Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[Malkmus]

Of course.

Well, I'm just glad the "conspiracy theory" accusations can now be dropped.

 

[Allusonz]

More from that:



It certainly sounds like they are no longer employing Maresca as their lawyer. It has been my belief that he alone has been their source of "official" information on this case, in which case it's easy to see why they are so mystified by the current acquittal. I don't think Maresca was completely open with them about the evidence in the first place.

If the Kercher's, AK, and RS were smart they would group together and bring suit against the investigators. This investigation was bungled from the beginnings as so many of us know

 

[SMK]

I still base my opinion on the evidence whether it was rejected by the court or not. The difference is just that I am not a judge but still can understand and accept how the system works. So in a way we can both be right.

In light of your first sentence, Hellman viewed the evidence differently, so I still believe only one of you may be in the right. But I agree, there is no point going on about it. I am just surprised you do not reject Hellman the way we rejected Massei. If it goes to the Supreme Court, and Hellman is overturned, I believe you will reject him at that point.

 

[Allusonz]

*Snipped*. Your 'facts' claim exactly the same as was just discussed a few pages back. The words come from Luca Maori, a defense lawyer. All the other articles are based on what the defense lawyer said. They were putting words in the mouths of the prosecutors. You are quoting the defense lawyer.

To refer to a 'commom thread' here is laughable. This is a very unfriendly thread towards anyone with a different opinion other than 'sweet innocent Amanda'. Most people with a different opinion simply couldn't be bothered to participate here (anymore). This thread stand outs (negatively) from all other threads here on websleuths. Very strange. JMO.

I believe that if this indeed had not been stated by Mignini he would of charged them. The fact that he did indeed state this along with many others without any of them being investigated or charged tells the story

 

[SMK]

I believe that if this indeed had not been stated by Mignini he would of charged them. The fact that he did indeed state this along with many others without any of them being investigated or charged tells the story

That is an excellent point, as we know Mignini does not tolerate falsehood being spread about him in the press.

 

[Allusonz]

Hard pressed after two hours of questioning as a witness shortly after dinner and with a year of work and a year of university under her belt?

Amanda was no naive child. She finished high school, took a year off, then completed a year of general studies at the University in Washington and then found herself in Germany. She blew off a gov't job that her uncle arranged for her because it was boring. She pretended to be sick for the next two weeks, living in the apartment that was attached to the job, getting stoned in the park and doing who knows what on the train to Perugia ... ciao sucker to her uncle. That's Knox before the murder. She was all grown up.

Fast forward a month, she's hooked up with just the right guy, it's the Day of the Dead, her roommate is murdered, and she's suffering lapses of confused imaginings or dreamed realities, telling whopper lies and has no alibi.

It didn't seem real that she was landing in Seattle. The scream and murder were described in her statement, but when she had to explain herself in court she claimed that the scream and murder didn't seem real. Whata a gal! At least we know that when she says that things don't seem real, they are real. She did land in Seattle, even though it was no more real than the scream and the murder ... for Knox and her confused imaginings and dreamed realities.

What is being ignored in this theory is that AK went to school during the day then was questioned into the early morning hours and the investigators "rinsed and repeated" over the ensuing days

 

[Allusonz]

I think it's important to remember that judges are not normally voted into positions. That seems to be the way it is with prosecutors and judges in the US. In most countries, judges and prosecutors are promoted based on merit. Politics and votes have nothing to do with it. In Italy, it is non-political<modsnip>

The problem I have with this statement is that it is assumed that the posters here are basing their opinions on the US system. What is forgotten is that many of us are not from the US and in fact other countries as well do not vote in judges/prosecutors to the role.

 

[Malkmus]

(snipped)
To refer to a 'commom thread' here is laughable. This is a very unfriendly thread towards anyone with a different opinion other than 'sweet innocent Amanda'. Most people with a different opinion simply couldn't be bothered to participate here (anymore). This thread stand outs (negatively) from all other threads here on websleuths. Very strange. JMO.

