Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[wasnt_me]

This where things could get crazy. If Rudy is cross-examined about AK and RS's involvement that night he might be forced to explain a highly contrived scenario in which Amanda and Raf came over to the cottage while he was in the bathroom and within a span of five or ten minutes killed Meredith.

ETA: Just realized the whole perjury thing makes no sense. They already know he lied with his original story since it's not the same as the prosecution's theory so what does it matter if he changes it?

Maybe it's the difference between being a witness and a defendant, but then the liars from the first trial need some perjury charges, too. Like the olive thrower.

Right. RG needs to be questioned about the entire story, because the entire story was just put into evidence, not only by those 5 guys, but also by what's in his trial report.

The defense should have a right to ask him why he said he had a date with MK alone, then turned around and said he and his friend just happened to go over there. Did he have a date or not? How'd he know she'd be home? did they just stand outside her house.

I remember once hearing about that white car, and something about RG meeting a friend around there during the time of that parking lot video.

If he had a friend, I strongly believed they intended to burgle the place. One got on the other's shoulders to get in the house. MK came home in the middle of it. the one outside rang the doorbell to get in the house and things ensued from there. Maybe RG even told his friend he'd let him in, but he had to get on the toilet first. In the waiting, MK came home, so the friend rang the doorbell, and pushed his way in the house. RG hopped off the toilet and had to jump in the fight.

Did they test her jacket for DNA? Cause that's where I'd think the friend would have touched her. I still think if the friend was there, he probably bailed quickly, leaving RG to his own fate.

I find it hard to believe a friend was there, but if you say there's 19 unknown DNA samples, they have to belong to someone. I'd guess two belonged to the roommates.

Just a scenerio. the scenerios are infinite seeing as the prosecution has set the bar for being in the murder room at zero evidence.

 

[Allusonz]

Yes, it seems he is a global consultant , and worked for the Forensic Institute in the Netherlands, and also has an institute in the U.S. I guess he was not consulted for this case, though....

Yes he is.

 

[Allusonz]

What? The prosecution is going to rush out to destroy the case they have been prosecuting for 3+ years.

Why couldn't someone from the defense side take abou 100 people with them and go look for the keys/knife? What would be a logical reason not to? Even if disputed it is alot better than NOTHING.

They don't have to. It falls apart on it's own.

As for stating that we are being snarky, touchy etc, this seems to have become a standard reply of late and maybe I am missing it as I am simply not seeing this

 

[Allusonz]

Here's an article worth reading! It says that LNC DNA was used in 2005 to exonerate Tim Masters. So LNC DNA is fine with the Innocence project when it works to free someone, but not good enough when it's used to convict?

"Eikelenboom testified about "low copy number" DNA, by which small samples of DNA are amplified and copied in an effort to obtain a full profile."

"Eikelenboom told jurors he previously worked on the Tim Masters case in Colorado. Masters was convicted in 1999 of a 1987 murder, but was freed in 2008 after Eikelenboom and his wife discovered new DNA evidence."

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/06/21/florida.casey.anthony.trial/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Have you ever looked at the criteria for being accepted by the Innocence Project? You should

Have you heard how many people are on the waiting list? You should

As well they are often referred to by some as the Guilty Project as they as well confirm convictions of those investigated or tend to find the true culprits that did commit them.

They provide a very important service. As well let me remind you of this

"Unvalidated or improper forensic science is a leading cause of wrongful convictions. In more than 50% of the DNA exonerations nationwide, unvalidated or improper forensic science contributed to the underlying wrongful conviction.

These problems include: forensic techniques that have not been subjected to rigorous scientific evaluation (such as hair microscopy, bite mark comparisons, firearm tool mark analysis and shoe print comparisons); testing that is improperly conducted or analysis that is not accurate (regardless of whether the forensic technique involved is validated); and forensic misconduct (such as fabricated test results and misleading testimony). "

http://www.innocenceproject.org/fix/Crime-Lab-Oversight.php

 

[wasnt_me]

It may be the difference between claiming he lied and proving he lied when he gives a conflicting statement. Or (to take the most cynical view) it may just be that they are "overlooking" the previous perjury as long as he tells the story they want.

