Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[lonetraveler]

Listening to Andeson Cooper right now and a man is correcting the story about the Mexican investigator's death. His head was found near the Falcon Lake, the rest of his body has not been found. The story about his head being discovered in a suitcase is false. OK. Now, I can say for certainty that a jet ski will come to a complete stop once the hands are not on the controls. This safety feature was to ensure that the jet ski would not leave the driver in the water if he was thrown from the seat. So, if you are shot in the head, your hands would leave the handles of the jet ski and the jet ski would come to an immediate stop. I do believe that this would mean that your body would either be propelled into the water or you would slip into the water after the jet ski would come to the immediate stop. Either way, the man would end up in the water...........period. If you are in a panic and your husband was in the water with a gun shot to the head, you would IMO turn around and try to get him onto your jet ski. It would be nearly impossible for this feat to be accomplished unless you are very, very strong and you could man-handle him onto the jet ski, IMO impossible, but I can see someone trying anyway because you would not want to leave your loved one behind. Who knows why these murderous thugs would let her go free. But, that could very well be how it happened.

 

[lonetraveler]

1. If you are addressing me as "you," you are arguing with the wrong person. Argue with Ms. Dalley. I simply posted what she, an expert, which I certainly am not, said and which made sense to me. You are, of course, free to disagree.2. I have always interpreted Tiffany's "flying over the handlebars" description as meaning the shot from the back of the head propelled him over the handlebars--not his jet ski stopping suddenly. She has never mentioned a sudden stop, which, I agree with you, would have sent him flying forward.

Oh now, and stop the presses! In looking for information regarding this topic, I found this very interesting statement:

"To mount the jet ski, swim to the back and pull yourself up, then scoot forward until you are in the driver position. If you have a passenger, make sure that he doesn't get on until after you and the jet ski are settled in the water again.

Never mount a jet ski from the side. You will pull it over on your head and look like an idiot ... but hey, maybe that's your thing."

Read more: How to Ride a Jet Ski | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/how_2075947_ride-jet-ski.html#ixzz12lqBP7Sw

But didn't Tiffany say at one point she was on the side of the Jet Ski trying to pull David up on it?

I meant to hit the reply button and quoted your post by mistake. Sorry about that.

 

[Nonni Brenda]

Tonight @ 9 PM ET Body Language Expert Dr. Lillian Glass will weigh in on Tiffany Hartley's body language.

Here is the link to listen: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/levipage/2010/10/19/levi-page-show

Levi, I listened to your show tonight, and it was very informative, especially the segment on Zahra Baker. So interesting when the caller from Astralia called in. Thanks Levi for your reminder about the show.

 

[AutomaticAuttie]

Do you really believe that if the jet ski would immediately stop that a human sitting on the jet ski wouldn't continue moving forward? Hit the brakes in your car without your seatbelt on and see if you go forward! A human body would continue in a forward motion and if you add a bullet hitting you squarely in the back of the head I bet the forward motion would be even more evident. There would be no where to go but over the handle bars. Have you ever stopped your bicycle in an emergency and flipped over the handle bars? I have and landed in a deep pond when I didn't know how to swim. So, I guess I qualify as to how you would move in such an incident. If he was killed instantly, his hands would leave the controls on the handle bars and he would not be able to stay on the seat but would travel forward.

ETA: I suggest that you watch the Kennedy assasination and see where his head goes after receiving a couple of bullets. He definitely doesn't remain stationary. He is propelled forward, imagine that?

In my experience of riding jet ski's, waverunner's, and sea-doo's in the past, I alway stood up when I was trying to go faster, or jump it over a wake. It is very typical to see people doing the same, and not sitting. Perhaps, he was standing making it even that much more plausible for him to go right over the handle bars.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Lone, I thought that would happen if the hands leave the handles (the sudden stop).
I'm so glad you posted this because I'm on my phone and it's so hard for me to google a lot.

IMO he could have flown over the handles when shot in the head. Makes sense to me.