I think both sides are often at fault with causing things to get out of hand here. To make it one-sided and say that this thread is unfriendly towards anyone with a differing opinion is untrue. Generally speaking, any well-mannered posts are treated with the same courtesy, and vice versa for snarky, sarcastic, and condescending ones.

 

[stilettos]

Lordy be....I never thought Amanda was particularly innocent in the social sense of the word...just completely innocent in the legal sense of the word. There is no need to convict this young woman of murder because she smoked a little smoke and had some intimate knowledge of certain men.

 

[SMK]

I think both sides are often at fault with causing things to get out of hand here. To make it one-sided and say that this thread is unfriendly towards anyone with a differing opinion is untrue. Generally speaking, any well-mannered posts are treated with the same courtesy, and vice versa for snarky, sarcastic, and condescending ones.

I agree, nor does the Murder of Meredith Kercher thread stand out from other ones on Websleuths. Any time I said anything in defense of Casey Anthony, I met with extreme resistance. Bickering, so long as it does not get ugly, is sort of the point of these forums. Without debate, it would be fanatical, like some sites I can think of.

 

[SMK]

It didn't seem real that she was landing in Seattle. The scream and murder were described in her statement, but when she had to explain herself in court she claimed that the scream and murder didn't seem real. Whata a gal! At least we know that when she says that things don't seem real, they are real. She did land in Seattle, even though it was no more real than the scream and the murder ... for Knox and her confused imaginings and dreamed realities.

Odd that you should bring this up. When she said this, I immediately pictured Mignini watching it, and turning to those he was with, as though the statement resonated with her past words. Very odd.:waitasec: ETA: And yet, if what she says is unreal is actually real, then PL may have been there...

 

[SMK]

Snipped from a longer post on JREF, and to me, has always been the crux of the thing: I would love to hear how anyone who believes in their guilt here, can get around this fact, which to me is the main fact, all else being symptom, consequence, incident of this first:

If the murder went down this way, how come only Rudy Guede,
the poor black guy, only left his DNA, his palmprint, his fingerprints there?

Please don't insult my low IQ and say that Amanda and Raffael did a very detailed, selective clean-up that only removed all microscopic traces of their participation, but left Rudy's to be found. That just will not fly with this high school graduate, a member of the court of public opinion!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7649284&posted=1#post7649284

addendum: I assume this is the part which media say will now be edited out of the Lifetime movie.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Going slightly off topic and back to Hellman's statement - the more I think on it, the more I appreciate it. He's very canny. He has to walk a very fine line, given how judges are appointed in Italy, and he needed to come across as impartial to all. He did such a good job writing it, that both sides of this debate are really able to quibble over it and argue different interpretations. I'll be interested to see the full opinion when it's released, as I'm curious to see if it will be more strongly worded.

 

[SMK]

As brought to my attention on JREF, the Kerchers are beginning to ask questions:

Meredith's frail-looking mother Arline, 65, said: "We are talking to our lawyers... " But then Stephanie interrupted: "We want to find out, if they are not guilty who is."

Arline was asked if she thought Knox was innocent and added: "I don't really know at the moment &#8212; I just had the verdict and no explanation. It has been a difficult few years let alone difficult few days."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ut-the-fight-goes-on-for-Meredith-family.html

 

[SMK]

Washington Post interview with Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock:

For the past several years, Frank Sfarzo has covered every hearing of the Knox trial on his blog, Perugia Shock, which he created in 2007 just days after the murder. The blog became widely read around the world in part because it was the only Italian blog written in English, but also because Sfarzo had a way of obtaining inside information, and because no detail was too obscure for the blog.

In a post entitled &#8220;A Tribute to Frank Sfarzo,&#8221; a crime blogger who goes by &#8220;Maundy Gregory&#8221; writes : &#8220;You want pictures of the knife? Frank&#8217;s your guy. Something about starch? Non c&#8217;è problema. A printout of Meredith Kercher&#8217;s DNA? Click here.&#8221;

Sfarzo started out as an objective observer of the case, even releasing details that could have condemned Knox. But over the years, he became increasingly convinced of Knox&#8217;s innocence, and starting using the blog to lobby for her release.

