Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

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I would. And so did Marc Klaas, when LE immediately put him at the top of the suspect list, when Polly disappeared. In fact, Klaas demanded a poly.

He passed (as he knew he would)....and investigators moved on.

Since it can't be used in court, big deal.


Under those circumstances I would too.

I wouldn't refuse anything if my child was missing. I would be denading one too, I wouldn't want LE to waste men and time looking at me, when they should be looking for my child
 
Can anyone provide me with a link to an audio or transcript of the 911 call?

Thank you.
 
Wouldn't it have to be the same key? Imagine fiddling around with two keys.

So the key comes out...and where is it?

In this case, would it be with David Hartley?
"Pirates" would have to tow a jet ski away, moving slowly, if they had no key.
Planning ahead, bringing a tow rope?

What if DH was never on the lake in the first place, or never came back from the other side?


Those are my questions, too.
 
All jet skis have a safety key so if the rider falls off, the ski will immediately stop. Every jet ski comes with a safety key which must be inserted into the starter switch in order to start the jet ski. The safety key strap goes right around your wrist and is designed to pull out and stop the jet ski if the safety key is removed, such as if you should fall off the jet ski while riding. In this fashion, the jet ski will stop right next to you.

Safety key example (one type)
http://ad-discountperformance.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=173

Another type
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/SeaDoo-Lanyard-Safety-Security-278002199/dp/B001KMHG5O"]Amazon.com: OEM SeaDoo D.E.S.S. Lanyard Safety Security 278002199: Sports & Outdoors: Reviews, Prices & more[/ame]
 
My understanding is that the safety key thingie that kills the engine in the event of an emergency is required to restart the jet ski. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Yes, this is correct. I've owned jet skis for years. And even when the engine stops, the watercraft will still move forward at least 5 - 10 feet before coming to an otherwise complete stop.
 
most riders use the wristband so that if you are ever thrown off the ski, the engine cuts and ski will be within swimming distance so the rider can get back on. The key would have been pulled out when the rider fell off the ski, thereby cutting the engine. So in all likelihood, the key would have been on DH's body "if" he in fact had fallen from the ski, whether that be forward, backward, or to the side.

So the alleged pirates would have had to remove the key from DH in order to restart the ski, or have access to a similar key in order to start and ride the ski. they certainly could tie a rope to it and tow it....but that would have had to have been after TH was chased and left the area. And skis are heavy....they cannot just be picked up out of the water by someone. So either it had to sunk...which isn't easy either....or beached somewhere...and/or taken somewhere to a boat ramp to remove it from the water.

All are likely scenarios...but they also all contribute to a more complex scenario as well.
 
TH when she was 20.

Tiffany Young, 20, former eleven-year Colorado 4-Her, said, "I recommend 4-H for every kid. It taught me leadership, responsibility, communication skills, and how to get along with others…plus I met many long-lasting friends."

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/coop/01anrep09.html
 
most riders use the wristband so that if you are ever thrown off the ski, the engine cuts and ski will be within swimming distance so the rider can get back on. The key would have been pulled out when the rider fell off the ski, thereby cutting the engine. So in all likelihood, the key would have been on DH's body "if" he in fact had fallen from the ski, whether that be forward, backward, or to the side.

So the alleged pirates would have had to remove the key from DH in order to restart the ski, or have access to a similar key in order to start and ride the ski. they certainly could tie a rope to it and tow it....but that would have had to have been after TH was chased and left the area. And skis are heavy....they cannot just be picked up out of the water by someone. So either it had to sunk...which isn't easy either....or beached somewhere...and/or taken somewhere to a boat ramp to remove it from the water.

All are likely scenarios...but they also all contribute to a more complex scenario as well.

BBM. Thank you very much, that's what I thought.

So now we have Mexican drug cartel members that are either intimately familiar with how jet skis work, or conveniently carry a tow rope just in case the opportunity to steal a jet ski presents itself.
 


Thank you. I tried that Google search but all I could find were things with snippets like the one on the link. I was hoping for something more complete.

Anyway, I find it quite interesting that when the Good Samaritan puts Tiffany on the phone to the 911 dispatcher, the first thing Tiffany says is, "Hello?"

According to this bulletin from the FBI, that's a red flag:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/law-enforcement-bulletin/2008-pdfs/june08leb.pdf

The article begins on page 23 and the part regarding "Hello" and "Hi" begins on page 28.
 
BBM. Thank you very much, that's what I thought.

So now we have Mexican drug cartel members that are either intimately familiar with how jet skis work, or conveniently carry a tow rope just in case the opportunity to steal a jet ski presents itself.


IMO All water craft carry a tow rope
 
I pray that David Hartley's body will be found soon - maybe then some very crucial questions will get answered. Just one other thought - why would a drug Cartel bother to hide a dead body??? I have run this over and over in my mind, but have yet to come up with a rationale that makes sense and is totally believable. JMHO
 
I pray that David Hartley's body will be found soon - maybe then some very crucial questions will get answered. Just one other thought - why would a drug Cartel bother to hide a dead body??? I have run this over and over in my mind, but have yet to come up with a rationale that makes sense and is totally believable. JMHO


BINGO!

