Metro-North Train Derailed, Carriages May Be In Water

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NTSB: 2nd data recorder found in derailed NY train

JIM FITZGERALD, AP
34 minutes ago

NEW YORK (AP) — Two data recorders retrieved from the commuter train that veered off a sharply curved track by a river's edge, killing four people, may shed light on key factors including the train's speed and how brakes were applied, a National Transportation Safety Board member said Monday as the agency sought to ask the engineer and conductor what went wrong.

The NTSB was downloading data from a recorder previously found in the rear locomotive in the Metro-North Railroad train that derailed Sunday in New York. A second recorder was found in the front car of the train and has been sent to Washington for analysis, NTSB board member Earl Weener said.

Investigators have already had some success in retrieving data, but the information has to be validated before it's made public, Weener said...

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20131202/US--NYC.Train.Derailment/
 
Was just listening to the press conference on CNN. The train was going 82 MPH seconds before the derailment? That curve is supposed to be taken at 30 MPH, and I believe the speed limit on the straight stretch is 70?

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/02/us/new-york-train-derails/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 has a very short update.

The train was speeding, and I think that I heard that the brakes were engaged five seconds before the crash. It's sounding like operator error to me IMO, but we'll see what else comes to light.

If I misheard anything, please, correct me! Was making dinner while listening.
 
^nope you have it right.

6 seconds before complete stop throttle stops being applied, 1 second later brakes are applied - NTSB guy approximated that this is very close to the time the train derailed. train was going 82mph in the 70mph straight and probably about that same speed when it derailed.

i agree that it sounds less like mechanical failure now but im not an expert so maybe there is some explanation for this that is not the fault of the engineer.

when i heard "we have confiscated the engineer's cell phone and..." all i could think was wow - why the heck are they even allowed to have them?

no idea if it played a part in this crash but they certainly have in the past.
 
Okay, now CNN is reporting that the stretch was actually a 40MPH zone. Over twice the speed limit... right before that curve.

And wow at the cell phone confiscation, liljim!
 
Holy cow, the train was going 60mph and ACCELERATED to 82mph right before that curve.

Why??? Reporting that brakes were fine in Poughkeepsie, etc...
 
i dont understand the media sometimes, several people asked about the engineer and what he had said, they asked this shortly after the NTSB guy made it very clear he would have no comment on that...

but nobody asked;

how long (in distance) does it take for that train to reduce speed from 70 down to 30 for that turn?

so then, typically, how many seconds sooner would the brakes normally begin to be applied?

is that time period enough for an engineer to report that they are unable to apply their brakes to another party (other crew on the train, dispatch...)? would you expect this to have been done?
 
Leilei said:
Holy cow, the train was going 60mph and ACCELERATED to 82mph right before that curve.

Why??? Reporting that brakes were fine in Poughkeepsie, etc...
Click to expand...

i didnt hear them say that the previous zone was 40mph yet, only heard it referred to as a 70mph zone.

i did hear the part that 2 minutes prior to the turn it was going 60mph and then accelerated over some time to 82mph - not sure if he was still accelerating right into the turn tho.

im really interested to hear some detail about how long before the turn he should have started applying the brakes.
 
http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/train-was-going-82-mph-before-derailing-ntsb/

"Engineer 'Zoned Out' Before Train Derailed"

"Engineer William Rockefeller told investigators that he had zoned out as the train was barreling toward the bend — and that he was jolted back to reality only after a whistle went off warning him he was going dangerously fast, sources told The Post."

“He was just somehow inattentive,’’ and as soon as he realized what was happening, he jammed on the brakes, one source said."

"But it was too late."
 
Fox News reporting the engineer may have been asleep. Too late to save train by the time he awoke.
 
Blondie in Spokane said:
http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/train-was-going-82-mph-before-derailing-ntsb/

"Engineer 'Zoned Out' Before Train Derailed"

"Engineer William Rockefeller told investigators that he had zoned out as the train was barreling toward the bend — and that he was jolted back to reality only after a whistle went off warning him he was going dangerously fast, sources told The Post."