In May, Google shut down the blog after the head prosecutor of the case, Guiliano Mignini, filed a suit against Perugia Shock for &#8220;defamation, carried out by means of a Web site.&#8221;

Sfarzo kept writing, at a new Wordpress blog located here.

Last night, Sfarzo took a few minutes to talk to us over the phone from Perugia about the verdict.

Q. So how do you feel? Why do you think the court came to the verdict it did?

A. This is a very happy day. I think the court made this decision because it recognized there was absolutely no evidence against Amanda.

Q. What has been the reaction in Italy?

A. The people outside the courtroom have gathered around yelling &#8220;Shame! Shame!&#8221; There are many young, drunk people there protesting against the case. People attached the first lawyer who came out of the courtroom, and he had to escape. Many of these people don&#8217;t know the case but were just reading all the articles, and they think she is guilty. People in Italy who have actually followed the case, some journalists, are sure she is innocent.

Q. How did you become convinced of Knox&#8217;s innocence?

A. I had the feeling that she was innocent from the beginning, but I tried to trust the prosecution when they said they had evidence about her. After I managed to obtain most of the documents from the trial, I said that this girl is absolutely innocent.

Q. How has this case made you think differently about the justice system in Italy, if at all?

A. It seems to me the court did not follow the law. A court is supposed to follow both the defendant and prosecutor. For a long time, they didn&#8217;t do that, and that&#8217;s why the miscarriage of justice happened until yesterday. This case showed that those in charge of the law in Italy don&#8217;t respect the law. The law must be respected precisely.

Q. Why did you devote so many years to this endeavor?

A. There was already one girl who was killed, I didn&#8217;t want another girl to be killed, in another way, or be in jail for the rest of her life... I&#8217;m just very happy that two lives [Knox and Sollecito] have been saved tonight.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-frank-sfarzo/2011/10/04/gIQAa7hhKL_blog.html

 

[SmoothOperator]

I believe Amanda is innocent.

I think she cracked under days of questioning without a break... a lawyer... sleep... etc.*
I think many people who think that they would NOT crack under that pressure should actually be put in that situation.*
I don't think I would, because I know how LE works... but until I am actually put in that situation I am not going to judge someone else.*
I also wouldn't join a cult and didn't put up with abusive relationships. I don't judge others for doing those things either.

I do think it is possible that she was not 100% emotionally healthy at the time this all happened.
I think that MIGHT be why people still aren't sure that she is genuine.*
She got very close a guy very quickly. That can indicate several different things.*

IF she did have some sort of personality disorder/mental illness that was manifesting itself at the time... she was in a foreign country... away from family... that could also cause her to come across as less than genuine.

I also think that the shocking, overwhelming, unbelievable nature of the whole situation would definitely make her emotions out of whack.*
I'm not surprised she still seems a bit "off" right now. :twocents:

I couldn't agree more with Ms. Facetious post ^above^!!
This is a case i rarely if ever post on, tho have followed it since way back when I was still just a lurker.. I've never felt as tho I had anything of substance to add but the Main reason is that I haven't ever been able to express what was my true opinion, view, or exactly how I have long since believed and/or felt things to be.. There has been a continental divide between the opinions and view expressed about Amanda and about the case and they are in stark contrast of one other to an extreme(there are other cases where this too applies, but overall not too many that seem to be as black and white, polar opposite with no gray area in between).. I may not be explaining myself and how I see things very well but hopefully I can manage to make my thoughts halfway understandable:crazy:.. But Ms. Facetious has definitely opened the door and made the way for me to be able to even make this attempt at explaining my thoughts on Amanda and this case..

