Members' Theories

[No it's not]

Wow. Quite a story. Its not supported by any physical or circumstantial evidence that I'm aware of. What sources do you have for these criminals who befriended Patty and John? Who is the Santa you refer to? Investigators debunked the family friend "Santa" as being to ill and frail to hoist himself in and out of a window. The stun gun reference is one of the most often repeated erroneous theories by keyboard crime fans; probably because Lou Smit suggested the possibility.

The taser is NOT a knockout instrument. Ever get "tased" anyone? If you haven't, at least you have seen people hit with a taser on tv. It doesn't knock them out. It can incapicate them for a few moments and cause them to be compliant. But it hurts like hell and the recipient of a taser hit is very likely to scream bloody murder. I did. No I'm not a criminal - I'm in LE. Maybe one kid in a 100 would be silent but there is no way a criminal could count on that kind of reaction. He's be better off stuffing a rag in a kid's mouth than take a chance that a taser woud render them unconscious - this is very far-fetched yet so many crime fans believe this anyway.

I always wondered, if a taser had been used as a last resort attempt to revive her, the taser acting as a defibrillator so to say. I know the current is low, but if someone is desperate, especially if the blow to the head occurred first? It could explain why there were not more abrasions found between the two round spots. Those additional abrasions would have been the result of moving away from the taser due to excruciating pain. She was dead or possibly near dead and did not react. Just saying.

-Nin

 

[topcop]

I think these marks were debunked as being made by a taser devise. There were tests conducted on pigs to de-bunk this theory.

Lou Smit was no doubt an outstanding detective in his day, but I would bet he never carried a taser and didn't know much about them. It's only fairly recently that police have started wearing them as part of their standard gear. Many departments still don't issue them - they're expensive for one thing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I think Burke was molesting her & John and Patsy knew it. That night he used the paintbrush handle. Her hurt her, she screamed and to shut her up he whacked her with the bat.
Then he poked her with the train tracks to wake her up.
Patsy did hear her scream or Burke scared woke her to tell her.
Came down to find JonBenet pantsless, pantyless and bleeding & unconscious. Maybe she thought JonBenet was dead.
She sends Burke to bed - cleans up & redresses JonBenet wraps her in a blanket.

Throws the bat outside.
Rummages around the basement & finds cord, used piece of duct tape - writes the note- stages strangulation.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Laura_Bean]

Who knows anything about the housekeepers daughter? She was 13 when this happened. Her name was Ariana she was supposedly treated like family by the Ramseys and often played with JonBenet. After she died, Ariana went off the rails, she complained the kids teased her and kept asking about the case, she dropped out of school and never went back, never got her GED. From what I read she went into a deep depression. Does that seem to be a normal response to the trauma or?

 

[Sillybilly]

Personalizing and attacking other WSers is a violation of TOS. A couple of posts have been removed.

Please post respectfully and in accordance with The Rules.

:tyou:

 

[MorkFromOrk]

Wow, these interviews and documentaries have been insightful and should keep us all very busy I am sure. Here are my 2 Cents. My theory, opinion only.

First I don't think we will ever know unless there is a confession by the family.

Having said that, I think, That BR neither killed nor sexually abused JB, but he did torment her.
He has admitted to hitting her with a golf club (by accident on purpose) even. There 's feces in JB room on things- i do think he was doing all that to her too.
I think all the references to that flashlight could show that, left with that cool MagLight left in his room, he told us he went downstairs. I think JR did mentioned it as well putting together or playing with a new present.
( if he got a trainset that day - did they already have a train room?

I do think BR did deliver the fatal blow. Maybe the motive was the pineapple or possibly the flashlight. Was the flashlight wiped down because both children's prints were on that?

