GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen and both parents guilty* #7

[Izzylizzy]

A penal code does not mean he could have been charged. He would have to actually break the law which I don't think he did. I need links to learn otherwise.

What are penal codes/laws used for then if not to show the consequences of one's actions?

I would think if what you claim were true and James did not break the law then Michigan prosecutor Marc Keast would not have read the penal code to Judge Matthews,
Matthews agreed with Keast that they were threats.

 

[Cool Cats]

What are penal codes/laws used for then if not to show the consequences of one's actions?

I would think if what you claim were true and JC did not break the law then Michigan prosecutor Marc Keast would not have read the penal code to Judge Matthews,

I would need to research this to see if it is a crime to be charged with. I have no idea what the law in Michigan says about threats you do not make directly to a person.

Will I be arrested if I tell person A I want to fight with person B? No.

,2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

I would need to research this to see if it is a crime to be charged with. I have no idea what the law in Michigan says about threats you do not make directly to a person.

Will I be arrested if I tell person A I want to fight with person B? No.

,2 Cents

You're talking about threats to a prosecutor who's prosecuting you on your plans to bring them down.
A prosecutor isn't any old person A.

 

[Cool Cats]

You're talking about threats to a prosecutor who's prosecuting you on your plans to bring them down.
A prosecutor isn't any old person A.

I still need to see the Michigan law that states it as a crime or misdemeanor. I can't find anything on it.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I still need to see the Michigan law that states it as a crime or misdemeanor. I can't find anything on it.

In Post 330 is the YouTube of Keast

MCL - Section 750.483a - Michigan Legislature

legislature.mi.gov

"But Oakland County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Marc Keast rejected the notion James wasn't threatening McDonald. He also read some of the threats, noting that James knew the calls were being recorded.

“I don’t know any other purpose for what James Crumbley did other than to interfere with the administration of justice,” Keast said. “Rarely do we see the defendant threatening the prosecutor, let alone the trial team, let alone the elected prosecutor.”

When Keast read James’ threats into the record, Jennifer glanced at James, shook her head and rolled her eyes.'

Live Blog: Sentence handed down to Jennifer, James Crumbley

The sentence for the parents for the Oxford High School shooter was in line with what prosecutors had sought.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[Sundog]

Analysis by law professors at the University of Michigan and the Northern Illinois College of Law on the charging of parents as a result of their child's crime -

While the sentencing represents the end of the current proceedings, those who cheered the outcome — and those who warned against the legal precedent it set — have said the Crumbley cases are likely to reverberate for years to come.

“You have a painful crime. You have a legal novelty and an unprecedented action. And then you have this social thing in which we’re all interested, all coming together in one case,” Ekow Yankah, a law professor at the University of Michigan, told Al Jazeera. “And I think there’s this kind of deep intuition about: At what point are your children’s actions not your own?”

. . Yankah, the University of Michigan professor, explained that the reaction within the legal community has been split, with some fearing the Crumbley verdict may forge a precedent with wide-ranging implications.
“One might think that with such a painful and unlikely event — and the way prosecution treated [the Crumbleys] as such remarkably negligent parents — that we just wouldn’t see a case like this again,” he said. “But I do think the thing that worries legal experts is: We know that law lives in precedent, and once you have a precedent, it’s the most natural instinct for a prosecutor to use that precedent,” he said.

Evan Bernick, a professor at Northern Illinois University College of Law, has been among those warning of what the convictions could portend. “There’s a saying: ‘Hard cases make bad law,’ which means that there’s always an initial horrifying case that’s used to justify the expansion of criminal law,” he told Al Jazeera. “Then there are a whole class of cases that you don’t see that you don’t get national intention.”

Both Bernick and Yankah pointed to the possibility of the precedent being gradually applied in lower-profile situations, particularly as a tool for prosecutors to pressure suspects into plea bargains. Marginalised communities could be particularly at risk, Bernick said. “I don’t have a lot of confidence in the exercise of prosecutorial discretion to pick and choose only cases like this,” he said. “Once you’ve got a hammer — and this is definitely a hammer — everything can look like a nail, and people aren’t necessarily focused on how you’re wielding it.”

A knotty question of parent liability in the Crumbley school shooting case

The parents of a US school shooter have been found guilty of manslaughter. What message does their sentencing send?

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

With a little distance from all that took place yesterday in the courtroom it's interesting to go back and listen or listen again to Smith defending JC to Matthews before the sentencing.

Shannon Smith gets combative with judge ahead of sentencing

Jennifer Crumbley’s lawyer Shannon Smith got combative with the judge ahead of sentencing while arguing against some of the facts of the trial.

www.fox2detroit.com

 

[Cool Cats]

In Post 330 is the YouTube of Keast

MCL - Section 750.483a - Michigan Legislature

legislature.mi.gov

"But Oakland County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Marc Keast rejected the notion James wasn't threatening McDonald. He also read some of the threats, noting that James knew the calls were being recorded.

“I don’t know any other purpose for what James Crumbley did other than to interfere with the administration of justice,” Keast said. “Rarely do we see the defendant threatening the prosecutor, let alone the trial team, let alone the elected prosecutor.”

When Keast read James’ threats into the record, Jennifer glanced at James, shook her head and rolled her eyes.'

Live Blog: Sentence handed down to Jennifer, James Crumbley

The sentence for the parents for the Oxford High School shooter was in line with what prosecutors had sought.

www.detroitnews.com

In Post 330 is the YouTube of Keast

MCL - Section 750.483a - Michigan Legislature

legislature.mi.gov

"But Oakland County Assistant Prosecuting Attorney Marc Keast rejected the notion James wasn't threatening McDonald. He also read some of the threats, noting that James knew the calls were being recorded.

“I don’t know any other purpose for what James Crumbley did other than to interfere with the administration of justice,” Keast said. “Rarely do we see the defendant threatening the prosecutor, let alone the trial team, let alone the elected prosecutor.”

When Keast read James’ threats into the record, Jennifer glanced at James, shook her head and rolled her eyes.'

Live Blog: Sentence handed down to Jennifer, James Crumbley

The sentence for the parents for the Oxford High School shooter was in line with what prosecutors had sought.

www.detroitnews.com

Thanks

Threats yes. Enough to affect his court case but doesn't hold up for charges because they were indirect threats and not done directly to her. How it looks to me.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Thanks

Threats yes. Enough to affect his court case but doesn't hold up for charges because they were indirect threats and not done directly to her. How it looks to me.

I think he could have been charged by prosecutors but they were pleased with James getting the +15 points and Matthews acknowledging they were threats and not his venting.
They're on record,
James also wasn't charged with being an admitted pot smoker and owning guns or for not having registered his 2 other guns.

 

[Cool Cats]

I think he could have been charged by prosecutors but they were pleased with James getting the +15 points and Matthews acknowledging they were threats and not his venting.
They're on record,
James also wasn't charged with being an admitted pot smoker and owning guns or for not having registered his 2 other guns.

Pot is legal in Mi and so is gun ownership unless you are a convicted felon.

Never heard of gun registration laws.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Pot is legal in Mi and so is gun ownership unless you are a convicted felon.

Never heard of gun registration laws.

Nope,
Pot is not a legal federal law.

Marijuana & Your Gun Rights in Michigan - Davis Law Group, PLLC

Owning a gun and smoking marijuana can lead to charges in Michigan. Call a Detroit defense lawyer. Davis Law Group. Free Consults.

www.michigancriminallawyer.com

Gotta go, checking registrations will have to wait unless you wanna go for it. lol

 

[Cool Cats]

Nope,
Pot is not a legal federal law.

Marijuana & Your Gun Rights in Michigan - Davis Law Group, PLLC

Owning a gun and smoking marijuana can lead to charges in Michigan. Call a Detroit defense lawyer. Davis Law Group. Free Consults.

www.michigancriminallawyer.com

Gotta go, checking registrations will have to wait unless you wanna go for it. lol

This case has nothing to do with Federal! This is The State of Michigan VS the Crumbley's not The Federal District of Michigan VS the Crumbley's.

Pot is legal in Michigan, I could buy pot every day. There are pot shops everywhere, it is not a crime and James would not be charged for this.

 

[Lynn1366]

It was Hana St Julian’s teenage sister who called out a person off camera-, assuming SS, by saying something like don’t shake your head, she said it, it was on camera.

I remember watching the trial when Jennifer said she would not change a thing and it was horrible. And stuck with me. Obviously, victims’ parents as well since each brought it up.

Jennifer tried (unsuccessfully imo) to backtrack by saying that’s not what she meant . She said with hindsight, knowing now what she did not know then, obviously she’d change what she did. In my opinion, it’s BS. But also, there WAS enough information with what “little “ she knew then. Not going to rehash everything, but an observant parent (even a slightly lazy parent) should have seen EC was struggling. Hey, the kid even asked for mental health help!

I heard the sister say "you can roll your eyes if you want, it's on camera". I was glad someone called out SS (I am assuming it was her rolling her eyes due to her past behaviors.)

 

[IAMWAN]

I think he could have been charged by prosecutors but they were pleased with James getting the +15 points and Matthews acknowledging they were threats and not his venting.
They're on record,
James also wasn't charged with being an admitted pot smoker and owning guns or for not having registered his 2 other guns.

IIRC, one of the officers (maybe the ATF person) said that not registering your guns basically just ends up being a fine. No jail time or anything.

 

[Sundog]

What are penal codes/laws used for then if not to show the consequences of one's actions?

I would think if what you claim were true and James did not break the law then Michigan prosecutor Marc Keast would not have read the penal code to Judge Matthews,
Matthews agreed with Keast that they were threats.

It's important to note that JamesC has not been charged with making threats. If he is charged, then the prosecutors who handle the case will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he made direct threats against McDonald. I suppose they could charge him in the future, but that hasn't happened yet. His lawyer will argue that he was just venting to a family member.

 

[texaslb218]

IMO they couldn’t do any different. It’s not just they didn’t: they couldn’t. That’s who they ARE. Ethan realized this and felt it in those last, dark, months. He was bereft with almost every breath…everything I’ve seen of his writing, his messages, his pleas, everything anyone else observed about him. Even the school’s inclination not to force him to go home that day IMO came from a place of recognition and compassion. Disastrous, yes, but what would they have been sending him home to? Now, they’d seen that black hole of parenting with their own eyes.

How would you have reacted if you've come to know a student’s parents in the principals office, and you’d had the dawning recognition these were profoundly uncaring parents? That they behaved like these parents, black holes of people? Very destructive to a child? AND you didn’t know about the gun? The school’s instinct (yes, disastrous) was to cocoon him where there were others around. I can totally see responding this way.

As a retired HS Principal of 20 years, it is easy to put myself in the school's place. But the school was not on trial. The parents could not do better because .......JenC said it. We did our best. It's a failure on many people, but the parents could have prevented this day's tragedy.

 

[BrownRice]

The other big thing that stood out to me at yesterday’s hearing. Tate Myres dad, his victim impact statement where he pivoted to use the time to get on his soapbox and angrily demand an investigation into the school officials and law enforcement officials and everyone else besides the Ethan‘s parents. Something about it, his raging delivery, his using the solemn occasion to bloviate, felt out of place and discordant and inappropriate to the matters at hand. That he was calling for the “actual truth” of what happened to come out rather than address the truths that did come out about Ethan’s parents because that was the purpose of the time.

It was confirmed that there was something off about it just ten minutes later. He may be forever haunted that James Crumbley then turned to him and pointed at him and said I AM WITH YOU tate myres dad!!! the truth has not come out! The truth must come out, right Tate Myers’s dad?!

Uggh that was horribly awkward.

Ya, I bet Tate Myre's dad wanted to get up and punch James Crumbley in the face. There's NO aligning sides with the freaking grieving dad. JC is oblivious.

I can't criticize Tate's dad -how would you get over the anger about this. He didn't want to give the time of day to the Crumbley's. He got his point across. Sure, all of the Crumbley's are to blame. But there were a lot of missteps by the school too. And like dad said, more training to be had. And the thought my dead or nearly dead child was laying inside a school without attention after the shooter had been caught is hard to stomach.

I'd be curious to see if anything happens after this though. My understanding (I read somewhere) was that the school couldn't be sued, not sure if that's correct.

 

[Izzylizzy]

It's important to note that JamesC has not been charged with making threats. If he is charged, then the prosecutors who handle the case will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he made direct threats against McDonald. I suppose they could charge him in the future, but that hasn't happened yet. His lawyer will argue that he was just venting to a family member.

We know he wasn't charged but Keast got the 15 pts to remain on his sentencing memo and had Matthews agree with him and McDonald that they were threats not him venting.

IIRC: When his trial began and the sheriff or Matthews took away his social communicating on phone calls and texting due to the threats it was just for duration of the trial.

James has all the time in the world now to do his so-called venting.

 

[Izzylizzy]

This case has nothing to do with Federal! This is The State of Michigan VS the Crumbley's not The Federal District of Michigan VS the Crumbley's.

Pot is legal in Michigan, I could buy pot every day. There are pot shops everywhere, it is not a crime and James would not be charged for this.

EDERAL VS. STATE LAW​

On a federal level, marijuana is still illegal. Because of that, it’s against the law to smoke marijuana and buy or own a firearm. This is a felony offense that could land you up to ten years in prison.

Many marijuana users are still not aware of this. They don’t know that the act of owning a gun while being a habitual user of marijuana could land them in serious legal trouble.

'IT’S ILLEGAL TO OWN A GUN & USE MARIJUANA'​

This issue has been revisited multiple times since states started legalizing marijuana, with many arguing that it doesn’t make sense to keep this law on the books. However, as of 2016, the U.S. Court of Appeals has upheld the federal ban on gun ownership for marijuana users.

Some users may become aware of this when they buy a gun from a legal seller. They must answer a question that asks if they are a user of marijuana or any other controlled substance. Form 4473 states explicitly that the use of marijuana is still against federal law even if it has been legalized in your state.

If you lie on that form and state that you are not an unlawful user of marijuana, you could get up to ten years in prison.'

Marijuana & Your Gun Rights in Michigan - Davis Law Group, PLLC

Owning a gun and smoking marijuana can lead to charges in Michigan. Call a Detroit defense lawyer. Davis Law Group. Free Consults.

www.michigancriminallawyer.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Ya, I bet Tate Myre's dad wanted to get up and punch James Crumbley in the face. There's NO aligning sides with the freaking grieving dad. JC is oblivious.

I can't criticize Tate's dad -how would you get over the anger about this. He didn't want to give the time of day to the Crumbley's. He got his point across. Sure, all of the Crumbley's are to blame. But there were a lot of missteps by the school too. And like dad said, more training to be had. And the thought my dead or nearly dead child was laying inside a school without attention after the shooter had been caught is hard to stomach.

I'd be curious to see if anything happens after this though. My understanding (I read somewhere) was that the school couldn't be sued, not sure if that's correct.

I don't know about other states, but in Michigan there are governmental immunity laws that protect schools from being sued and requiring independent reviews after any mass shooting. One of the local attorneys (Ven Johnson) who represents the parents of victims is attempting to get the law overturned, but it's anyone's guess as to whether or not he will be successful.