MI MI - JOHN NORMAN COLLINS Co-Ed Murders 1967-69, Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti

[Winward1]

When it comes to the breaking of patterns, there are all kinds of it in both Zodiac and MCK cases, which is another reason to believe it was the same guy, a killer who was operating on a whole other level.

Both stuck at night and during the day. The MCK used a car and a motorcycle. He killed kids and adults. Like Zodiac, he was all over the map when it came to MOs.

 

[Winward1]

Gary Leiterman, as a suspect, was at least as unlikely as Collins to have murdered Jane Mixer if not more so. If he didn't do it, and I believe a strong argument can be made that he didn't, the MCK (like Zodiac) murdered by knife and by gun.

Mixer's clothing was left not unlike that of Shirley Robison, who was also shot dead in Michigan 7 months before Mixer and handwriting evidence indicates she murdered by Thoresen, who there's a ton of evidence was Zodiac. Of course, Mixer, the Robisons and numerous Zodiac victims were shot with .22s.

And, of course, it appears whoever killed Mixer killed Stephanie Collins. Like Collins not being tried for any of the other murders, Leiterman was not tried for Collins' murder. That's another reason to suspect his conviction was B.S. meant to keep Thoresen's story under wraps.

 

[Richard]

Jane Mixer's murder was included with the other Michigan "Coed" murders from early on (by investigators and press), but it was always noted as having significant differences from the others. Jane was shot with a .22 - probably a revolver. Alice Kalom was also shot with a .22 revolver. Police never revealed what make and model of pistol was used in either case, and neither Collins nor Leiterman was found with a .22 pistol which matched in ballistics to the murder weapons. Spent bullets were found with each victim.

Collins stated in a letter to his cousin that Arnold Davis told him that he had disposed of Collins' pistol. I do not know if Davis ever stated as such to investigators. Andrew Manuel confessed to investigators to taking a .22 pistol from Collins with the intention of selling it when he was fleeing Michigan in late July 1969. He stated that he decided not to try to sell it and instead disposed of it somewhere between Michigan and California.

The Zodiac killer used four different semiautomatic pistols in each of his known murders. He used a .22 in December 1968, a 9mm Browning Hi-Power in July 1969, possibly a .45 Colt Auto was shown to the Lake Berryessa victims in September 1969, and a different 9mm Browning Hi-Power was used to murder the cab driver in October 1969. When one considers all the other potential or theorized Zodiac attacks and murders, there were many different weapons suggested, but none matched ballistics with the four original murder weapons.

While it is known that Mixer and Kalom were shot with .22 pistols, it is also possible that a pistol may have been used to threaten or subdue other victims.

Knives were used on other victims, either to kill, or to slash them post mortem. They were also used to cut clothing from the victims. One of those knives (as mentioned in a previous post) had a 4 inch blade and another one was mentioned as having a 5 inch blade. These undoubtedly would have been sheath knives of the hunting type with rather thick blades, extending all the way through the handle and capable of holding a sharp edge. Since they were used in both a stabbing and a slashing manner, they probably had rather straight blades with a sharp point, and a substantial handle with a finger guard/hilt.

Arnold Davis told investigators that Collins took such a knife from under the seat of his motorcycle and asked him to keep it for him. Davis claimed that he allowed Collins to put it in his dresser, but that he did not touch it. When investigators had the knife checked by lab technicians, it would found to have been completely cleaned of any blood and all fingerprints. It would be interesting to know if it matched any of the wounds in any of the victims.

Since Karen Sue Beineman had been strangled and bludgeoned rather than stabbed, the knife was not introduced into evidence at Collins trial, and Davis was not allowed to mention it.

 

[Winward1]

Like I already pointed out, they all have significant differences. Whatever Arnold Davis said sounds like hearsay. So much of what you write can be boiled down to "so and so told so and so."

So what?

The fact that police believed Beineman's killer returned to the scene of the crime and prosecutors declined to explain otherwise and to cross examine Collin's alibi witnesses for that night is just one reason to believe there was reasonable doubt, even by police, that Collins didn't kill anyone.

 

[Richard]

Like I already pointed out, they all have significant differences. Whatever Arnold Davis said sounds like hearsay. So much of what you write can be boiled down to "so and so told so and so."

So what?

The fact that police believed Beineman's killer returned to the scene of the crime and prosecutors declined to explain otherwise and to cross examine Collin's alibi witnesses for that night is just one reason to believe there was reasonable doubt, even by police, that Collins didn't kill anyone.

Hearsay is a legal term meaning that a person testifying in court is relating something that someone else (other than the accused) told him/her. Hearsay is not allowed and an example would be that one of the Collins defense witnesses was dismissed and his testimony stricken when he admitted that his knowledge of Collins presence and time of arrival at the cycle shop on 23 July 1969 was what he had heard from others (hearsay).

If Arnold Davis testified to something Collins told him, or anything he personally saw Collins do, it is NOT hearsay. If, for instance, Davis were to testify in court that Collins told him he was going to his mother's house in Centerline the evening of 26 July 1969 (as Davis stated to police that same night of the body site stake out), then it would be admissible as an eyewitness observation - not hearsay.

I do not know of any defense objections to Davis' testimony on the basis of it being hearsay. They did not mention Davis appearing as a witness in their appeals.

Beineman's killer returning to the scene is a theory (however believable) not a fact. The running man seen by some of the stake out team was not apprehended or identified. It could have been anybody.

It was the hope of Collins' defense team that inclusion of the running man story would introduce an element of doubt regarding Collins' guilt when coupled with the testimony of Michele Flanders who stated that Collins was in Ortonville that same evening.

The subject of Reasonable Doubt was briefed to the jury and was reiterated by the Judge at the jury's request during their deliberations. So, it was taken into serious consideration prior to their verdict of guilty.

 

[Richard]

52 years ago...



John Norman Collins was visiting California with his friend, Andrew Manuel in June and July of 1969. It is believed that he murdered a 17-year-old girl named Roxie Ann Phillips on 30 June. She was from Milwaukie, Oregon and was visiting relatives in Salinas, CA before continuing on to Lompoc, CA, where she was to meet up with her father and stepmother.

Collins and Manuel had driven from Michigan to California and were staying in a stolen camping trailer which they parked and later abandoned behind the home of Manuel's grandparents. Collins drove a shiny gray or silver Oldsmobile Cutlass with black interior and Michigan plates. The car was later taken into evidence in Michigan. Although he had cleaned it very thoroughly, traces of type O blood were found in it when police checked it on 5 August 1969.

Collins had met Roxie Phillips on 29 June 1969, and had driven her to the home where she was staying in Salinas. He even went into the house with her and met another resident of the house. Although nobody saw him with Roxie on the day of her murder, later evidence tied him to the crime. Roxie was strangled to death with a piece of her flowered summer outfit, and a piece of cloth from that same clothing was found in Collins' car. Roxie's body was found in a ravine near Carmel on 13 July 1969. Some of her personal items were found in various places along the route 68 roadside.

Roxie Ann Phillips was five feet six inches tall, weighed 130 pounds, hazel eyes, fair skin, shoulder-length coppery blond hair. She was last seen wearing a short red pants dress with small white floral design, matching fabric belt, full sleeves with white cuffs, white collar, white sandals, and carrying a large straw tote bag. When her body was found, she was wearing only the white sandals, and had a portion of her cloth belt wrapped around her neck.





LINKS:

Roxie Ann Phillips (1952-1969) - Find A Grave...

Fornology.com : "Terror In Ypsilanti" - Who Were the Victims?

Andrew Julian Manuel Jr. | Ann Arbor District Library

Local Officials Irked As California Drops Collins Case | Ann Arbor District Library

 

[Richard]

LINK:

John Norman Collins: Michigan murders serial killer cases unsolved

 

[Richard]

Besides Roxie Ann Phillips, this article mentions an unidentified girl whose body was found 10 miles north of Salinas, CA on 7 July 1969. Not much more information on her.

San Francisco Chronicle
August 6, 1969 - front page:
Michigan Suspect Linked Directly to Salinas Case

LINK:
Michigan Suspect Linked to Salinas Case - SFC 8/6/69

 

[Ozoner]

Besides Roxie Ann Phillips, this article mentions an unidentified girl whose body was found 10 miles north of Salinas, CA on 7 July 1969. Not much more information on her.

San Francisco Chronicle
August 6, 1969 - front page:
Michigan Suspect Linked Directly to Salinas Case

LINK:
Michigan Suspect Linked to Salinas Case - SFC 8/6/69

It's anybody's guess how of the girls and women murdered during the last 52 years have been Manuel's handiwork.

 

[Richard]

This photo of John Norman Collins appeared in a body building magazine in September 1969 - when Collins was in the Washtenaw County jail awaiting trial for murder. The magazine gave him the name "Bill Kenyon", described him as a "teenage body builder", and predicted a great future for him.

 

[Richard]

Collins' Pistol...

John Norman Collins was said to have possessed a .22 handgun - most likely a revolver, although one was never found by investigators. What was found in Collins's belongings were 175 rounds of Remington .22 ammunition. This would have been three and a half boxes worth (50 rounds each).



Andrew Manuel claimed that he stole a pistol, along with some rifles and shotguns from Collins just prior to his (Manuel's) fleeing Michigan in July 1969. Collins had stolen the rifles and shotguns from fraternity brothers earlier. Those were recovered by police, but not the pistol - which Manuel claimed to have not sold, but rather disposed of when he was enroute to California by bus. He was vague as to what he actually did with it, and could not or would not state what make and model the pistol was.

Collins claimed that Arnold Davis disposed of his .22 pistol, taken from the glovebox of Collins' Oldsmobile after they had done some target shooting with it.

Both Jane Mixer and Alice Kalom were shot in the head with a .22 pistol. Spent bullets were recovered as evidence. One news report stated that the weapon was a Hi Standard revolver.

Because Karen Sue Beineman was killed by strangulation and by trauma from being beaten with a blunt object - rather than by firearm or knife, Collins' hunting knife and the .22 ammunition were not entered into evidence during his trial for her murder. It was the prosecution's conscious and careful effort to keep all other murders separate from the Beineman case during the trial.

As with so many elements of the Coed murders case, it is largely circumstantial evidence which connects Collins to them.

One has to wonder what really became of his pistol (for which he clearly had ammunition). And one also has to wonder why he had so carefully cleaned his hunting knife of all fingerprints and any blood - after taking it from under the seat of his motorcycle and before placing it in Arnold Davis' dresser drawer.

Collins also carefully cleaned his stolen camping trailer and Oldsmobile of ALL fingerprints. And he carefully cleaned the Leik basement - making a special effort to paint over what he thought were blood stains. Was he simply a person obsessed with cleanliness - or was he intentionally destroying evidence which could connect him to murders?

 

[Richard]

Cars like the ones owned and driven by John Norman Collins:


1958 DeSoto


1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass

 

[Richard]

Today marks 52 years since Karen Sue Beineman's body was found. Her murder and the investigation which followed led to the arrest and conviction of John Norman Collins.

Karen Sue Beineman
BIRTH 10 Feb 1951
Grand Rapids, Kent County, Michigan, USA
DEATH 23 Jul 1969 (aged 18)
Ypsilanti, Washtenaw County, Michigan, USA
BURIAL
Rest Lawn Memorial Park
Grand Rapids, Kent County, Michigan, USA
PLOT Section 26, row 51, grave 1

LINK:

Karen Sue Beineman (1951-1969) - Find A Grave...

 

[Winward1]

Joan Goshe didn't just change her story about what kind of motorcycle she saw the suspect on, she changed her story about the time that Beineman entered her shop.

First she said it was 12:15, in a statement that she signed. Then, at a pretrial hearing, she changed it to 12:30.

Then it was revealed that she lied twice under oath before testifying. Then it was revealed that she wasn't wearing her glasses at the time that she saw the suspect.

It was also revealed that she was shown photos of Collins before she saw him in a lineup.

She was a joke of a witness. And she was their star witness.

 

[Richard]

Joan Goshe didn't just change her story about what kind of motorcycle she saw the suspect on, she changed her story about the time that Beineman entered her shop.

First she said it was 12:15, in a statement that she signed. Then, at a pretrial hearing, she changed it to 12:30.

Then it was revealed that she lied twice under oath before testifying. Then it was revealed that she wasn't wearing her glasses at the time that she saw the suspect.

It was also revealed that she was shown photos of Collins before she saw him in a lineup.

She was a joke of a witness. And she was their star witness.

Regardless of any fifteen minute discrepancy or anything else, Ms. Goshe and Ms. Spaulding both testified that it was John Norman Collins who drove off with Karen Sue Beineman on a motorcycle from the Wig Shop that day. They were the last known witnesses (besides John Norman Collins) to see Miss Beineman alive.

Speaking of changing stories - Collins has since admitted, both verbally and in writing, that he did in fact, give Karen a ride to and from the Wig shop that day. He essentially corroborated the statements of the three witnesses who testified to Karen's and Collins' presence there.

He went on to present an elaborate tale of how he innocently took her to his uncle's house and how his room mate Arnold Davis just happened to show up and kill her while he was away - and he included an even more incredible scenario on how his DNA ended up inside her.

 

[Winward1]

I present proof that Goshe lied during her testimony, numerous times over, and you reply nevertheless she testified...

My response to that is "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Then you note things like Joan Schell was last seen getting into a vehicle with a man who matched the description of Collins.

Given that Thoresen was the same height as Collins, had the same hair color as Collins, parted his hair the same way as Collins and had a similar build as Collins (and the witness knew neither people) this is as much incriminating to Thoresen as it is to Collins.

Then compare their priors and it's no contest.

 

[Winward1]

And let's talk about those innocent cops who threatened a witness with perjury if he didn't commit perjury.

Meanwhile, the testimony from a cop's basement that was used to convict Collins is laughable. His wife gave her son a haircut in their basement but didn't sweep the hair up off of the floor before going on vacation.

And what about that newfangled "science" that the prosecution's paid witness used when testifying about the hair evidence, neutron molecular thingamabob (which apparently was never heard of in a court of law again.)

Meanwhile, Collins, who was no dummy and successfully had murdered six people, none in places anyone was living in and all who were murdered at night but then, when this case was hot as an incoming meteor, decided to pick up his latest victim and parade her around town in broad daylight before killing her.

Yeah, sure.

 

[Richard]

I present proof that Goshe lied during her testimony, numerous times over, and you reply nevertheless she testified...

My response to that is "HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Then you note things like Joan Schell was last seen getting into a vehicle with a man who matched the description of Collins.

Given that Thoresen was the same height as Collins, had the same hair color as Collins, parted his hair the same way as Collins and had a similar build as Collins (and the witness knew neither people) this is as much incriminating to Thoresen as it is to Collins.

Then compare their priors and it's no contest.

Correction: You have ALLEGED numerous times that Ms. Goshe lied during her testimony. You have yet to present any PROOF of your allegations. Her testimony was allowed (after legal consideration of objections) and it placed John Norman Collins with Karen Sue Beineman shortly before her murder. Her testimony to that was corroborated by other witnesses and (in 2014) by Collins himself.

The same can be said of your theory of Thoresen being a "stunt double" to Collins, stepping in at the last minute to murder young women in Collins' local area. You have yet to provide any proof that Thoresen was ever in Michigan at any time - let alone in the specific places and times the murders were committed.

 

[Winward1]

Anyone who wants proof that Goshe lied during her testimony can read the transcripts of the trial, which showed that she lied in her original statement, which she signed, regarding when Beineman was in her shop. It was also revealed that she lied when she applied for a marriage license.

Then she lied in a pretrial hearing about evidence, the motorcycle. The phrase "changed her story" comes up but that's a nice way of saying lied.

My "theory" that Thoresen was the M.C.K. is backed by all kinds of facts that surround this case like:

1. A massive investigation, perhaps the largest ever in the state of Michigan, was unable to find a suspect who could be linked to a vehicle with an MI plate. And that's no less than three vehicles (two cars and a motorcycle, including a Honda like Mrs. Liar originally identified. Gee, I wonder why she changed her story on that?)

2. Anyone knowledgable can see that Collins does not have the resume to have committed the Beineman murder, not the way it was done. Not no way. Not no how.

3. It strains the bounds of credibility that Collins was able to get away with six or seven other murders, as they occurred, as well as paraded Beineman around town on a motorcycle in broad daylight. Like Collins not having the resume to have killed Beineman, these facts do not add up.

4. Even the cops believed that whomever returned to the the Beineman crime scene was her killer. The prosecution didn't even bother to argue that it was Collins. His alibi was iron clad.

5. Thoresen not only fit Collins' description, but owned a Honda like Mrs. Liar originally described, plus numerous out of state registered vehicles and he rented cars often. This, plus traveling as he did and all of the above are too many coincidences to overlook.

6. Thoresen also fits the description of a man seen in a car minutes before the murders at Lake Berryessa, which in yet another coincidence (we've lost count by now) and sounds a lot like the car that was driven by the suspect who was harassing Mary Fleszar minutes before Fleszar disappeared.

7. Thoresen also just so happened to live not far from where Roxie Ann Phillips was murdered. Gee, another coincidence!

8. Mrs. Liar just so happened to also change her story about the motorcycle between the time that Thoresen died and Collins was tried.

9. Thoresen had the resume to be the M.C.K. His wife convinced a jury that he murdered numerous people. One of those murders was in the midwest. And it's record that he committed numerous bone breaking assaults. There's nothing like this in the background of Collins.

Boy, I wonder why cops were harassing witnesses and saying evidence (an inexplicably complicated story) against Collins came from one of their basements. All of this is highly credible, I'm sure!

 

[Brotherfudz]

Never heard about #4 in regards to him have an iron clad alibi that it wasn’t him revisiting the scene. Can you please elaborate?