Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[otto]

otto,

I am not sure why he had to climb 2-3 times. He could have opened the outer shutters (if they were partially closed) with a stick, and he could have thrown the rock from the parapet. Rudy did not have much success at fencing a computer previously, he probably needed cash right away for rent money, and he may not have had much time before Meredith returned. MOO.

If it's all as easy as you say, why has no one been able to reproduce this wall-scaling stick-carrying rock-tossing window-entering activity in the four years since the murder?

 

[otto]

My own opinion is that Filomena's room was already cluttered and messy, and that Guede gave this point of entry little or no attention as he proceeded to the interior of the cottage. It appears logical that at some point he opened Laura's drawer to see what was inside.

Beyond that, based on Guede's Skype conversation we know that he took a drink from the fridge. Perhaps he did this almost immediately. My understanding is that some burglars experience a certain frisson or thrill from making themselves at home in a space they have broken into. So I would posit that Guede took the drink very soon after arriving, and then nature called.

I'll relate a personal story that, in my opinion, is pertinent. About ten years ago, a late-night burglary attempt was made on my apartment at the time in Los Angeles. The trick is that my girlfriend and I were in the apartment, asleep on the living room sofa. We had both apparently fallen asleep to a DVD and the room was dimly lit only by the blue screen of the television. I was stirred from my sleep and looked up to see an African American man about 6' 1" crossing into the room toward the electronics. He did not seem to even notice us, but was intent on a path that I assume was his MO.

Instincts took over and I leaped up from the couch and yelled "Who the hell are you?!" Obviously surprised, he replied sheepishly "Who are you?" I groped for something on the coffee table that would serve as a weapon and screamed back "Who am I? I live here!" As my girlfriend cowered on the sofa, he raced past me, back into the hallway and out the same bedroom window he had entered.

After I collected myself and consoled my girlfriend, I went into my bedroom. The burglar had left the room completely untouched. My Rolex Sea Dweller still on the nightstand, my laptop still on the desk.

Again, I think many burglars have an MO, and they are of course initially on their toes as they enter a space with which they are unfamiliar, and which may or may not contain human inhabitants.

BBM Quite true. The only way to eliminate the room being ransacked prior to the staged break in to change the facts of the case such that Filomina is a liar and a slob. Any thoughts on why neither Laura nor Knox have stepped forward an unilaterally exposed Filomina as a liar and slob? If it is true that Filomina liked to open her wardrobe and toss her clothes on the floor, wouldn't someone be aware of this odd behavior?

Attacking the character of witnesses will not change the facts of the case. The room was ransacked, the glass was broken, nothing was stolen.

 

[Allusonz]

Article from Oggi reprinted by Dempsey not sure if this had been posted previously or not

10 new reasons why Amanda Knox must go free

“After 4 years, hundreds of hearings, two sets of proceedings, endless plot twists, the trial of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito has reached the final corner,” says Oggi magazine in the cover story translated below. “The ruling is expected at the latest by Oct. 2. In Perugia, absolution is in the air after 4 years. That’s the thinking of nearly all journalists covering the case, the hope of the families of the accused. It’s the fear of the prosecutors, who told British reporters they ‘expect defeat.’”

http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/2011/09/15/10-reasons-why-amanda-knox-must-go-free/

 

[Chris_Halkides]

otto,

I think that Rudy was after the girls' rent money for the reasons I have already given. Please explain why you think otherwise. BTW, I don't think that Filomena is lying; I think her memory is changing to fit her opinion on AK an RS's guilt. I also think that her taking the computer out of the bag changed the distribution of glass, or at least that is what I recall of her testimony.

 

[Allusonz]

BBM Quite true. The only way to eliminate the room being ransacked prior to the staged break in to change the facts of the case such that Filomina is a liar and a slob. Any thoughts on why neither Laura nor Knox have stepped forward an unilaterally exposed Filomina as a liar and slob? If it is true that Filomina liked to open her wardrobe and toss her clothes on the floor, wouldn't someone be aware of this odd behavior?

Attacking the character of witnesses will not change the facts of the case. The room was ransacked, the glass was broken, nothing was stolen.

It is my opinion as well that if you look at the photos it was a very cluttered room with little space to store items. I don't believe that RG would be interested in personal items i see strewn on the table etc thus it is my opinion that this room was not totally ransacked

 

[Allusonz]

FH,

Yes of course he did not know how much time he had, but it still might have been a short time. However, I also lean toward a scenario where he is looking through drawers for rent money (which is payed in cash, IIUC) when nature called. Either of those two things (or both) might lead to a scenario where he ignores items that have to be fenced.