I can see BR big brother :Grab her by the PJ"s collar and simultaneously bashing her over the head. ( neighbor hears her scream) ( everyone hears that scream in the house )
At which point she just literally collapses, unconscious, fading before them all. They definitely do not see the cracked skull but they see the bruise and blood settling in her neck.
That is probably before midnight the 25th. JBR was "gone" but alive. ( hence her tombstone date)

BR is sent to his room but maybe is sitting outside JBR's room ( impression in the carpet) Maybe they brought JBR there first, possibly there she started to lose bodily controls.
While I think BR was ordered to his room, by the time they realized she probably was not going to recover, they the parents, divided and conquered.
One wrote the note and the other stayed with JBR and staged things to cover the only that was visible the bruise in her neck.
Then brought her to hide her in the basement. With other evidence they could grab thrown into that suitcase)
they opened the window ( the neighbor heard metal maybe the window made that noise)
I can't bring myself to say that a parent carried out in their minds was a weird euthenasia/ murder? ugh sorry
covering over staging with both ransom note and stranger sex crime.

JR nor Patsy knew exactly why or how JBR was unconscious with severe traumatic brain injury at the hands of BR ( maybe the parents did see the act)
There was no bleeding, the severity of the broken skull was not known until autopsy.
BR ( sent to his room) did not know what happened after their fight and she collapsed.
JR did not know what nonsense was in that Note.
PR did not know how, why, .......where JBR carried out her final moments.she told the 911 operator- Her daughter was " Just Gone" "Gone" :-( she was.

I think it's convenient to place a lot of blame on PR now that she has passed away. Is that what the family would like to do?
But you know PR was obsessed with her kids and probably worried about her kids and their behavior that's for sure
Do people sexually abusing their kids bring them to the dr ?
I do believe BR's behavior toward his sister was herr big worry though. His history of outbursts, bed wetting, possibly feces smearing or even pooping in her bed. His behavior as a child was as off as it is as an adult. IMHO
and I've met a lot of peoples in my travels from Ork. If he was 100% innocent or normal he would have read every single thing about his sister and her case. And his family by now and be out for the same answers we are.

I keep thinking now Like the Deorr Kunz Jr case. Where the PD has said that the people that were on the trip where little Deorr " went missing" were either suspects and or witnesses.
There were no wild animals there.
There were no intruders at the R's home. I think they were all three suspects and witnesses. None of them knew it all.

I would bet what ever BR made in that interview that if they all had it to do over again they would call 911, and get BR the same treatment and special schools he probably has had his whole life.
Not that anything would save JBR that night.

So tragic.
The most terrible legacy of JBR is that too many families do not call 911 and take matters into their own hands.
If more cases of accidental deaths and incriminating injuries at home were identified and possibly prosecuted maybe it would serve as a deterrent. and could save lives.


A lot of things seem so different in this case.
Until next time.
Hearts and only MOO from Ork​

 

[spqr]

I thought "SBTC" meant...Subic Bay Training Center. A Naval Base

 

[spivey]

What better way to twist that knife than by using a phony ransom note to give the guy false hope, when in reality the girl's body will be found in the guy's own house, savagely bound? I submit that the only reason JonBenet's body was hidden in the first place was to increase the psychological torture of her father.

Well, judging by JRs actions in the hours following the discovery of JBR, I'd say a better way to get back at him would have been to siphon the fuel out of his jet, thereby causing him to miss his important meeting.

 

[Springrain]

I believe Burke was telling the truth when he said she was awake at the end of the car ride back from the Christmas party, a fact that JR and PR wanted to cover up. Jonbenet had taken a nap in the car, and was wide awake and didn't want to go to sleep due to being re-energized. The parents said, "Go to sleep anyway. We've got to get up early tomorrow." So she went up to her room, got ready for bed, but just sat there and didn't sleep. Burke got his flashlight (which he admitted to getting that night, BTW) and went back to his room to read/play with toys under his flashlight's light. Jonbenet bounced into Burke's room, wanting to play with Burke. Burke brought her down to the kitchen for her to eat pineapple, and got himself the cup of iced tea. Jonbenet was still wide awake, wanted to stay with hi. Burke said OK, you can stay here, and he began to molest her. I strongly believe both children were getting molested by probably both parents, and Burke was acting out due to having been molested. He went too far and Jonbenet let out a scream (the scream the neighbors heard), and quickly wanting to shut her up, he wacked her head with the flashlight. I think Patsy and John came in soon after to see what'd happened, and saw that Jonbenet appeared dead. She'd be brain-damaged by that point, but still technically alive. They told Burke to go back to bed, where he pretended to be asleep.

After lots of deliberation about what to do (the strangulation came 45 mins to 2 hrs after the initial head blow), John decided to be "the voice of reason" and told Patsy that they had to stage it. He told Patsy to write a ransom note, and she did, but they discarded the first note as a rough draft, and then she rewrote it to become the infamous ransom note. John made the garrote, and strangled her with it, thus technically killing her. Patsy did the paintbrush, that's why the sweater fibres from the sweater she was wearing that night got on it. Then, John wiped down the flashlight and its batteries. They waited a couple hours before calling 911.

 

[Laura_Bean]

I don't believe Burke was molesting his sister. I really don't.

I do wonder if it is normal how off the rails the housekeeper's daughter went after the murder. I think that might be a bit odd.

I wonder about the guy playing Santa Claus. I understand he had heart surgery right before and it was concluded he wasn't strong enough to do all of this..... But I wonder about HIPPA laws. Do we have proof he actually had heart surgery or due to those laws do we have to just take his word for it? It is odd that the note found said Santa would visit JonBenet the day after Christmas..... But his DNA didn't match right? It's also odd his wife made up a play about a girl being abducted and tortured in a basement and that their own daughter was taken years before with a friend, and was sexually molested the day after Christmas. Was someone trying to pin this on him given the note about Santa visiting and knowing his past and his wife's play?

You have the guy who worked at a junkyard killing himself only 2 days after LE goes on tv and says "The suspect list is getting smaller and soon it will only be you" and the suicide seems staged.

This case has soooo many oddities.....

It's ALMOST like the entire town was in on it. But that is sooooo far fetched it's not even funny.

I've read the theory of almost the whole town being in a satanic cult, and sexually abusing kids, and although I disagree that this holds any weight at all, I can sort of see how they came to suspect EVERYONE having involvement.

 

[MsJosie]

Before I can change my thought on the theories...can anyone answer these questions?

1. IF JR sexually abused the children he had with Patsy as some think.....was there any talk or proof JR abused his children from his first marriage? Did anyone ask the older children? Did ex wife give any indication? They might have felt threatened so would not say.

2. Is JR and his older children still in touch with each other?

3. Screams were heard from the Ramsey house. Can a scream be heard from the basement? Was that ever tried by any LE or investigator? If he scream was tested and not heard from the basement, then the scream came from the first or second floor. (It does not appear the basement is a walk out basement, just small windows...most of the wall is under ground so sounds would not be heard, the dirt is a good insulator ).

Thanks

 

[hawkshaw]

The kid did it IMO

 

[lostin ga]

I knew these people. There is no way Patsy or John did this.

 

[Unsolved]

All JMO of course, but I think PR did write the ransom note, as part of a cover up. This is mainly based on Cinda Wong's handwriting research of the note - she says over 200+ similarities, and to me, the way those "q's" were written like "8" especially stuck out (plus not mentioned by Ms Wong, but the way all the "i"s were dotted compared to other PR written cards and letters).

Though I think the ransom note was being dictated to PR, and that's why it started with the strange "Listen carefully!" - I think the person dictating it was telling her to "Listen carefully" when she started writing, and she wasn't supposed to actually write that down.

So to me, if it was a stranger or intruder, PR wouldn't have had to write any note - but if they were trying to protect someone, well....add to that the detective (Arndt) said that the 10:00 AM time mentioned in that ransom note came and went, and they did not remark about that at all to the Detective. Wouldn't you be anxiously sitting next to the phone waiting on it to ring? Unless you knew there would be no call.

I always think about the older son JAR, who was supposedly cleared. But what if the neighbor who was keeping the Christmas present bicycles in his garage for the Ramsey's (Joe Barnhill) did actually see the older son (JAR) go up to the house? (He said he did, then backed off that). Could that have been JAR's suitcase by the window? Maybe everyone was at the party and JAR couldn't get in the house, and he went in through the window? Could he have actually been there when this went down? Did he invite JB to come down and eat some pineapple with him?

JAR would also have known JR's bonus was the $118k amount mentioned in the ransom note. And when JR was on the phone making travel arrangements right away, which JR was he making them for? Getting someone out of town?

I guess it's always possible it could be Burke, and he might have had major anger with all the attention his little sister received, and could have struck out at her, but my mind just can't get over the hump to murder. I don't think PR suspected Burke of any sexual abuse, because I remember reading somewhere that JonBenet stayed in Burke's room on Christmas Eve to be able to get up early for presents the next morning. Surely they wouldn't knowingly put her in that danger, right (I hope)?

Just some thoughts. YMMV.

 

[TartLemon]

I knew these people. There is no way Patsy or John did this.

I appreciate what you are saying, but we don't always 'know' the people we think we know intimately. I had a beloved, dear friend murdered by her husband. I knew them well for over 20 years, but had absolutely no idea this would happen. I would say "No way" except that he did it in front of their 9 yr old daughter with his own Mother in the house, admitted it and was executed. This happened 15 years ago and I'm still in awe over the details, still sometimes believing 'No way'.

 

[YouWho]

I appreciate what you are saying, but we don't always 'know' the people we think we know intimately. I had a beloved, dear friend murdered by her husband. I knew them well for over 20 years, but had absolutely no idea this would happen. I would say "No way" except that he did it in front of their 9 yr old daughter with his own Mother in the house, admitted it and was executed. This happened 15 years ago and I'm still in awe over the details, still sometimes believing 'No way'.

It would be difficult to be objective while being so close to and invested in the people who are guilty.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

Do people sexually abusing their kids bring them to the dr ?

I have an extremely bovine opinion on this point - is there any more information about this doctor, JBR's medical file/history, did the doctor prescribe for Patsy too maybe, was the doctor a friend of the family, was there any discussion between the school nurse (who JBR allegedly would repeatedly visit on a Monday) and this doctor?


Moooooooooooooo

 

[Linda7NJ]

I knew these people. There is no way Patsy or John did this.

You never REALLY know what goes on behind anyone else's closed doors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

I thought "SBTC" meant...Subic Bay Training Center. A Naval Base

Moooo....

Yes - maybe she knew something about his time there, something blackmail-worthy, and was using it as a big final point in her note that was addressed to John.
I think there was sexual abuse, verbal and emotional abuse, and physical abuse towards the children in that house. I think Patsy accidentally bashed her child and then, while extremely inebriated/manic, helped her husband cover it up. He tidied her mess, again. She exploded and he covered for her, again. It has been said their marriage was not strong prior to this, and their behavior on the 26th as a married couple is very strange, almost as if they'd argued very badly in the hours before. I think PR had Borderline Personality Disorder and frequent anger outbursts, as well as depression, addiction to pills/alcohol, and was a CSA victim herself. Then she got cancer, an emotional/physical/logistical/parental nightmare. I think she was self medicating to ignore what her reality was - that she'd escaped her child-rapist father only to marry a child-rapist. And she liked the money and the lifestyle, and did not have the emotional capacity to cope with it except to drown her sorrows. Maybe she was taking advice from her mother. Maybe JR guilted her into forgiving him, he told her he wouldn't do it again, it was one time, etc etc. I think when she wrote the note she was talking directly to JR. Like, the whole note had direct orders to John, it was all a message - and I think SBTC was the biggest card she had to play. What happened at Subic Base Training Centre?



Just my, like, opinion, man.

 

[Madge_Ick_Dike]

I knew these people. There is no way Patsy or John did this.

You knew them personally? Please elaborate!! Do you have verified insider status?