How can he have any credibilty higher than AK's, or RS's if RS testifies.

Maybe RS will have to get on the stand to refute RG.

"When I crack that whip, everybody's gonna trip. Just like a circus!"--Brittany spears....I can hear the song playing in the courtroom!

 

[Allusonz]

Or he may just shout out that he met AK, then went to the cottage and her and RS killed Meredith... and it was ALL her fault. What then?

If the judge doesn't allow questions except regarding the inmate's testimony then he might not have to worry about perjury.

It seems you have forgotten that during his skype call that he stated the times of 9:00, 9:20, and 9:30. We know that AK and RS were at the computer as per the Motivational Report till 9:10 and that the cartoon was opened at 9:26 as per RS appeal

 

[Allusonz]

How can he have any credibilty higher than AK's, or RS's if RS testifies.

Maybe RS will have to get on the stand to refute RG.

"When I crack that whip, everybody's gonna trip. Just like a circus!"--Brittany spears....I can hear the song playing in the courtroom!

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

oh god I love this I am simply dying of laughter here

 

[Allusonz]

You may think it would have made a difference what she wore or what she said.

I'm not at all convinced.

Must agree with you Nova again. I believe minds were made up prior to the start of that trial

 

[emyr]

Alright, I read somewhere else that another reason they believe it was staged is because the glass broken in the window meant it was too narrow to get through. So the person who would have broken in from the outside would have to reach into the window to unlatch it and open the swinging glass part in order to enter the room.

Is there no example of someone climbing that wall, avoiding the nail, and opening that glass window?

I get annoyed when the simple things aren't shown. If it's impossible to do the climb, then the prosecution should have shown that. If it's possible, then the defense should show it.

I'm kind of irked that this late in the game, the facts aren't clear. The massai report says the postal police arrived at 12:35, the internet says the CCTV camera is running too fast and has the images and corresponding cell phone calls to prove that the camera time stamp is in fact way off, and the postal police arrived later. Which means the Massai report cannot be trusted to have the evidence exactly right. (Unless the internet is wrong, which would normally be more likely to me if it didn't show it's corrobarating evidence.) But maybe I'm getting hoodwinked there.

In any case, the most convincing piece of evidence for me for the "staged break-in" is the difficulty of hanging onto a piece of wood with broken glass in it and hauling yourself up, toes on a sheer wall, and reaching in with your other hand through a small broken glass area and opening a latch. Unless he got lucky and it wasn't latched?

A big part of the case for me hinges on whether or not the burglary was staged. That being said, there still could be a case for the defense in that Meredith's scream caused Rudy to flee so he wouldn't get caught. He then, in a panic, and bloody, waited outside to see if he was in so much trouble he would have to leave the country immediately (having left his backpack inside). Realzing no one was coming, he returned and decided (this being his first murder) to figure out how to not go to jail. So he quickly showered (Is there ZERO dna of Rudy in the bathroom? If there is zero in there that is very damaging. Because someone who committed the murder went in there to clean up. Where is this person's DNA? ) That is unless, the murder started in the bathroom and went into the bedroom. And it was cleaned up afterwards? But that would have been revealed by luminol. Right? So the murder started and ended in the bedroom (correct? proven beyond any doubt at all right?)

Sorry I'm all over the place.

 

[wasnt_me]

Can someone answer me if there is CCTV footage released of all footage between the time Rudy Guede was last seen and 12 the next day? Does one have to go by that camera to get to the house?

Can someone tell me if it was an apple or a mushroom found in Meredith's esophagus. And was it for sure her esophagus? As in she had just eaten it the moment she was attacked? When I heard it was a mushroom my first thought was that it was a shroom mushroom. Then I thought surely they would mention that. What exactly was it?

Also, can someone list the reasons why the broken window was determined to be staged? Are all the reasons:
1) b/c Filomena said the exterior shutters were closed
2) b/c it seems a less likely window to use to break in
3) b/c there was no visual evidence of someone walking through the grass below the window, and no evidence on the wall as well.
4) b/c the pattern of the glass inside the room indicated a rock being thrown from the inside and bouncing off the exterior shutters and back into the room. (I'm unclear on the glass pattern stuff).


Is that, from the forensics, about right?

