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In the Dr Phil interview, Burke said patsy came into his room flipped on the light and looked around furiously. Seems odd to me she would not have asked him any questions like 'have you seen her' or 'when was the last time you saw her'. Especially when they knew JonBenet went to Burke when she was scared.

IMO, the ransom note had too many details. Why on Earth would a kidnapper go to all that trouble to demand ransom? It would be short, pointed. 'We have your daughter. Will call at 10am to give details for $118,000 payment.' Maybe adding 'Do not call police' but not the detail this note contained.
 
Laura_Bean said:
I get that. But I will say this, in his defense, if my child were lying there probably dead, with tape on her mouth and something around her throat, I would probably pick her up in shock, I would probably be screaming and crying incoherently, I would probably run her upstairs, hoping she was still alive somehow or that she could be revived. In fact, I would probably be ripping ropes and tape and everything off, and starting CPR, even if she was cold as ice. I think I would not want to believe that my baby could be dead and gone. I don't think in that moment, the WORST moment of my entire life, I would be thinking clearly, or be able to come to terms with her death. And I have been looking at these cases for years and years, I know that would be the WORST thing I could do to help find the killer or killers, but I would still probably do ALL of those things. Because I would be in complete shock, my entire world would have crashed, I wouldn't want to believe for even a moment that my child couldn't be revived or I was too late.

I am not saying that John is not the one who did it. But I am saying I could see any loving parent break down and every instruction given by the cop (IE don't TOUCH anything if you find anything call me" etc), would go right out the window, and I would just want to hold, try to revive, cuddle and love on my baby dead or not.
Click to expand...

I totally agree that in times of great tragedy most of us react irrationally.
 
SapphireSteel said:
According to a state police report, Elizabeth Ramsey was a passenger in the car, which went out of control on rain-slicked I-55 at County Line Road and collided with a truck.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...et-ramsey-ramsey-investigation-boulder-police

I was right - no one checked - it was written off as a wet weather accident. It was her Boyfriends Car...jealous much John? Was Beth not supposed to be killed, just the Competition? Or heck, take them both out because Beth had told her boyfriend about her abuse!

Ive driven in a lot of wet weather and not once lost control on a highway...~!!!

WHAT IF....JR is a Serial killer? It's happened multiple times before, some white wealthy egotistical dude whose way of ridding himself of irritants is Murder. See: Michael Peterson.
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Overgeneralization never overlaps critical thinking on a Venn diagram.
 
OK, so I assume the CBS special ended... I am at work and could not watch it. Did they name a suspect, in their opinion? Sorry if this is not the place to ask this... please redirect. :)
 
KentuckyKaren said:
OK, so I assume the CBS special ended... I am at work and could not watch it. Did they name a suspect, in their opinion? Sorry if this is not the place to ask this... please redirect. :)
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All roads lead to Burke. I wasn't convinced until I saw Burke being interviewed about the bowl of pineapple. Very telling! As well as the train tracks causing the two marks on JB's back.

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It just occurred to me today that it's very strange that they didn't look through the entire house themselves while they were waiting for the police to arrive. I've had a situation in the past where I lost my son at the beach and you just start looking everywhere even when you know it's not likely. You look in the same places over and over again because your brain operates in a sort of denial. I don't know if I'm explaining it right but wouldn't we look over and over again through all the rooms of the house just hoping to find our child hidden under the bed or somewhere. It's strange to me that they didn't look through their own home or even go outside to see if they could discover anything. Who would just believe that the child was gone?
 
I think the show was pretty clear cut as to who did it.
 
Burke hit JonBenet and I don't think it was an accident. I think there were things happening in that house for a long time and it built up to something and Burke snapped. He obviously has mental and developmental issues. I also do not believe that PR went to bed that night. I think she was packing some last minute things for their trip and then popped down to check on JonBenet and sees she is not in her bed -- she goes looking for her downstairs (first floor).