His own rent money was due. It is not easy to fence items immediately thus I must agree that the purpose was looking for cash, not items that would take time to fence

 

[Allusonz]

However opening the outer shutters with a stick becomes difficult if they are wedged closed and you are standing at a distance from the shutters. I would also imagine there would have been a significantly sized stick lying around for the investigators to see.

Rudy would not have known how much time he had or did not have before Meredith returned. My point was he walked right by the laptop and did not even attempt to take it, yet he rifled through clothes in closets/cabinets. That just seems strange to me. If you think about him entering through the window, then what does he do next - start pulling clothes out of cabinets - then the upset stomach? It almost appears as if he knew exactly what he was looking for and it was something someone would hide in amongst clothes, which makes no sense. I cannot think of any narrative for that first 5-10 minutes that makes sense.

FH

I have often been perplexed at how it is automatically assumed the shutters were closed/latched especially after testimony stating that they were not closed, could not be closed properly due to swelling, as well as it being a very windy night.

One thing that I don't often see referred to is that if one looks at the photographs the shutters to the other window are open as well, thus why must it be assumed that these were shut and latched when in fact quite the opposite could of been the case

 

[Allusonz]

But Rudy had been caught with a stolen laptop in the past so this statement does not particularly apply to this situation.

Do you have any kind of statistics about murder and sexual assault being a fairly common consequence of burglary interruptions? In particular I would think the sexual assault part of it would not be common. I could see a murder happening in an escalating situation but honestly at that point I would think a burgular would be pretty freaked out and not likely to hang around for a sexual assault. Just my opinion - I have not researched the issue.

FH

Maybe he learned a lesson from being caught with a stolen laptop

 

[Allusonz]

It looks to me like you are assuming the cottage storage shed would block the view from the balcony. From above they appear the same height but in reality it is not. From the slight elevation of the road, the balcony should still be visible.

You are quite correct. With the view from the road the balcony can easily be seen from some distance

 

[otto]

otto,

I think that Rudy was after the girls' rent money for the reasons I have already given. Please explain why you think otherwise. BTW, I don't think that Filomena is lying; I think her memory is changing to fit her opinion on AK an RS's guilt. I also think that her taking the computer out of the bag changed the distribution of glass, or at least that is what I recall of her testimony.

It was late at night on Nov 1. Rent money is usually due at the end of the month. There was no reason whatsoever for Rudy to assume that there was any rent money in the cottage. For all he knew, rent was paid with post dated cheques. The only person that knew the rent money had not yet been paid, and that it was paid in cash, was Knox.

 

[Allusonz]

I removed all the posts of the dark picture. The better way to approach this I think is just to provide a link to the video where ever it is located.

Thanks,

Salem

There may be a problem for some if they cannot become members for various reasons. This is simply a FYI only as some files cannot be viewed otherwise

 

[js202]

BBM Quite true. The only way to eliminate the room being ransacked prior to the staged break in to change the facts of the case such that Filomina is a liar and a slob. Any thoughts on why neither Laura nor Knox have stepped forward an unilaterally exposed Filomina as a liar and slob? If it is true that Filomina liked to open her wardrobe and toss her clothes on the floor, wouldn't someone be aware of this odd behavior?

Attacking the character of witnesses will not change the facts of the case. The room was ransacked, the glass was broken, nothing was stolen.

I have "attacked" the character of no witness, whatsoever. I have only given my opinion. It is certainly possible that Filomena's notions of what constitutes mess and clutter are different from my own.

A look at photos of her room will reveal what I would characterize as (barely) organized clutter on the nightstand, desk, bed and floor. Although I understand that Filomena was working at a local attorney's office, I have certainly seen college dorm rooms and apartments with similar clutter. Perhaps Guede rummaged through her closet and tossed out some clothes. There is no proof, whatsoever, that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did this. Any claim to the contrary is more special pleading and theorizing, because the actual physical evidence is insufficient to incriminate them.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

 

[otto]

It looks to me like you are assuming the cottage storage shed would block the view from the balcony. From above they appear the same height but in reality it is not. From the slight elevation of the road, the balcony should still be visible.

Then why not post a picture of the balcony from the road instead of from the far end of the top of the parking lot?