They do not know what was in her throat. They assumed it was a mushroom, but never tested it. There were NO mushrooms in her last meal and none found in her stomach contents. She did, however, eat some apple thing for dessert before going home. The degense asserts that this is what the food is, but it of course cannot be tested. We have not heard anything about any evidence that MK fixed herself a meal of ONE mushroom in her house before death. We have not heard any evidence that they had a thing of mushrooms in the fridge, either.

If you have looked at the cottage pictures you'll see that it's the best window, really, at night, down in the valley with a tree shrouding it. two trees, one blocking it from the gate, the other blocking it from the road. You will also see that the balcony is unshrouded, has a lamp right there by it, and the whole apartment complex or whatever that is behind the cottage practically looks right down onto that balcony. In front of the window RG used, however, is nothing but trees. Also nothing but trees to the side of it.

There's no way that a nine pound rock "bounced backward" off those shutters, sending glass spraying backward or side ways as far back as the bed. To understand the logic behind the breakin, you really have to read an expert's opinion versus the Mot report, and decide for yourself.

www.injusticeinperugia.com will link you to the expert report. You have download the Motivation report from somewhere, though.

 

[wasnt_me]

No, the issues surrounding the knife analysis is and has always been the lab lacking certification for LCN testing, the lack of full disclosure re the .fsa files, and Stefanoni's dubious testing methods - the "too low" results for example. That's not to mention the ridiculous scenario needed to get the knife from Rafaelle's over to the cottage.

If the independent experts verify her results it will much harder to criticize them, but full disclosure is mainly what everyone's been after and what's been lacking until now.

exactly and precisely.

:twocents:

 

[wasnt_me]

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

oh god I love this I am simply dying of laughter here

Oh, you meant this. You must have missed my Dave Chappelle, "I plead the fif!" skit for RG.

 

[Allusonz]

Alright, I read somewhere else that another reason they believe it was staged is because the glass broken in the window meant it was too narrow to get through. So the person who would have broken in from the outside would have to reach into the window to unlatch it and open the swinging glass part in order to enter the room.

Is there no example of someone climbing that wall, avoiding the nail, and opening that glass window?

I get annoyed when the simple things aren't shown. If it's impossible to do the climb, then the prosecution should have shown that. If it's possible, then the defense should show it.

I'm kind of irked that this late in the game, the facts aren't clear. The massai report says the postal police arrived at 12:35, the internet says the CCTV camera is running too fast and has the images and corresponding cell phone calls to prove that the camera time stamp is in fact way off, and the postal police arrived later. Which means the Massai report cannot be trusted to have the evidence exactly right. (Unless the internet is wrong, which would normally be more likely to me if it didn't show it's corrobarating evidence.) But maybe I'm getting hoodwinked there.

In any case, the most convincing piece of evidence for me for the "staged break-in" is the difficulty of hanging onto a piece of wood with broken glass in it and hauling yourself up, toes on a sheer wall, and reaching in with your other hand through a small broken glass area and opening a latch. Unless he got lucky and it wasn't latched?

A big part of the case for me hinges on whether or not the burglary was staged. That being said, there still could be a case for the defense in that Meredith's scream caused Rudy to flee so he wouldn't get caught. He then, in a panic, and bloody, waited outside to see if he was in so much trouble he would have to leave the country immediately (having left his backpack inside). Realzing no one was coming, he returned and decided (this being his first murder) to figure out how to not go to jail. So he quickly showered (Is there ZERO dna of Rudy in the bathroom? If there is zero in there that is very damaging. Because someone who committed the murder went in there to clean up. Where is this person's DNA? ) That is unless, the murder started in the bathroom and went into the bedroom. And it was cleaned up afterwards? But that would have been revealed by luminol. Right? So the murder started and ended in the bedroom (correct? proven beyond any doubt at all right?)

Sorry I'm all over the place.

The defense did a presentation showing that it was indeed possible even the throwing of the rock which I did post a video of it going through the window.

The prosecution only presented the observations of FR as to the state of the glass based on her recollection. Of course this was after she was allowed into the room thus contaminating the room. There have been many discussions on this and the best one I can point you to is Ron Hendry

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/RonHendryindex2.html

ETA The video for the rock going through I believe I posted in the last thread or 2. It was part of an Italian newscast

 

[wasnt_me]

We also know from the video taken of the collection of the mop that it had a very long handle as can be seen when they were looking for the wrapping paper used from the cottage.