There is no getting around that one!
 
I pray that David Hartley's body will be found soon - maybe then some very crucial questions will get answered. Just one other thought - why would a drug Cartel bother to hide a dead body??? I have run this over and over in my mind, but have yet to come up with a rationale that makes sense and is totally believable. JMHO

The only reason I can think of is if it were baby zetas or young wannabes that accidently shot him. I'm wondering if this story is true, if they just shot in the air in chasing and frightening her back to US side. If they were just trying to rob them and they screwed up and shot him, then they would want to hide the body ....plus they would gain at least one jet ski. If it was baby zetas...hidden from their "bosses" or just wannabes would hide it out of fear..especially an American. ?????

Seems if they could find the jet ski, they could start to find out "who" was involved. But, by now it could be any where in Mexico...or the US for that matter.

According to this article, she moved back to CO today: VIDEO

http://www.valleycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=528748

ETA: Maybe the reason she decided to move was the fact that the company had agreed and the van was scheduled. If she decided not to...then the cost might have been up to her. Hence, her comment about holding everyone up. JMO...but I don't think her or David was very happy with the company and the move back to CO. Curious what his position would have been there.

It was mentioned when they were reporting on her meeting with officials that the FBI would be there....she only met with the MX officials at the FBI's field office.....believe me THEY were THERE.
 
Since publishing the report, we have been deluged by interview requests regarding the case. Numerous media outlets have interviewed Fred Burton and myself regarding the Falcon Lake case. During the course of talking with reporters and customers, it became obvious to us that a solid understanding of the context within which Hartley’s killing occurred was lacking in media discussions of the case. Viewing the murder as part of the bigger picture of what is occurring in Mexico makes it far easier to understand not only why David Hartley was killed, but why his body will likely never be found — and why his killers probably will not be held accountable for their actions, at least in the context of the judicial system.



http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2010...readmore&elq=670c9c993b8a4971b27e228f57c44f68
 
From alwaysonmymind's link:

http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/2010...readmore&elq=670c9c993b8a4971b27e228f57c44f68


The Falcon Lake Murder and Mexico's Drug Wars


All of these recent losses by Los Zetas must be considered part of a longer timeline. As early as 2007, STRATFOR began to discuss the toll that the cartel wars were taking on the enforcement arms of the various cartel groups, such as Los Zetas. The life of a cartel enforcer is often quite brutal and short: Enforcers constantly are in danger of being killed or arrested. In 2007, we noted how Los Zetas were looking to bring in fresh muscle to bolster their ranks, to include other former members of the Mexican military and police, former Guatemalan special operations forces (known as Kaibiles), and even members of street gangs like Mara Salvatrucha, aka MS-13. These young street gang recruits frequently are referred to as “Zetitas” or little Zetas.

Such replacements come with a price, however. The original Los Zetas were defectors from Mexico’s Special Forces Airmobile Group (known by the Spanish acronym GAFE), and as such were very well-trained and well-disciplined. As evidenced from the paramilitary training camps uncovered in Mexico and Guatemala, and the fact that Los Zetas reportedly have hired military instructors from a variety of countries (including Americans, Israelis, and some Europeans), the organization has attempted to train their new recruits. But the new generations of Zetas and Zetitas are simply not as well-trained or well-disciplined as the original Zetas. This basic level of training for new recruits has also suffered in recent months as the group has been under tremendous pressure to replace members who have been killed while some of its training facilities have been seized by the authorities. This means the organization has been compelled to use enforcers with very little training who are far less tactically adept than their Zeta masters. They are little more than thugs with guns.

and

It must also be recognized that any attempt to quantify the death toll in the Mexican cartel wars is quickly complicated by the fact that the cartels have gotten very good at disposing of bodies. Many victims simply disappear, and their murders are never confirmed. For example, in December 2008, American anti-kidnapping consultant Felix Batista disappeared from a meeting at a restaurant in Saltillo, Coahuila state. Batista reportedly was murdered, but no trace of his body was ever found. In addition to dumping bodies in mass graves, using wood chippers or feeding them to vultures, Mexican cartels also have developed innovative ways to dispose of their victims’ corpses. Santiago “El Pozolero” Meza Lopez, a Tijuana cartel enforcer arrested in January 2009, admitted to Mexican authorities that he was responsible for dissolving at least 300 bodies in sodium hydroxide, a process known as making “guiso,” Spanish for “stew.” The cartels can either dispose of a body or mutilate it and leave it to be found, depending on the specific message they wish to send.
 
That report posted by alwaysonmymind states that the Zetas had lost control of the corridor through Reynosa, and therefore Falcon Lake was even more important to them. The Gulf Cartel has formed a new federation and the Zetas are claiming the Mex. government is working with them against the Zetas. I can see why they could think that two people on jet skis with a camera were potentially spying on them. If you then factor in that they are poorly trained MS-13's and the like recruits, rather than the highly trained special forces members the Zetas were used to, I have no trouble understanding how this happened.
 
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