Going back to the beginning I, as many, was leery of Amanda and Raphaella's involvement.. Mainly IMO due to how it was portrayed in the media.. When the first big media surge of Amanda and this case took form in The 20/20 or Dateline special(am speaking media in US).. And I truly went away feeling as tho it was attempting to sway me into believing Amanda was this innocent, meek, girl who had nothing to do with her flatmates murder.. That feeling was not a good one IMO and whoever was in charge of painting this case to us, here in the U.S.(Many who were not closely monitoring the play by play over in Italy).. IMO a poor choice was made to overly paint the picture of Amanda Knox..

I want to go ahead and make an important point.. All in all what is of importance here is the guilt or innocence of these two in the murder of Meredith Kercher.. Not who or what these two people are, or their behaviors, or their past.. That truly is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of the subject at hand.. But coincidentally I believe that is the exact mistake that was made in many of the Amanda support efforts.. IMO the evidence was not there, period and end of story.. IMO that's what should have and is All that needed to be driven home to prove to us that she wasn't involved(and I am speaking specifically of us, here in the U.S. The Italian court system is a completely separate and scary subject in and of itself).. In this portraying of Amanda, and I can only speak for myself here but it has always come across as fake as fake can be.. This IMO is what has left some people leery of Amanda.. In that feeling there's just something not right.. Almost a feeling of the wool pulled over someone's eyes.. A poster this week made the statement, or better yet inquiry of "why does it feel as tho we've been manipulated and just been railroaded by this woman?" (not direct quote but close).. And IMO I truly believe it is this sense that some are left with in feeling that Amanda is not who the pro-movement has drilled into our heads of a naive, sweet, meek young woman.. Before I get flamed.. Let me reiterate that in the end this is irrelevant, the importance is that these two were rightly freed and proven to not have had involvement in Meredith's murder.. That is what is important and that justice we finally saw earlier this week.. But what I am attempting to explain is why IMO there are those that are left with a feeling as tho they've been manipulated or deceived in who it is that Amanda Knox is..

Now, I am capable of seeing the original intent of those portraying Amanda this way was strictly done because of this prosecutor who was behaving like a crazy and very unstable psych patient that literally got away with his ludicrous accusations and theories that he presented to the world as if they were written in stone fact! *It is reprehensible what this has done and downright criminal.. So, believe me I understand where the need was felt to somehow reverse these outlandish claims and descriptions of who "FoxyKnoxy" was/is(which many believe this sexy moniker was given Amanda by this evil prosecutor or reckless media.. But honestly it was the username Amanda had given herself on social media sites.. Which personally I never thought was "sexy" or inappropriate but rather cute and appropriate for a girl with the name Knox).. But I totally understand why it was felt that in order to somehow neutralize the villianess that the prosecutor had painted to the world and hence the exact reason for the need to portray Amanda as "virginal" as possible(not literally but a desperate need to counteract the witch/*advertiser censored* claims that were being made).. I understand the reason behind it and I understand that many have stood firm by that portrait painted to counteract the evil portrait that had been painted.. I know many may even wholeheartedly believe the portrait that was painted of Amanda to neutralize the horrible picture in the courts and media.. But IMO I don't and I believe that it is directly because of the desperate measures taken to reverse to horrific rep that Amanda suddenly hAd that went overboard the exact opposite end of the spectrum from the witch/*advertiser censored* to the innocent/goody girl.. Those of us whose intuitions are highly sensitive and pick up on even small deceptions I believe this is what we are sensing.. This is the "bad taste left In one's mouth".. Our intuition is picking up on this deceit that was drilled into our heads of sweet, virginal to counteract the claims of her being an evil witch.. I understand why it was it done, and in repeating myself again, I understand that Amanda's reputation and who or what she did does not matter here.. It is her being found NOT GUILTY of a murder she did NOT commit is what is of importance.. And my only reason for even attempting to do this piss poor job of explaining why it is that some of us have this strange, hinky, or untrusting feeling we have about Amanda.. That is my only reason for this post.. It is not to debate with anyone about how I think the real Amanda is.. Nor is it to bad mouth or demean Amanda Knox..