The picture of the bucket and what is said to be a mop is not the mop they took into evidence as it is very small thus I am more inclined to believe that the ones in the picture which appears to be an industrial one is probably something that is from the forensics team. Whatever is in that bucket is not the mop that we have all seen in the video being wrapped as evidence

I agree, but in RS's statements somewhere, he mentions bringing the mop bucket back. Why I believe him, I have no idea, since he's sitting around explaining nonexistent DNA on a knife in his house. So he could have just been explaining away the mop bucket because they pressed him about it, now that I think of it. I have to see if AK ever mentions a mop bucket.

 

[wasnt_me]

Filomena testified to the state of the shutters in 3 different positions. I don't seriously believe she knows what state those shutters were in. As well since we know they could not be closed properly and this had been told to the person owning the cottage, the fact that it was very windy the night of Nov 1st I could easily see how the shutters could blow open further

According to the ballistics expert the pattern was consistent with a rock being thrown from the outside. His testimony was not considered as he was not a rock throwing expert

Here is a link to the CCTV I believe it is of the night of the murder in which testimony confirmed it to be MK and RG

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgeJeYoNadA

In the video, I seriously do not know who i'm supposed to be looking at.

 

[wasnt_me]

Most bath mats have a rubber backing as the purpose of them is to prevent slippage thus to have her slip sliding down the hallway seems bizarre. As well from the luminol testing there is nothing to show that any cleanup had taken place and with slip sliding down the hallway on a bath mat would of showed up much the same way someone attempting to clean up would

I think this idea of her sliding down the hallway on it is simply another attempt to discredit her.

Yeah, but the thing about this bathmat is that it was just cloth on both sides I think. I remember seeing a picture of them flipping it over. I think it was the same kind of mat that was beside RF's bed, the one with all the glass on it that couldn't have traveled that far across the room in a fake break in. Still, I don't see anyone sliding on that material.

This ain't Tom Cruise in "Risky Business."

 

[wasnt_me]

Alright, I read somewhere else that another reason they believe it was staged is because the glass broken in the window meant it was too narrow to get through. So the person who would have broken in from the outside would have to reach into the window to unlatch it and open the swinging glass part in order to enter the room.

Is there no example of someone climbing that wall, avoiding the nail, and opening that glass window?

I get annoyed when the simple things aren't shown. If it's impossible to do the climb, then the prosecution should have shown that. If it's possible, then the defense should show it.

I'm kind of irked that this late in the game, the facts aren't clear. The massai report says the postal police arrived at 12:35, the internet says the CCTV camera is running too fast and has the images and corresponding cell phone calls to prove that the camera time stamp is in fact way off, and the postal police arrived later. Which means the Massai report cannot be trusted to have the evidence exactly right. (Unless the internet is wrong, which would normally be more likely to me if it didn't show it's corrobarating evidence.) But maybe I'm getting hoodwinked there.

In any case, the most convincing piece of evidence for me for the "staged break-in" is the difficulty of hanging onto a piece of wood with broken glass in it and hauling yourself up, toes on a sheer wall, and reaching in with your other hand through a small broken glass area and opening a latch. Unless he got lucky and it wasn't latched?

A big part of the case for me hinges on whether or not the burglary was staged. That being said, there still could be a case for the defense in that Meredith's scream caused Rudy to flee so he wouldn't get caught. He then, in a panic, and bloody, waited outside to see if he was in so much trouble he would have to leave the country immediately (having left his backpack inside). Realzing no one was coming, he returned and decided (this being his first murder) to figure out how to not go to jail. So he quickly showered (Is there ZERO dna of Rudy in the bathroom? If there is zero in there that is very damaging. Because someone who committed the murder went in there to clean up. Where is this person's DNA? ) That is unless, the murder started in the bathroom and went into the bedroom. And it was cleaned up afterwards? But that would have been revealed by luminol. Right? So the murder started and ended in the bedroom (correct? proven beyond any doubt at all right?)

Sorry I'm all over the place.