She is not there -- she runs back up to Burke's room to see if she is there, "where's my baby!". JonBenet is not there. PR goes and wakes up JR. PR and JR look for her some more but cannot find her. They do not think to look in the Wine Cellar because the door is latched shut (after BR strangled her outside the room, he dragged her in there and latched the door to hide her). They go back to BR's room and ask him if he knows where JonBenet is. He admits that they went down to play with Christmas toys and admits that he accidentally hurt JonBenet (hit her with the flashlight--but doesn't tell them EVERYTHING that he did) and hid her in the basement. PR and JR go down to the basement and find JonBenet lying in the wine cellar. Patsy screams. They see this and instantly know this is no accident and that Burke did terrible things to her.

They do try to see if JonBenet can be revived, but she has died and it is clear that she can’t be saved. They cannot call for help because this scene looks very disturbing! They are both hysterical – they confront Burke and demand to know everything he did. I think they spent a lot of time crying and grieving before they managed to pull themselves together to clean up. PR sets about getting the underwear and wiping off her off in case Burke may have left behind some DNA.

JR grabs a paintbrush, breaks it, and creates this crazy noose-type strangulation device (because he knows Burke has already manually strangled her). He tightens it as much as he can bear to with her face down so that he does not have to see her face. PR during her wiping and cleaning inadvertently transfers a tiny sliver of the paintbrush onto JonBenet. JR places the loose ropes around her arms (already extended over her head because this is how BR dragged her from just outside the wine cellar into the wine cellar), placed a used piece of duct tape onto her mouth and place a blanket around her. They hide crucial evidence connected to the crime in a nearby golf bag or other hiding place upstairs.

Now they have to come up with a plausible explanation for JonBenet to be missing. They come up with the idea of this elaborate Ransom Note. Patsy starts to write the note, but she is still freaking out. John tells her to calm down and listen carefully while he dictates to her. As he is dictating, she adds some of her own mannerisms to the note.

They spend a lot of time with this crime scene and they spend a lot of time in agony, grief, and despair with bouts of hysteria and weeping. They tell Burke to go to bed and stay there until they come to get him. They tell him to never speak of this to anyone and that they will take care of it. They take the flashlight and clean it inside and out (just in case some DNA has seeped inside. And they set it on the counter. They will say that “the flashlight isn’t ours and that an intruder must have used it to come upstairs to write the note and left it behind” In dramatic fashion to make it looks like there is no way they could miss this RN, they spread it out over the steps.

Now they just have to wait until the morning when they would normally be waking up for their trip. The time comes for the 911 call. PR makes the call with JR standing next to her in room. PR is genuinely distraught. BR hears PR on phone and comes in and starts to listen to her making the 911 call. He starts asking JR and PR what is going on now. JR and BR are talking in the background reacting to what PR is saying to 911 and she becomes distracted and hangs up on 911. JR tries to quiet him by saying, “we aren’t talking talking to YOU. “ PR asks the BR that rhetorical question, “What did you do?!!!” BR asks Well What did you find? The kid is in denial and is disturbed. Who knows what he could be referring to.
Time for damage control. Call over the friends. OMG forgot to leave some more evidence of an intruder. Have to find a chance to go down to the cellar to do that…. OMG, I have to get to my Attorney. OMG.. I have to find more ways to contaminate everything. OMG..they are never going to find her body, I’m going to have to find her myself. The Whites were good friends – they know BR is disturbed and instantly knows that BR was involved. Someone (friend or family) snuck out some major evidence of the crime that JR and PR had hidden. I have not watched the CBS special yet - and I know there are holes here. Be gentle....
 
SecretaryGal said:
Burke hit JonBenet and I don't think it was an accident. I think there were things happening in that house for a long time and it built up to something and Burke snapped. He obviously has mental and developmental issues. I also do not believe that PR went to bed that night. I think she was packing some last minute things for their trip and then popped down to check on JonBenet and sees she is not in her bed -- she goes looking for her downstairs (first floor).