“He was just somehow inattentive,’’ and as soon as he realized what was happening, he jammed on the brakes, one source said."

"But it was too late."
Click to expand...

BBM there was a warning whistle-too bad there wasn't one in place sooner, giving him time to slow down. Very sad.
 
BunnyHop said:
BBM there was a warning whistle-too bad there wasn't one in place sooner, giving him time to slow down. Very sad.
Click to expand...

Well, he's being honest, at least. I don't know what this will mean for him legally. And if he is, indeed, at fault, how on earth do you live with the guilt for the rest of your life?

CNN (listening to them now) says that they are investigating what he had been doing before his shift, which makes sense.
 
NTSB press conference on CNN right now. Engineer had been driving this particular route since 11/17. Breathalyzers all negative, drug test results not available yet. Engineer made this route twice per shift (9 hour shifts), round trip, and reported to work at (I think?) 5am that morning.

No brake problems found.
 
Leilei said:
Well, he's being honest, at least. I don't know what this will mean for him legally. And if he is, indeed, at fault, how on earth do you live with the guilt for the rest of your life?

CNN (listening to them now) says that they are investigating what he had been doing before his shift, which makes sense.
Click to expand...

That's what I was thinking.....I simply could not live with the guilt and can't imagine having to.
 
"MTA: Alert system for engineer was on wrong end of derailed Metro-North train"

"Three days after the fatal Metro-North derailment, the MTA conceded Wednesday the train was equipped with technology to alert an inattentive engineer — but it was on the wrong end of the train."

"The “alerter” system sounds a warning after 25 seconds of inactivity from the engineer. It can activate the brakes automatically if the engineer doesn’t respond to the prompt in 15 seconds."

"That may have prevented disaster when engineer William Rockefeller apparently nodded off before the train approached a sharp curve near the Spuyten Duyvil station in the Bronx on Sunday morning — a bend that requires trains to slow down from a 70 mph limit to just 30 mph."

"The system, however, was installed in the locomotive, which was powering the train from the rear, and Rockefeller, due to protocol, was operating the train with remote controls from the lead car, which had no alerter, officials said. In effect, Rockefeller was seven cars away from the audible alarm."


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...o-north-crash-article-1.1537758#ixzz2maahHBaX
 
"The MTA’s acknowledgment of the existence of the alerter system on the doomed train came as NYPD cop Eddie Russell, one of 75 people injured, filed a $10 million suit, alleging the MTA was negligent."

"His suit throws in a new twist — he’s laying the blame on treacherous track, not the locomotive engineer."

"The suit alleges the MTA was negligent because it failed to fix the tricky curve north of the Spuyten Duyvil station."

“No one looked into whether the design of the tracks at or around the location caused and/or contributed to the accident,” said Russell’s lawyer, Robert Vilensky.

"Russell, a 22-year veteran of the force who was heading to work from his upstate home when the train wrecked, is the second survivor to sue the MTA, which has declined to comment on the filings."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...o-north-crash-article-1.1537758#ixzz2mac7NpzQ
 
Feds order major Metro-North safety changes after deadly crash

By Tracy Connor, Staff Writer, NBC News

The feds on Friday ordered New York's Metro-North commuter railroad to make major safety improvements — starting with two crew members at the controls in some places — to prevent a repeat of the high-speed derailment that killed four people and injured 63 over the weekend.

The emergency order from the Federal Railroad Administration requires Metro-North to modify its signal system so that it will automatically slow down a train if the engineer fails to do so in spots where there is a dramatic speed change...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...y-crash?lite?__source=xfinity|mod&par=xfinity
 
It's about time. I commute via Metro North everyday and it's not a pleasant experience with all of the accidents, track and signal issues and numerous delays.
 
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