 

[lonetraveler]

In my experience of riding jet ski's, waverunner's, and sea-doo's in the past, I alway stood up when I was trying to go faster, or jump it over a wake. It is very typical to see people doing the same, and not sitting. Perhaps, he was standing making it even that much more plausible for him to go right over the handle bars.

Yep, I live on the coast and very familiar with jet skis, you are right, he was most likely standing up and would naturally go over the handle bars when he was shot.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Assuming that David drove the truck during this trip.. and to the boat landing.. then locked up the truck and put his keys in his pocket before whisking away on his jetski...

... has anyone asked Tiffany how it so happened that she had the truck keys in order to drive the truck that they arrived there in--home? Did she have time to fish them out of his pocket while she was fearing for her own life?

That has been mentioned before as an item for suspicion of her, but a websleuther explained why it probably happened that way. It is in a previous post.

 

[CathyinTexas]

The thing is, she is still planning on moving to Colorado now. She doesn't have to, the only reason for the move before seemed to be for his job, yet she is still moving there without him.

I believe that is where she is from and her family is probably there. It is my understanding they moved to Texas for the job he took in Mexico. If so, there is no reason for her to stay here.

 

[hollyblue]

Tiffany Hartley, wife of David Hartley, spoke with John Roberts about the latest in the case of her missing husband.

http://cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2010/10/18/exp.am.intv.hartley.mpg.cnn

ETA: More videos. She's postponed moving to CO. ???

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=527960

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/stor...king-With-Mexican/6OWRwTv8RkOEg-0Te-UO6w.cspx

http://www.wwlp.com/dpps/news/national/south/tourist-murder-investigation-continues-_3615124

They have more info...for the investigation, but say nothing of resuming the search. Also, I thought the FBI were to be there, but it was held at the FBI's office, with the Mexican State and Federal Officials. ???

 

[CathyinTexas]

Thanks. I don't blame her for wanting to move.

Colorado is beautiful.

IMO

I don't know if someone else has posted this, but I have read they were from Colorado and their family is there.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Hmmm....why would she do that?

Unless someone's waiting for her there.

Probably her family and many friends.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I'm thinking she will be moving home with mom and pop...at least for awhile. She has no job nor income that we have heard of. Remember, she is pretty much in "their" territory also. I wouldn't be comfy there if I were her.

I was sort of taken back by the father's comments of it didn't matter how, who or why his SIL was killed, just that his remains be returned. I'm sure DH's family does not totally agree with those sentiments. But it does seem that DH or TH was not in communication with her parents of the goings on around there..nor the parents being too knowledgeable about the border issues. Twas me, I'd be at full attention of any news regarding violence where my child was living....albeit ....right in the middle of it. JMO

Wasn't David's father who was interviewed. So he was talking about his son.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Has she been asked to?

IMO LE has no reason to request one. It would be a very stupid move on their part. She literally will not shut up and she hasn't lawyered up. All of her interviews and statements can be used in court, polygraph results can't.

and if she has told the 100% truth, why should she?

I don't trust polygraphs anyway..........Mark Lunsford's mom didn't pass one. But I found her answer to the question interesting.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Do you really believe that if the jet ski would immediately stop that a human sitting on the jet ski wouldn't continue moving forward? Hit the brakes in your car without your seatbelt on and see if you go forward! A human body would continue in a forward motion and if you add a bullet hitting you squarely in the back of the head I bet the forward motion would be even more evident. There would be no where to go but over the handle bars. Have you ever stopped your bicycle in an emergency and flipped over the handle bars? I have and landed in a deep pond when I didn't know how to swim. So, I guess I qualify as to how you would move in such an incident. If he was killed instantly, his hands would leave the controls on the handle bars and he would not be able to stay on the seat but would travel forward.

ETA: I suggest that you watch the Kennedy assassination and see where his head goes after receiving a couple of bullets. He definitely doesn't remain stationary. He is propelled forward, imagine that?