She is not there -- she runs back up to Burke's room to see if she is there, "where's my baby!". JonBenet is not there. PR goes and wakes up JR. PR and JR look for her some more but cannot find her. They do not think to look in the Wine Cellar because the door is latched shut (after BR strangled her outside the room, he dragged her in there and latched the door to hide her). They go back to BR's room and ask him if he knows where JonBenet is. He admits that they went down to play with Christmas toys and admits that he accidentally hurt JonBenet (hit her with the flashlight--but doesn't tell them EVERYTHING that he did) and hid her in the basement. PR and JR go down to the basement and find JonBenet lying in the wine cellar. Patsy screams. They see this and instantly know this is no accident and that Burke did terrible things to her.

They do try to see if JonBenet can be revived, but she has died and it is clear that she can’t be saved. They cannot call for help because this scene looks very disturbing! They are both hysterical – they confront Burke and demand to know everything he did. I think they spent a lot of time crying and grieving before they managed to pull themselves together to clean up. PR sets about getting the underwear and wiping off her off in case Burke may have left behind some DNA.

JR grabs a paintbrush, breaks it, and creates this crazy noose-type strangulation device (because he knows Burke has already manually strangled her). He tightens it as much as he can bear to with her face down so that he does not have to see her face. PR during her wiping and cleaning inadvertently transfers a tiny sliver of the paintbrush onto JonBenet. JR places the loose ropes around her arms (already extended over her head because this is how BR dragged her from just outside the wine cellar into the wine cellar), placed a used piece of duct tape onto her mouth and place a blanket around her. They hide crucial evidence connected to the crime in a nearby golf bag or other hiding place upstairs.

Now they have to come up with a plausible explanation for JonBenet to be missing. They come up with the idea of this elaborate Ransom Note. Patsy starts to write the note, but she is still freaking out. John tells her to calm down and listen carefully while he dictates to her. As he is dictating, she adds some of her own mannerisms to the note.

They spend a lot of time with this crime scene and they spend a lot of time in agony, grief, and despair with bouts of hysteria and weeping. They tell Burke to go to bed and stay there until they come to get him. They tell him to never speak of this to anyone and that they will take care of it. They take the flashlight and clean it inside and out (just in case some DNA has seeped inside. And they set it on the counter. They will say that “the flashlight isn’t ours and that an intruder must have used it to come upstairs to write the note and left it behind” In dramatic fashion to make it looks like there is no way they could miss this RN, they spread it out over the steps.

Now they just have to wait until the morning when they would normally be waking up for their trip. The time comes for the 911 call. PR makes the call with JR standing next to her in room. PR is genuinely distraught. BR hears PR on phone and comes in and starts to listen to her making the 911 call. He starts asking JR and PR what is going on now. JR and BR are talking in the background reacting to what PR is saying to 911 and she becomes distracted and hangs up on 911. JR tries to quiet him by saying, “we aren’t talking talking to YOU. “ PR asks the BR that rhetorical question, “What did you do?!!!” BR asks Well What did you find? The kid is in denial and is disturbed. Who knows what he could be referring to.
Time for damage control. Call over the friends. OMG forgot to leave some more evidence of an intruder. Have to find a chance to go down to the cellar to do that…. OMG, I have to get to my Attorney. OMG.. I have to find more ways to contaminate everything. OMG..they are never going to find her body, I’m going to have to find her myself. The Whites were good friends – they know BR is disturbed and instantly knows that BR was involved. Someone (friend or family) snuck out some major evidence of the crime that JR and PR had hidden. I have not watched the CBS special yet - and I know there are holes here. Be gentle....
Click to expand...
IMO once you see the CBS docuseries, you might make a couple of tweaks and you have a very logical and believable theory.

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debbiegarcia36 said:
IMO once you see the CBS docuseries, you might make a couple of tweaks and you have a very logical and believable theory.

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Click to expand...

Agreed


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There is another famous murder case relating to James Burke where a body was found. The curious question is WHO found the body and HOW it was found. I think it is something like the JoBenet case.
 
I have been thinking about the garrote or toggle rope. I believe that BR made this and used on JBR. What if the toy that BR or JR can't quite remember, the one that BR wanted to play with was a rope tying kit for boating/camping sort of thing. There are many out there, some with cards showing exactly how to tie the knots, some with cording included. Since they were into sailing, could this have been one of the gifts that BR received? Something that JR thought they could bond together on? Sticks are often used to practice making the knots on. Here is one example.

https://www.kids-army.com/how-to-tie-knots-kit

They can't really say what this "toy" was because it would be obvious, so this "toy" was never found or listed as being one of the presents!
 
I don't know if anyone has posted this or not, but...

It was mentioned that the ransom note was signed
S.B.T.C - which could stand for Signed By The Captain.
I always thought it might stand for Signed By The Captain VICTORY (as the word VICTORY! Was written after S.B.T.C).
CAPTAIN VICTORY was a comic book series from the early 80's. I always thought that many parts of the note looked like they could have been inspired by the comic books.
 
Someone mentioned JR laid JBR on the carpet floor of the livingroomafter he had found her in the wine cellar and had brought her upstairs. Why the floor? Not only was the body/ clothing now contaminated (hair found..?), but JBR may have been laid down right on the same spot, when JR?PR? found her in the basement? or kitchen area? the first time in the middle of the night/ very early morning..

-Nin
 
periwinkleblue said:
I have been thinking about the garrote or toggle rope. I believe that BR made this and used on JBR. What if the toy that BR or JR can't quite remember, the one that BR wanted to play with was a rope tying kit for boating/camping sort of thing. There are many out there, some with cards showing exactly how to tie the knots, some with cording included. Since they were into sailing, could this have been one of the gifts that BR received? Something that JR thought they could bond together on? Sticks are often used to practice making the knots on. Here is one example.

https://www.kids-army.com/how-to-tie-knots-kit

They can't really say what this "toy" was because it would be obvious, so this "toy" was never found or listed as being one of the presents!
Click to expand...

Hello. Long time no post. So long I couldn't remember my name so had to re-register. I posted back during Kyron's disappearance.

IIRC, JR once said the mysterious unnamed toy was a model. If it was a model train car, the prospect of playing with the new car would have brought BR down to the basement.

Has it ever been proven the dog, Jacques, really suffered liver disease or whatever it was that Patsy claimed when the housekeeper caught her making a switcheroo with a different dog? It's documented many killers start out harming small animals.

BTW, the pictures of the blonde gf was back during Patsy's death so they are not recent. We only have DP's word BR has a gf today.
 
lostin ga said:
I knew these people. There is no way Patsy or John did this.
Click to expand...


With all due respect, I knew the cousins husband who murdered my neice and threw her in the bayou like garbage as well.
No one could believe he did it either ...but he did .
Sometimes we really don't know people as well as we think we do . And sometimes people find themselves in situations that they react to in ways that are totally not what those who know them think they could.
 
Do you believe it's possible Burke did it and the scene was a desperate attempt by his parents to save him? All the while telling themselves he didn't realize what he was doing-he was just a kid and not wanting him to be stigmatized his entire life?
 
My theory is Very close to yours. I also believe the scream heard by the neighbors was Patsy discovering Jon Benet's body. Where we differ is on the parents confronting Burke. I think they left him alone in his room, telling themselves that he didn't understand what he had done and that they didn't want him to know he had actually killed her. Burke was a nervous wreck in the morning.....which is why he stayed in the bed even when hearing that something was going on. It is also why JR said "we aren't speaking to you" when Burke finally did show himself in the kitchen and why BR said, "what did you find". He was very anxious and was probably so relieved when he thought his parents didn't believe he had anything to do with what had happened to his sister. I think they acted like an intruder did it in front of Burke for all these years. But at some point in the last 15 years or so-Burke has realized what really happened. But I still believe it's never been spoken of between him and either of his parent's. Even with PR before she died.
 
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