It is purely for the sole reason of hoping to help some understand why it is that some of us have had these odd, untrusting, hinky feelings and where IMO they come from.. That's it.. I understand why it was done and I just want to help others understand that due to portrait painted in the extreme opposite end of the spectrum.. It left some of us with sensitive intuitions to pick up on the parts of the portrait that IMO were embellished or fabricated.. IMO neither portrait that has been painted of Amanda Knox is accurate or represents who the real Amanda is(neither the evil Italian portrait or the meek, mild, naive portrait are true representations of who Amanda Knox is).. And now hopefully with time, now that she has her freedom rightly returned to her.. In time she, herself will paint the portrait of who the real Amanda Knox is..

These are jmo and nothing more..

ETA: my post ^above^ is not meant to be on either side of this fence.. As far as Amanda's Involvement in Meredith's murder I am wholeheartedly on the NOT GUILTY SIDE.. this post is just an attempt to explain some people's view(represented by a very small amount of posters here in Amanda's forum, but out in the real world I know of many who feel similarly).. This is nothing more than trying to explain why..

 

[OldSteve]

Amanda Knox Trying to Break Habit of Speaking Italian

http://news.yahoo.com/amanda-knox-trying-break-habit-speaking-italian-133432658.html

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time to move past the past, anything else is :deadhorse:

 

[SMK]

I couldn't agree more with Ms. Facetious post ^above^!!
This is a case i rarely if ever post on, tho have followed it since way back when I was still just a lurker.. I've never felt as tho I had anything of substance to add but the Main reason is that I haven't ever been able to express what was my true opinion, view, or exactly how I have long since believed and/or felt things to be.. There has been a continental divide between the opinions and view expressed about Amanda and about the case and they are in stark contrast of one other to an extreme(there are other cases where this too applies, but overall not too many that seem to be as black and white, polar opposite with no gray area in between).. I may not be explaining myself and how I see things very well but hopefully I can manage to make my thoughts halfway understandable:crazy:.. But Ms. Facetious has definitely opened the door and made the way for me to be able to even make this attempt at explaining my thoughts on Amanda and this case..

Going back to the beginning I, as many, was leery of Amanda and Raphaella's involvement.. Mainly IMO due to how it was portrayed in the media.. When the first big media surge of Amanda and this case took form in The 20/20 or Dateline special(am speaking media in US).. And I truly went away feeling as tho it was attempting to sway me into believing Amanda was this innocent, meek, girl who had nothing to do with her flatmates murder.. That feeling was not a good one IMO and whoever was in charge of painting this case to us, here in the U.S.(Many who were not closely monitoring the play by play over in Italy).. IMO a poor choice was made to overly paint the picture of Amanda Knox..

I want to go ahead and make an important point.. All in all what is of importance here is the guilt or innocence of these two in the murder of Meredith Kercher.. Not who or what these two people are, or their behaviors, or their past.. That truly is absolutely irrelevant in the grand scheme of the subject at hand.. But coincidentally I believe that is the exact mistake that was made in many of the Amanda support efforts.. IMO the evidence was not there, period and end of story.. IMO that's what should have and is All that needed to be driven home to prove to us that she wasn't involved(and I am speaking specifically of us, here in the U.S. The Italian court system is a completely separate and scary subject in and of itself).. In this portraying of Amanda, and I can only speak for myself here but it has always come across as fake as fake can be.. This IMO is what has left some people leery of Amanda.. In that feeling there's just something not right.. Almost a feeling of the wool pulled over someone's eyes.. A poster this week made the statement, or better yet inquiry of "why does it feel as tho we've been manipulated and just been railroaded by this woman?" (not direct quote but close).. And IMO I truly believe it is this sense that some are left with in feeling that Amanda is not who the pro-movement has drilled into our heads of a naive, sweet, meek young woman.. Before I get flamed.. Let me reiterate that in the end this is irrelevant, the importance is that these two were rightly freed and proven to not have had involvement in Meredith's murder.. That is what is important and that justice we finally saw earlier this week.. But what I am attempting to explain is why IMO there are those that are left with a feeling as tho they've been manipulated or deceived in who it is that Amanda Knox is..