 

[js202]

It was late at night on Nov 1. Rent money is usually due at the end of the month. There was no reason whatsoever for Rudy to assume that there was any rent money in the cottage. For all he knew, rent was paid with post dated cheques. The only person that knew the rent money had not yet been paid, and that it was paid in cash, was Knox.

In every country I've ever visited or lived in, rent is due at the 1st of the month. Often there is a three to five day grace period. As an experienced burglar, Guede had every reason to assume that maybe there was some money in the apartment. But I suspect he did not break into the Perugian attorney's office, nor the Milanese elementary school necessarily looking for cash money.

 

[otto]

I have "attacked" the character of no witness, whatsoever. I have only given my opinion. It is certainly possible that Filomena's notions of what constitutes mess and clutter are different from my own.

A look at photos of her room will reveal what I would characterize as (barely) organized clutter on the nightstand, desk, bed and floor. Although I understand that Filomena was working at a local attorney's office, I have certainly seen college dorm rooms and apartments with similar clutter. Perhaps Guede rummaged through her closet and tossed out some clothes. There is no proof, whatsoever, that Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito did this. Any claim to the contrary is more special pleading and theorizing, because the actual physical evidence is insufficient to incriminate them.

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/PhotoGallery3.html

Filomina is not a student and the cottage is not a college dorm. Why would you compare a fully employed woman like Filomina to a college dorm student?

 

[js202]

Filomina is not a student and the cottage is not a college dorm. Why would you compare a fully employed woman like Filomina to a college dorm student?

Did you even notice that I mentioned exactly that in my post? Did you look at the photos?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

It was late at night on Nov 1. Rent money is usually due at the end of the month. There was no reason whatsoever for Rudy to assume that there was any rent money in the cottage. For all he knew, rent was paid with post dated cheques. The only person that knew the rent money had not yet been paid, and that it was paid in cash, was Knox.

otto,

To the best of my understanding, rent was payed in cash. This was a holiday weekend, and the rent may have been due later.

 

[otto]

In every country I've ever visited or lived in, rent is due at the 1st of the month. Often there is a three to five day grace period. As an experienced burglar, Guede had every reason to assume that maybe there was some money in the apartment. But I suspect he did not break into the Perugian attorney's office, nor the Milanese elementary school necessarily looking for cash money.

Okay, the rent was due on the first of the month. Why would Guede assume that on the night of the first of the month, the rent money would be in cash and not yet paid? If he was breaking in to steal rent money, it would be better to do that on Oct 31, not Nov 1.

A lot of assumptions have to be made before it can be argued that Guede broke into the cottage to steal rent money:

1. that no one was home
2. that rent was paid in cash
3. that the cash was in the house and not in the bank
4. that the rent was being paid late that particular month
5. that the rent was not paid with post-dated cheques
6. that the person collecting the rent had not already done so and deposited the cash in the bank

... on and on ... there is too much risk in making all those assumptions since there was a very high probability that the rent had already been paid and was no longer in the cottage.

 

[otto]

Did you even notice that I mentioned exactly that in my post? Did you look at the photos?

I don't click on blog links, so no I didn't look at photos on another blog.

Stating that Filomina is not a student living in a dorm, and then proceeding to discuss messy dorm students doesn't exactly follow. She was not a dorm student and there is absolutely no reason to believe that this fully employed woman threw her clothes on the floor.

 

[Allusonz]

Okay, the rent was due on the first of the month. Why would Guede assume that on the night of the first of the month, the rent money would be in cash and not yet paid? If he was breaking in to steal rent money, it would be better to do that on Oct 31, not Nov 1.

A lot of assumptions have to be made before it can be argued that Guede broke into the cottage to steal rent money:

1. that no one was home
2. that rent was paid in cash
3. that the cash was in the house and not in the bank
4. that the rent was being paid late that particular month
5. that the rent was not paid with post-dated cheques
6. that the person collecting the rent had not already done so and deposited the cash in the bank

... on and on ... there is too much risk in making all those assumptions since there was a very high probability that the rent had already been paid and was no longer in the cottage.

There is one item I would like to point out that is often not referred to when it comes to this particular breakin.

Maybe RG knew or found out that MK would be looking after the plants in the bottom level and would have the keys to that area. In an area with that many college students maybe the real motvie was not for the money maybe it was for the keys to access the pot so that it could be sold easily and quickly for money