I just came on in April. It's not hard to catch up.

But we had some good threads about the break in, somewhere back around 9, 10, of this thing, I think. We had pictures and everything. I can try to find what we wrote to help you, but essentially you have to know that thing is only about 13 to 14 feet off the ground. If RG stood on the grate below, his should would be parallel to the windowsill because he was 6 feet tall. It's not that hard for him to reach up and that point and unlatch the window.

Additionally, we can't discount that FR might not even have locked the glass. Please read the expert opinion about the staged breakin at the link I gave you. It will explain a lot and you can form your own opinion of what is more believable. For enjoyment, you might go to youtube, and look up wall scaling or running up walls. You will see some kids do some AMAZING things to run up walls. I didn't even know it was possible myself, but I saw it.

 

[wasnt_me]

Alright, I read somewhere else that another reason they believe it was staged is because the glass broken in the window meant it was too narrow to get through. So the person who would have broken in from the outside would have to reach into the window to unlatch it and open the swinging glass part in order to enter the room.

Is there no example of someone climbing that wall, avoiding the nail, and opening that glass window?

I get annoyed when the simple things aren't shown. If it's impossible to do the climb, then the prosecution should have shown that. If it's possible, then the defense should show it.

I'm kind of irked that this late in the game, the facts aren't clear. The massai report says the postal police arrived at 12:35, the internet says the CCTV camera is running too fast and has the images and corresponding cell phone calls to prove that the camera time stamp is in fact way off, and the postal police arrived later. Which means the Massai report cannot be trusted to have the evidence exactly right. (Unless the internet is wrong, which would normally be more likely to me if it didn't show it's corrobarating evidence.) But maybe I'm getting hoodwinked there.

In any case, the most convincing piece of evidence for me for the "staged break-in" is the difficulty of hanging onto a piece of wood with broken glass in it and hauling yourself up, toes on a sheer wall, and reaching in with your other hand through a small broken glass area and opening a latch. Unless he got lucky and it wasn't latched?

A big part of the case for me hinges on whether or not the burglary was staged. That being said, there still could be a case for the defense in that Meredith's scream caused Rudy to flee so he wouldn't get caught. He then, in a panic, and bloody, waited outside to see if he was in so much trouble he would have to leave the country immediately (having left his backpack inside). Realzing no one was coming, he returned and decided (this being his first murder) to figure out how to not go to jail. So he quickly showered (Is there ZERO dna of Rudy in the bathroom? If there is zero in there that is very damaging. Because someone who committed the murder went in there to clean up. Where is this person's DNA? ) That is unless, the murder started in the bathroom and went into the bedroom. And it was cleaned up afterwards? But that would have been revealed by luminol. Right? So the murder started and ended in the bedroom (correct? proven beyond any doubt at all right?)

Sorry I'm all over the place.

I just came on in April. It's not hard to catch up.

But we had some good threads about the break in, somewhere back around 9, 10, of this thing, I think. We had pictures and everything. I can try to find what we wrote to help you, but essentially you have to know that thing is only about 13 to 14 feet off the ground. If RG stood on the grate below, his should would be parallel to the windowsill because he was 6 feet tall. It's not that hard for him to reach up and that point and unlatch the window.

Additionally, we can't discount that FR might not even have locked the glass. Please read the expert opinion about the staged breakin at the link I gave you. It will explain a lot and you can form your own opinion of what is more believable. For enjoyment, you might go to youtube, and look up wall scaling or running up walls. You will see some kids do some AMAZING things to run up walls. I didn't even know it was possible myself, but I saw it.

 

[dgfred]

It's a picture of the "blonde hair" collected from Meredith's body. Massei explains this in his report:

That is no wool... I will try to get a pic up here asap.

 

[Allusonz]

I agree, but in RS's statements somewhere, he mentions bringing the mop bucket back. Why I believe him, I have no idea, since he's sitting around explaining nonexistent DNA on a knife in his house. So he could have just been explaining away the mop bucket because they pressed him about it, now that I think of it. I have to see if AK ever mentions a mop bucket.

Yes he does state they brought it back and IIRC stated that it was placed in the hallway, I simply forget where I found that. I know I found the cite now just to find it again rofl