GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[DFWNF]

The cross of Special Agent Brandon - what stood out to you the most?

Hi there, the actions that are not illegal.

 

[wyome]

Knowing almost nothing about Ethan's case, it's wild to read this thread.
I'll still try to keep an open mind.

I am anxious to hear from the school staff who were in that meeting about the drawing and what EC gave as a reason for it. The defense made a big deal about that yesterday when questioning the special agent.

I understand there's a trail of instagrams and a journal that will be a part of the trial. I wonder how the prosecution is going to prove she knew about all of it. A text or FB message here and there to a spouse about being concerned about their child may not be enough. I don't know too many teenagers that share their journal entries with their parents.

Damn, that friend that was on the receiving end of the kill talk and bird torture must seriously be struggling. There will always be that misplaced guilt that someone in authority should have been told.

I'm not sure what EC could bring to her defense besides admitting that he told her nothing about his thoughts of killing and never shared his journal with her. Besides that, it's kind of a gamble. He's been in prison for a while and has had a good deal of time to reflect. He might indeed blame them internally and throw her under the bus.

 

[Weki]

I think the guns not being secured/locked away will not hurt the parents as much because it was clear that EC knew how to handle the guns so there was no risk of him accidentally killing anyone. That issue would be a factor if EC was 5 yo and accidentally shoots and kills someone. THEN the parents become culpable/negligent for not securing the gun. But this wasn’t an accidental shooting.

I’ve listened to hearings and arguments leading up to this trial and it’s gonna be a steep incline to a conviction if at all. The parents have been in jail this entire time (by their own fault since they tried to flee) and dragged through the mud deservedly imo. But are they criminally guilty? Idk

JMO

 

[IAMWAN]

Edited to add -- This is all MOO:

As much as I personally want her to be held responsible for being a parent (even though I don't know what "responsibility" looks like in a perfect world), I just don't know what half of this testimony has to do with the actual charges.

The person who is testifying now helped pull together the surveillance video and, instead of focusing on the parent visit to the counselor office, the amount of time they were there, etc, they're having him describe the shooting moment by moment. He is so blatantly just making statements about his interpretation of what is on the video "it looked like he was proud", "it's like he didn't even care", etc. I don't know how they can even cross examine him because nothing he's saying so far has anything to do with Jennifer Crumbley.

I don't know the word that I'm looking for but it is like they didn't get the chance to put these people on the stand for a trial for the shooter so they're just doing it now because they want everyone to remember how horrendous it all was. As if we could forget. It seems unnecessary.

 

[Elisaa444]

These jurors likely did not watch Ethan's trial (bc if they did I'm not sure they would get picked as jurors - though of course I could be wrong.) Seems to me they have to have background on how the shooting went down for the jury. I thought they chose jurors who know the least about a case. Given I know most probably know something about this case, but there are people who know more and who know less.

MOO/MOO/And More MOO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Per that link, she claims she did not know about the baby bird before the shooting, though. We haven't seen evidence she knew about it. However I do believe they will prove E's parents knew he wasn't mentally healthy. All IMO.

Prosecutor on Crumbley warning signs: Ethan had bird head in jar, mom had affair​

Prosecutor on Crumbley warning signs: Ethan had bird head in jar, mom had affair

Images show gun and crossed out words replaced with positive messages after a teacher spots the drawings.

www.detroitnews.com

Knowing almost nothing about Ethan's case, it's wild to read this thread.
I'll still try to keep an open mind.

I am anxious to hear from the school staff who were in that meeting about the drawing and what EC gave as a reason for it. The defense made a big deal about that yesterday when questioning the special agent.

I understand there's a trail of instagrams and a journal that will be a part of the trial. I wonder how the prosecution is going to prove she knew about all of it. A text or FB message here and there to a spouse about being concerned about their child may not be enough. I don't know too many teenagers that share their journal entries with their parents.

Damn, that friend that was on the receiving end of the kill talk and bird torture must seriously be struggling. There will always be that misplaced guilt that someone in authority should have been told.

I'm not sure what EC could bring to her defense besides admitting that he told her nothing about his thoughts of killing and never shared his journal with her. Besides that, it's kind of a gamble. He's been in prison for a while and has had a good deal of time to reflect. He might indeed blame them internally and throw her under the bus.

BBM

If he did reach out and his parents ignored his needs then I can see him being raging mad at his parents and throw them under the bus.
Who knows how his psychiatrists address or don't address his home life and parents?
EC has nothing to lose now since he plead guilty and is serving a life sentence which is being appealed.
His lawyers are fighting the sentence and his mother's motion for him to testify in her defence.
Due to his young age I don;t know if he will be getting continued counseling or it's just during this stage of his sentence/appeal?
If his therapy continues and the end-game is some kind of rehabilitation for him to make some kind of positive life in prison then I would think that delving into the parents/home life would be necessary.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Trial live
Day 2

 

[Izzylizzy]

Another live video.
They may each be part of this mornings testimonies?

 

[Izzylizzy]

I think this is a livestream?

 

[RickshawFan]

Wow...look at all those deputies in the courtroom! They line an entire wall within arm's reach of the defendant.

 

[arielilane]

Trial of Jennifer Crumbley, mother of Oxford High School shooter, continues with second day of testimony

The trial of Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of the Oxford High School shooter, continued Friday with the second day of testimony.

www.cbsnews.com

Trial continues: Jennifer Crumbley, 45, the mother of the Oxford High School shooter, is being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four students at the hands of her son in 2021.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1750941873781547109

 

[Weki]

Wow...look at all those deputies in the courtroom! They line an entire wall within arm's reach of the defendant.

Seems a bit much, no? I don’t think she’s going to jump over the judge’s desk. Or maybe they’re there to protect her against the gallery in case someone jumps over to the defense table. We’ve certainly seen that eg. the Olympic gymnastics doctor sentencing.

Anyway, we’re off to a fiery start this morning. Defense is upset that EC’s out of court statements are coming into evidence. The exception to hearsay is that they are present sense impression of EC. But since EC is pleading the 5th and not testifying, defense can’t impeach him and she can’t impeach him via his psych records/docs either because that’s medical privilege. I think the psych records don’t come in as impeachment testimony anyway bc EC is not testifying. Judge said I can’t break the rules to be more fair to the defendant! JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Who knew?

Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's attorney, was Larry Nasser's attorney. Now, I remember her pleading for Larry Nasser on the grounds that he didn't think he should have to sit through all the victim's testimonies, and the judge in that case making WITHERING remarks at her.

Shannon Smith, Nassar's Attorney, Reps Alleged Oxford Shooter's Parents

The parents of the teen accused of killing four fellow students went missing hours after they were charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

www.newsweek.com

Source for this photo

Shannon Smith in the Nasser trial being addressed by judge:

 

[RickshawFan]

Seems a bit much, no? I don’t think she’s going to jump over the judge’s desk. Or maybe they’re there to protect her against the gallery in case someone jumps over to the defense table. We’ve certainly seen that eg. the Olympic gymnastics doctor sentencing.

Anyway, we’re off to a fiery start this morning. Defense is upset that EC’s out of court statements are coming into evidence. The exception to hearsay is that they are present sense impression of EC. But since EC is pleading the 5th and not testifying, defense can’t impeach him and she can’t impeach him via his psych records/docs either because that’s medical privilege. I think the psych records don’t come in as impeachment testimony anyway bc EC is not testifying. Judge said I can’t break the rules to be more fair to the defendant! JMO

Perhaps they got intel that some nut might try something crazy in that courtroom, and thus the LE lineup. And it struck me that they look kinda like new recruits? (IMO a shift like this actually would be good training for new recruits to get flavor of different aspects of the job.).

 

[Weki]

The defense atty’s hands are shaking. I think her whiny voice, constant apologizing, emotionality etc are perhaps a symptom of her nervousness. She seems ill at ease. I know that this is a tense, high profile case. But if she was Nassar’s atty she’s had her baptism by fire moment and should be more self-assured.

So this cross is her arguing that the Crumbleys weren’t avoiding LE when they hid after the shooting but they feared for their lives. The thing is, them abandoning their son after the shooting doesn’t acquit them either. They went to hotels and were making plans to sell horses and get fast cash. There was no discussion of hiring an atty for their son so far. She keeps saying “you don’t know” what’s not in the texts - well yeah. JMO

 

[MrsWatson]

Ethan had a public defender. The parents have private attorneys.

If they feared for their lives after the school shooting, why were they hiding from LE instead of asking them for help?

 

[Weki]

(After the jurors leave for a 15 mins break) Judge just told defense that some of the questions are repetitive and that’s “gonna make you lose them”, meaning the jurors.

Defense atty says OK

Thank you judge! The cross basically is her asking over and over that the witness wasn’t there and didn’t see what happened outside of the texts. Her high pitched voice (is that the right way to describe it? Her voice is just loud) and cadence, again, is so irritating!

JMO

 

[IAMWAN]

Right now, it seems like her argument is that they may not have had a good enough signal to receive EC's text messages re: demons and people being in the house. She is talking about how sometimes texts won't show up until they return to an area with a stronger signal. The thing is...If her next message to him isn't until the following day (and has literally nothing to do with the messages he sent the night before), that means that there were over 12 hours with zero response. Implying that she maybe possibly could have called him from work would still have shown on EC's call logs. And she can't use the excuse that maybe she called from work during times when she's at the barn? Sigh. I am really struggling with this defense attorney's style of questioning and over-apologizing.

It would have been interesting to know what cell provider the lady at the barn (Kira, maybe?) had. If she had the same provider, that would blow that entire theory up since she is constantly messaging with her from there.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Regarding these texts, was he really experiencing these beliefs, and if so, why? Or was he simply absolutely desperate for some attention?

Prosecutor uses texts to try to show mom of school shooter cared more about horses than son

Prosecutors on Friday sought to portray the mother of a Michigan school shooter as an aloof parent more interested in horses than the mental health of her teenage son who was apparently having hallucinations months before killing four students. Jennifer Crumbley, 45, is on trial for involuntary...

www.aol.com

According to article:
Evidence shows both were riding horses and didn't respond when Ethan sent text messages on March 17, 2021, saying their house was haunted.

"Ethan Crumbley said he was scared because “demons” were “throwing bowls.”

“Can you text back?” he asked his mother."

Three days later:
"“Clothes started flying off the shelf. This stuff only happens when I'm home alone.”

 

[IAMWAN]

Regarding these texts, was he really experiencing these beliefs, and if so, why? Or was he simply absolutely desperate for some attention?

Prosecutor uses texts to try to show mom of school shooter cared more about horses than son

Prosecutors on Friday sought to portray the mother of a Michigan school shooter as an aloof parent more interested in horses than the mental health of her teenage son who was apparently having hallucinations months before killing four students. Jennifer Crumbley, 45, is on trial for involuntary...

www.aol.com

According to article:
Evidence shows both were riding horses and didn't respond when Ethan sent text messages on March 17, 2021, saying their house was haunted.

"Ethan Crumbley said he was scared because “demons” were “throwing bowls.”

“Can you text back?” he asked his mother."

Three days later:
"“Clothes started flying off the shelf. This stuff only happens when I'm home alone.”

I feel like neither of those possibilities should have been ignored by the parents (not saying that you are implying one is better than the other). If my child was telling me any of these things, I would be doing some deep dives into what was going on. No matter whether they are sincerely seeing/believing these things or seeking attention, it should have been taken seriously. MOO.