Now, I am capable of seeing the original intent of those portraying Amanda this way was strictly done because of this prosecutor who was behaving like a crazy and very unstable psych patient that literally got away with his ludicrous accusations and theories that he presented to the world as if they were written in stone fact! *It is reprehensible what this has done and downright criminal.. So, believe me I understand where the need was felt to somehow reverse these outlandish claims and descriptions of who "FoxyKnoxy" was/is(which many believe this sexy moniker was given Amanda by this evil prosecutor or reckless media.. But honestly it was the username Amanda had given herself on social media sites.. Which personally I never thought was "sexy" or inappropriate but rather cute and appropriate for a girl with the name Knox).. But I totally understand why it was felt that in order to somehow neutralize the villianess that the prosecutor had painted to the world and hence the exact reason for the need to portray Amanda as "virginal" as possible(not literally but a desperate need to counteract the witch/*advertiser censored* claims that were being made).. I understand the reason behind it and I understand that many have stood firm by that portrait painted to counteract the evil portrait that had been painted.. I know many may even wholeheartedly believe the portrait that was painted of Amanda to neutralize the horrible picture in the courts and media.. But IMO I don't and I believe that it is directly because of the desperate measures taken to reverse to horrific rep that Amanda suddenly hAd that went overboard the exact opposite end of the spectrum from the witch/*advertiser censored* to the innocent/goody girl.. Those of us whose intuitions are highly sensitive and pick up on even small deceptions I believe this is what we are sensing.. This is the "bad taste left In one's mouth".. Our intuition is picking up on this deceit that was drilled into our heads of sweet, virginal to counteract the claims of her being an evil witch.. I understand why it was it done, and in repeating myself again, I understand that Amanda's reputation and who or what she did does not matter here.. It is her being found NOT GUILTY of a murder she did NOT commit is what is of importance.. And my only reason for even attempting to do this piss poor job of explaining why it is that some of us have this strange, hinky, or untrusting feeling we have about Amanda.. That is my only reason for this post.. It is not to debate with anyone about how I think the real Amanda is.. Nor is it to bad mouth or demean Amanda Knox..

It is purely for the sole reason of hoping to help some understand why it is that some of us have had these odd, untrusting, hinky feelings and where IMO they come from.. That's it.. I understand why it was done and I just want to help others understand that due to portrait painted in the extreme opposite end of the spectrum.. It left some of us with sensitive intuitions to pick up on the parts of the portrait that IMO were embellished or fabricated.. IMO neither portrait that has been painted of Amanda Knox is accurate or represents who the real Amanda is(neither the evil Italian portrait or the meek, mild, naive portrait are true representations of who Amanda Knox is).. And now hopefully with time, now that she has her freedom rightly returned to her.. In time she, herself will paint the portrait of who the real Amanda Knox is..

These are jmo and nothing more..

ETA: my post ^above^ is not meant to be on either side of this fence.. As far as Amanda's Involvement in Meredith's murder I am wholeheartedly on the NOT GUILTY SIDE.. this post is just an attempt to explain some people's view(represented by a very small amount of posters here in Amanda's forum, but out in the real world I know of many who feel similarly).. This is nothing more than trying to explain why..

I would agree, character assassination or a pollyanna-ish building up of Knox are both beside the point. Even is she had been a heroin addict or a prostitute, if she was not there and did not commit the murder, she should not be incarcerated for that crime.

 

[OldSteve]

Got to wonder if Amanda will ever make use of the Italian she learned... It's a strange twist IMO...wonder what her feeling will be for Italy and it's people once the proverbial dust settles?

 

[SMK]

Got to wonder if Amanda will ever make use of the Italian she learned... It's a strange twist IMO...wonder what her feeling will be for Italy and it's people once the proverbial dust settles?

She told reporters in Rome that she would like to return, but she had best be careful, yikes!
BTW, I liked your "beating a dead horse" signature!:great: