong there, wait, some sex case has just owned up, nope, another weirdo out for his 15 minutes of twisted fame, repeat and rinse, ARRGHH!!! We'll never know, ever - bar some miracle that whoever was involved does a deathbed confession. And only Catholics do confessions as far as I know - and don't they only tell a priest to exalt their sins - and isn't the priest's ear sacred in trust? so no go there if the killer was Catholic - and non Catholics, who don't do confessions, are hardly going to go confessing something so heinous to a family member or a pal with the reaper sitting on their shoulder, so that rules that one out. I doubt it anyway: "Oh, Bob, tell Kitty and Mike how much I loved them despite how cranky I was the last few years, and make sure u get that revised will over to Carl my lawyer, I just cut Beth out of her beak in the pie for not flying out from Toronto to be here by my side forgetting what a passive aggressive I am, so that's her out in the cold lol; and give Snoopy a big hug from me, the hospital won't let him in - he'll sure miss me walking him; oh, nearly forgot, I'm actually a sick child killer, yeah, I know, who'd 'ave thunk it, so here's the details to pass onto the cops." Pretty unlikely isn't it? I seriously doubt we'll ever know.

 

[The Man On The Stairs]

Its a fascinating case, that remains unsolved, all these many years later.

Yet, to RDI people, it's all solved, RDI.

Which is the exact mindset the keystone cops had that blew the whole Investigation.

Someone bashed that little girls head in .intentionally and ferociously. Imo.

Far beyond what a frustrated parent, upset at a wet bed, accidently bashed the child head on a bathtub or whatever... Really far beyond a nine year old sibling, angry because she took a bite of his pineapple. (seriously people wtf?)...

Imo... Somebody really, really ANGRY deliberately killed this child. Hated the Ramsey's and constructed the perfect revenge.

Her parents were criticised for fetishising her looks, while the public and media did exactly the same thing themselves.

Nine months after this crime, someone broke into a house near the Ramsey house and was in the process of assaulting a nine-year-old girl in the middle of the night and was chased out by her mother. The girl went to the same dance studio as JonBenét. The police said they believed it had no connection to the Ramsey case.”

If you look at the autopsy photos and you see the deep furrow in her neck created by that ligature, you see a tremendous amount of force was used. That does not suggest staging to me the person who did it, meant it."

The Ramseys have nothing in their background to suggest that this level of evil dwelled in their hearts.

It is entirely possible JonBenét was killed by a member of her family. It is also very likely the case will never be solved: Patsy has since died and the case gets colder every year.

The ghoulish hysteria around her murder has lasted more than three times longer than JonBenét’s life did.

"I’ve covered lots of big stories: the Challenger, presidential elections. But this – it is something that I’m thinking about all the time,” says Brennan. “It is an impossibly complex, seemingly unsolvable riddle.” It is also the death of a child, killed with shocking brutality. But it’s hard to see the truth beneath the shock."
Maybe the Ramsey's were secretly full of self loathing and decided implode their perfect lives. (and cancel that trip to Disney!).
But...
Pardon me if I doubt it.

*Quotes from the link":
JonBenét Ramsey: the brutal child murder that still haunts America

Certainly the skull was well caved in - reminded me of a Ted Bundy crime scene pic - practically identical. So one would have to say it was intentional the act. The hand made garrote pretty much sealed the deal there. The sperm traces on her underwear is pretty messed up as no signs of sexual abuse was prevalent. The fact that the DNA was ran through CODIS and not got a hit is even more messed up, as these sick *advertiser censored*ks always have a history and are logged on the data bank of offending before they upgrade to actual child murder; so how has this c**t evaded that? Murder appears to have been the true intention and that is a progressive thing, and these sickos are always logged before they progress, so... I personally think we all should be DNA stamped at birth and chipped to end disappearances and murderers escaping getting caught. Not so much 70 years ago but certainly now with violent offenders given free reign to do what they want and the sheer rise in the breakdown of society resulting in the rise of rape and murder. I know the do-gooders (the upper middle class ones who are not in any danger of such violence shriek and holler in protest at the mere mention of any actual punishment to a child killer - and sadly, though in minority, their voices are the loudest.) I doubt there are many here who would not agree we need to execute a sex case on first offence. No appeals, if found guilty BEYOND all reasonable doubt, bullet in the back of the head within 12 hours of the judges black cap donned. How do we make sure this is fair and not slotting one of thousands and thousands of innocent framed men and women? We allow the defense a DA as well that defends the accused with the same resources that the prosecution get. That way we end the bent career climber from cop to DA to Senator and save the tax payers a fortune by not using the criminal justice system as a lucrative business for the in-house job for the boys crowd. Back to shooting a convicted sex case on first offence - well, multiply that by a few thousand and go retro and think of the hundreds of thousands victims would be alive and well today. Soon as a parole board let's a nonce out they have just murdered and raped one to God knows how many.

 

[dgfred]

I don't 100% agree about the force needed for the head trauma was intentional. I could see an accident along the lines of her head hitting the bathtub/toilet or even an accidental hard hit with the/a golf-club or flashlight maybe.

When my daughter was small my wife was taking the towel off of her (after a bath)... she stepped on the towel at the same time, lost her footing and fell against the bathroom cabinet. Needed like 6 stitches. A much milder example I know.

 

[InvestigatorGladys]

This is a thread for members to post their theory or theories. It's not a discussion thread.

Here's how to use it--

Create a new post and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory.

If you have more than one theory, then call them (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (1) and WSPoster's Theory (2) but put them in separate posts.

Remember - do not use this thread for discussion. If you wish to discuss another member's theory, start a new thread and call it (e.g.) WSPoster's Theory (2) - Discussion.

It will be interesting to compare the theories. You should aim to answer such questions as--

(i) Who the perp was
(ii) What the motive was
(iii) How the perp gained entry and how he left
(iv) What caused the head blow
(v) How long the perp was in the house
(vi) Has the perp offended before (or since)
(vii) What pieces of evidence are for real and what are red herrings
(viii) others?

If anyone wishes to post a theory anonymously, send me a PM.

NB -- Do not name any private individuals (i.e. give them a pseudonym).

Hi I cannot see where to post my theory?

 

[InvSmith]

Some things that stuck out to me:

So IMO there's without a doubt involvement from someone in the house. I say this because of evidence the crime scene was staged, and the fact that this would be the first time in history a ransom note was left inside the house WITH the intended victim dead there as well. I won't go through everything but there were no ligature marks on the wrist, and the tape over her mouth had no signs of struggle or resistance on the inside (sticky side). This means she was incapacitated and or dead first, and then tied up. There's quite a bit more evidence pointing in this direction as well, but I also want to point out that Pattsy's fingerprints were all over the bowl and spoon that had the pineapple JBR ate. There were no drugs in her system either so hopefully that puts an end to the theory she was drugged with pineapple by an intruder theory I keep seeing. Last but not least it's very strange to me that she was handled by multiple people upon finding her body yet none of their DNA was discovered on JBR, which makes me question that area as well. There' so much more but this is a theory section so I won't write an essay about that here.

My theory(s)

1) Covering up an accident:

JBR somehow acquired her head injuries without true malice, and then panic caused the parent(s) to stage a murder. I say without true intent to cause the harm it did because I doubt she acquired that massive of trauma by complete accident. My guess is Pattsy but it could of been from anyone in the family. It might seem ridiculous but let's see how many other people come up with dumb ideas under massive amounts of stress like this would cause.

2) Rape/Sexual Assault gone wrong:

The little girl certainly seemed to be over sexualized for her age, and I wouldn't be surprised If she had been sexually assaulted before. This doesn't always mean penetration or even stimulation to her private areas so just because she had been checked before doesn't mean something like this wasn't going on. It could of been by the family or by friends invited to the home to do so and ended up going too far. By this point it could of been impossible to bring her into hospital for her head injuries without being discovered, so they killed her and staged the scene. Perhaps even trying to frame one of the friends by leaving their semen behind as evidence.

Rape/Sexual Assault and Intentional Murder:

It's possible that whoever assaulted her (family or friends of) intentionally killed her during the act and then staged the scene to avoid capture.

Final thoughts: It seems strange that they staged the scene but left the semen by accident so I'm going to assume they meant to leave it there but people do stupid things when they arent thinking straight. The one thing im sure of is that someone in that house was involved. Had they not been, then the idea of leaving a ransom note would make no sense for so many reasons that are obvious. Let me know what you guys think!!!

One thing that has stuck lately is someone mentioned JB may have been subjected to "douching" since she was wetting the bed as her hymen was still partially intact. It sounds crazy but it could have happened. The other possibility brought up in the case was groups of parents and friends get together and share their children. Horrible to think of but it has not been ruled out. There are statements that BR makes that indicate 1) he knew more than he has discussed or 2) may have been involved in her injury.

 

[Swirlz]

Hi I cannot see where to post my theory?

You can post your theory here, in this thread.

 

[southernmimi]

One thing that has stuck lately is someone mentioned JB may have been subjected to "douching" since she was wetting the bed as her hymen was still partially intact. It sounds crazy but it could have happened. The other possibility brought up in the case was groups of parents and friends get together and share their children. Horrible to think of but it has not been ruled out. There are statements that BR makes that indicate 1) he knew more than he has discussed or 2) may have been involved in her injury.

I've read everything (usually at least twice) I can find about this case over the years. It continues to haunt me simply because someone in that house murdered a beautiful little girl...full of promise...and got away with it. Long ago, I considered and then didn't the IDI theory. It makes no sense and there is nothing to support it. Sometimes we think we know a persons heart and mind by how they appear in public, on TV, or in their personal lives. Logically, we know that's not correct but we want to believe the Ramseys were a close, loving and decent family who would never harm a fly...and certainly not a child. Every case has circumstances and truths that the general public doesn't have access to, and that is usually where the answers lay. I think what happened that night began as an accident...fueled by stress, alcohol and possibly prescription drugs...and ended up a true nightmare. After many years, I continue to believe PDI and most likely won't change my mind at this point. Much of the staging was overly dramatic and CSI level...done by someone who thought they knew how to make it look like IDI. Anyone can almost feel the panic when they look at the crime scene photos.

 

[Userid]

I know that some people think the Ramsey's are of ... less than average intelligence. But... "she didn't think the cops would realize the note was from the inside home" ? Seriously?

So these idiots didn't think an investigation would include where the randsom note originated...

Well, ya know, Patsey was tired, no doubt, from sexualy assaulting her six yr olds corps and hey... she might have pulled a muscle twisting that paint brush... maybe she wasn't thinking clearly...



An intruder wouldn't "need to" put the pad and pen back in their original place, But the Ramsey's definitely wouldn't want to do that.



Yeah. Maybe they were even planning to jack-hammer a hole in the basement floor and cement over it! Or, they could live with their only daughters rotting corps until they came up with a beter idea!



You seem to have a mistaken definition of "plethora".

I get it, that you think the Ramsey's did it. And you may be right. I just dont think people who are open to other possibilities, should be villainized the way that we are.

Who has "villainized" IDI'ers? There's a difference between disagreeing with someone and "villianizing" them. I haven't called you names or been nearly as snarky to your theory ideas are you just were in this post, so if you want to keep pretending you're a victim here, go ahead if you must. I personally have no problem with people bringing up IDI theories, but one should have enough thick skin to handle people disagreeing with you; that's what happens on a message board.

And no, RDI'ers don't claim to have the whole case solved. We're not talking about the whole case. We're talking about the ransom note.

PR would have more reason to put the pad and pen back than an intruder would. And yes, it certainly isn't as far-fetched as you believe -- it's the same reason why she left the two practice notes in the trash: because she wasn't necessarily worried that the cops would focus on the family; she thought the police wouldn't view them as suspects.

If an intruder used these items, he would have just left them out. Again, he'd have no reason to put them back in their original places.

I find it funny that all your responses to my theory ideas are just you mocking, but there is no actual real rebuttal to any of my ideas -- because you don't have any substantial answers to my ideas. So you just rely on mockery, which is totally fine by me and feel free to keep it up, but unsurprising that you lack any substance.

 

[Userid]

If I may ask a question, to those who participate in this forum in general...
Do you feel it's acceptable that IDI discussion is forbidden? Why would that be if you are confident in your theory? Seems like respectful debate has, and could happen except for one side being silenced. Is that ok?

You're asking the wrong people. No one in this thread owns this site; it isn't our call -- we're just posters, same as you. Like I said, I personally don't mind people bringing up IDI theories, but if it's site's policy to prohibit IDI discussion, then I'll abide by those rules.

 

[SilasTravis]

...is it the site's policy that IDI discussion is against the rules?