As far as I know, jet skis don't stop on a dime like a car impact, or a instantaneous hitting the brake of a bike. If the jet ski simply slowed down until it stopped, like taking your foot off the gas pedal, I don't believe he would be propelled forward from a gunshot wound to the head.

I do know objects in motion stay in motion, if his jet ski were to instantly stop his body would continue to be propelled forward at the speed the jet ski would have been traveling immediately before stopping.

This part of her story isn't what bothers me though

 

[Waddles]

http://www.krgv.com/news/local/stor...king-with-Mexican/6OWRwTv8RkOEg-0Te-UO6w.cspx

"Tiffany Hartley says law enforcement in Mexico now know everything about the day her husband David was killed.
She says hopefully this will help them find David's body.
She now says she will not leave the Valley until he is found.
"I don't want to leave without my husband. That's what it comes down to. It's very hard to pack his things and try to decide what memories, what stuff you want to take and what stuff you want to be packed," she says.
She hopes her testimony will get the search for David going again.
Tiffany Hartley gave a 14 page statement to investigators from the Mexican state of Tamaulipas and the Mexican Federal Government.
She says this should be the end of their questions."

 

[Tuffy]

As far as I know, jet skis don't stop on a dime like a car impact, or a instantaneous hitting the brake of a bike. If the jet ski simply slowed down until it stopped, like taking your foot off the gas pedal, I don't believe he would be propelled forward from a gunshot wound to the head.

I do know objects in motion stay in motion, if his jet ski were to instantly stop his body would continue to be propelled forward at the speed the jet ski would have been traveling immediately before stopping.

This part of her story isn't what bothers me though

I didn't think so either, Linda, so I Googled it. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/03/26/latest-seadoo-can-st.html The latest Seadoo can stop on a dime. It has a braking system.

Like you, this is one part of her story that doesn't so much bother me. She has been so inconsistent, and unfeeling on all the interviews she has done. Perhaps she is just normally a very cold person, and had nothing to do with her husband's death, but to me she just doesn't seem to be too bothered by the loss. She has changed up her story way too many times to me.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Of course, as with most things, Tiffany can't remember from one moment to the next if David was flying over the handlebars when she looked back, or not:

"And that`s when I looked back to check on David, and that`s when I saw that he had been thrown off and into the water facedown."

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1010/07/ijvm.01.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

I didn't think so either, Linda, so I Googled it. http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2009/03/26/latest-seadoo-can-st.html The latest Seadoo can stop on a dime. It has a braking system.

Like you, this is one part of her story that doesn't so much bother me. She has been so inconsistent, and unfeeling on all the interviews she has done. Perhaps she is just normally a very cold person, and had nothing to do with her husband's death, but to me she just doesn't seem to be too bothered by the loss. She has changed up her story way too many times to me.

I highly doubt he was able to hit the brake after being shot in the back of the head, forehead, neck:waitasec:

 

[Tuffy]

I highly doubt he was able to hit the brake after being shot in the back of the head, forehead, neck:waitasec:

Oops! :blushing: So much for the stopping on a dime theory...

 

[LaWanda]

Do you really believe that if the jet ski would immediately stop that a human sitting on the jet ski wouldn't continue moving forward? Hit the brakes in your car without your seatbelt on and see if you go forward! A human body would continue in a forward motion and if you add a bullet hitting you squarely in the back of the head I bet the forward motion would be even more evident. There would be no where to go but over the handle bars. Have you ever stopped your bicycle in an emergency and flipped over the handle bars? I have and landed in a deep pond when I didn't know how to swim. So, I guess I qualify as to how you would move in such an incident. If he was killed instantly, his hands would leave the controls on the handle bars and he would not be able to stay on the seat but would travel forward.

ETA: I suggest that you watch the Kennedy assasination and see where his head goes after receiving a couple of bullets. He definitely doesn't remain stationary. He is propelled forward, imagine that?

My thing is that he is on water. Water will absorb any impact of a sudden stop. I don't see him flipping over the handlebars either. Maybe slumping to the side, but not over the front. :twocents: IMO