MI MI - JOHN NORMAN COLLINS Co-Ed Murders 1967-69, Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti

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It is kind of funny how, wherever facts and evidence point to when and where William Thoresen murdered, monumental efforts—up to and including just a few years ago—have been made to keep information secret.

This includes much money spent by the Village of Kenilworth, Illinois, to quash an FOIA request (to keep every document of the Percy case secret) and the firing of an Attorney in Florida (who was investigating the Sims family murders, the judge in Chicago and the lawyer's boss in FL used the same verbiage about an "ongoing investigation" for their actions to quash further investigation) to name but two. (Indeed, there were ongoing investigations into these 50-year-old murder cases which had not seen an arrest, ever. Gee, I wonder if they're hiding anything.)

And the appeals court in Michigan (the court system of which otherwise inexplicably did not charge "serial killer" Collins in any of the other crimes, did not grant him a change of venue despite his case being the most publicized in the state of the 1960s, and had the prosecution hassling defense witnesses and calling a liar their star witness.

The fact that they didn't have a plate number on the bike doesn't matter. They had state vehicle registration records and came up with nothing. That's because the vehicles in these cases were out of state.
 
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"While lawyers could (and did) argue about Collins being identified as the motorcyclist, he was picked out of a police line up by both women of the Wig Shop, and later identified in court."

Picked out of a police (who hassled defense witnesses) lineup by (at least one woman who was exposed as being a liar and a perjurer.)

They didn't argue. They proved she was a liar. And that she lied about the bike. This, along with the witness who reported being hassled by police (and provided Collins with an alibi), Thoresen being the spitting image of Collins and owning the required vehicles, the inability to find a suspect via state vehicle records (not to mention the highly sketchy conviction of another man, decades later in the Mixer case, who was also an unlikely suspect for that crime) proves it was rigged to keep what the feds have always known about Thoresen (though feared it getting out as it is now out) and is now being known to everyone. It's airtight.

Nothing about Collins, from the motive required to commit this crime, to his behavior during pre-trial hearings and after his conviction, fits the crime. I do admire you sticking to your guns, though, despite any and all facts to the contrary which completely obliterate the cloud of B.S. that has been so carefully constructed to hide the truth. But the truth will eventually undermine any other version of the story as it is so clearly doing in this one.
 
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"Collins was charged with the murder of Karen Sue Beineman. He was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison."

A jury found O.J. innocent. Juries render verdicts on the trials presented to them, regardless of how little integrity the justice system/government sometimes has.

"More interviews were conducted..." by who? The cops who hassled defense witnesses? Don't worry we can trust the system. Heh-heh.

I love how history serves up delicious ironies, like the owner of wig shop who lies in order to assist a coverup.
 
Where are the original, dated police reports that confirm this? There’s all kinds of evidence that this investigation, and then trial, became corrupted. Not to mention none of this accounts for the fact that a witness who knew Collins stated he was elsewhere at the time and was hassled by police simply for stating this fact. What’s more, it is simply unbelievable that a guy with Collins background committed this crime yet was not charged with any of the others.

Constructing a time line for the murder of Karen Sue Beineman from the time she left the Wig Shop was important to investigators as they tried to determine whether or not Collins could account for his where abouts. The critical time in question was between about 12:30 and 1:00 pm on Wednesday, the 23rd of July 1969 (the day Karen Sue Beineman went missing).

Investigators interviewed Collins and he stated that he had gone to a cycle shop around 1:00 pm, then to a fast food place and then to his rooming house at 619 Emmet Street, where he spent the rest of the day with his buddies Arnold Davis and Andrew Manuel.

The alibi witness you refer to was Collins' room mate Arnold Davis.

When asked about his recollection of where Collins was that day, Davis told a story of how he, Collins, and Andrew Manuel were together that afternoon and into the evening. Asked about the exact time Collins arrived, Davis initially told investigators that it was "around two thirty".

Andrew Manuel left town very suddenly when he learned that police were interested in Collins. He took a bus to California, pawning a number of stolen items to buy the bus ticket. He admitted to stealing a .22 revolver from Collins with the intention of selling it, but decided instead to dispose of it somewhere between Michigan and California.

When Manuel was captured by the FBI in Arizona, he was charged with two counts of felony theft and returned to Michigan. He agreed to cop a plea in which he would tell all he knew about Collins. Although, none of the information he gave them was used in the trial, there was one critical piece of information he gave investigators. Manuel confirmed Davis' story about the three of them being together the afternoon of 23 July, but he was sure that it was more like 4:30 pm that Collins showed up.

Investigators again interviewed Arnold Davis and questioned him about his "around two thirty" estimate. At that time, Davis stated that he recalled Collins having "suggested" that time to him, and that he thought the time of Collins' arrival home was later.

The time estimate was a critical part of Collin's alibi, because the later time (4:30 pm) meant that he had time to kill Karen Sue between the time she was last seen, and his arrival at 619 Emmet.

Arnold Davis also provided police with information regarding Collins disposing of a box he had kept at the rooming house which contained some articles of women's apparel: a shoe, a purse, and a pair of jeans. It was believed by investigators that souvenirs had been taken from each of the victims, and these few seen by Davis matched what investigators were looking for.

Davis also provided them with a knife Collins had given him, which he took from under the seat of one of his motorcycles and asked Davis to keep for him. The knife had been thoroughly cleaned of all finger prints.

Collins was only charged with, tried for, and convicted of the murder of Karen Sue Beineman. A number of factors probably went into that decision. While Collins was believed by many investigators (and there were several from different jurisdictions) to have committed at least some of the other seven or so, it was very likely rules of evidence which precluded prosecutors from charging him with other murders.

The murder of Roxie Ann Phillips in California on or about 30 June 1969 was likely committed by John Norman Collins, but was not within the jurisdiction of Michigan prosecutors. California wanted him extradited to stand trial for her murder, but Michigan Governor Milliken refused to extradite Collins until all Michigan trials and appeals were complete.

Most of the clues which tended to tie Collins to the other Michigan Co-Ed murders were circumstantial at best. For example;
- he was known to frequent the same apartment complex as Maralynn Skelton,
- he rode his motorcycle on the back roads where Dawn Basom lived,
- he had owned a .22 revolver and both Jane Mixer and Alice Elizabeth Kalom had been shot with one.
- He had been seen by two witnesses with Joan Schell the night of her disappearance.
- Crime scenes had a number of similarities.

Probably the next best Michigan case that Collins could have been successfully prosecuted for would have been the murder of Alice Elizabeth Kalom, who was murdered on or about 7 June 1969.

Arnold Davis stated that he, Collins, and another man (whom he could/would not identify) were driving around in the third man's car (described by others as being red and black in color), when they stopped and broke into the Student Union building to make a phone call. They were seen by a custodian and chased out.

Davis described them next picking up a girl (probably Kalom) at a bus stop, with Collins promising her a ride home. He stated that they all drove back to the rooming house, where he went to bed, the driver of the car departed, and Collins promised to drive the girl home in his own car.

Davis relayed the story that Collins told him the next morning regarding what took place later. When Davis heard of Kalom's death, he mentioned it to Collins and Collins told him never to mention "the coincidence".
 
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"Constructing a time line for the murder of Karen Sue Beineman from the time she left the Wig Shop was important to investigators ..."

Once again, you cite sources who harassed defense witnesses, calling into question their credibility as investigators and yours by using them as sources. You also use Mrs. Wig Shop as if she were a credible witness when the defense proved in court that she was a liar.

You have misrepresented her being proved a liar by saying the "defense argued" when they didn't argue. They proved she lied. This also calls into question your credibility.

"The alibi witness you refer to was Collins' room mate Arnold Davis."

Um, no. The alibi witness I referred to was an employee of the motorcycle shop Collins was in at the time in question. Remember, the one the police didn't like what he had to say—the one who complained he was harassed by police regarding his statements about where Collins was and when.

Meanwhile, the prosecution didn't even bother trying to explain how Mrs. Wig Shop changed her story about the motorcycle. Or why she would. This was because she was caught in a blatant lie. Her shop should have been called Joan's Lies.

Wikipedia (which is corrupt as any mainstream media outlet these days) says "she mistakenly" said the motorcycle was a Honda 350 without offering one iota of evidence as to how or why she was mistaken. Hmmm....

There's no doubt her employee said what she said about the Triumph after they were initially interviewed, their stories changing after Thoresen was dead. This is conspicuous considering the obvious police misconduct involved, and a mountain of evidence that Thoresen (counting the Michigan Murders) killed no less than 55 persons, many of them long after the FBI stated their belief that he was the psycho who beat and stabbed one of his former neighbors to death with a freaking bayonet.

There are all kinds of sources, books, etcetera, written about the Michigan Murders case later that cite police sources when it's clear the cops sought to rig this case, which makes sense because even a nitwit, at this point, can tell Collins was no killer. Of course, you, nor the prosecution, have offered no explanation, no motive for why he would have committed this crime the way it went down. It's less believable than Mrs. Wig Shop, proprietor of Joan's Lies.

If you put the Beineman murder on the left side of a scale, and Collins on its right, the left side would still laying on the tabletop. There is no balance whatsoever here between crime and criminal. But I appreciate how well you've been propagandized.
 
The case against Collins, even with its contradictions and uncertain witnesses - and loose ends regarding some of the murders, was detailed in volumes of reports, evidence, and court records.

In all of your writing, you have not cited one single reference or piece of evidence to prove that William Thoresen was even in Michigan during the time of any of the Co-Ed murders.
 
Lies and harassment of witnesses do not equal "contradictions and uncertain witnesses."

Your credibility is blown as you continually misrepresent the fact that the star witness was outed as a liar. A liar who while sworn committed perjury though apparently paid no price whatsoever for it (gee, in this case? Go figure.)

The case against Collins (a serial killer convicted of one murder) makes no sense whatsoever. Him, a guy who lettered in three sports while in high school, head of the Spanish Club, his girlfriends all said he was a perfect gentleman suddenly transformed into monster who, despite being one of the smartest kids in his school decided to drive his victim into the center of town so everyone could get a good look at him before he murdered her in the basement of a relative who was a cop.

You somehow find credibility in this fairy tale because of volumes of bulls*#t written long after the fact by investigators who were crooked (though not of their own volition, but of feds who wanted to throw anyone in the slammer for crimes they knew Thoresen committed to protect their butts.)

Meanwhile, I've provided lots of reasons to believe Thoresen not only was in Michigan during these murders (the shady nature of Collins' trail is but one reason) but shown that it's uncanny the way everything from the motive, MOs, witness statements regarding vehicles, the fact that his basic description is spot on with Collins, not to mention the Michigan Murders just so happen to fit a timeline that includes Zodiac, the murders of Morrison and Means in Illinois, the Robison Family murders, etc.
 
Lies and harassment of witnesses do not equal "contradictions and uncertain witnesses."

Your credibility is blown as you continually misrepresent the fact that the star witness was outed as a liar. A liar who while sworn committed perjury though apparently paid no price whatsoever for it (gee, in this case? Go figure.)

The case against Collins (a serial killer convicted of one murder) makes no sense whatsoever. Him, a guy who lettered in three sports while in high school, head of the Spanish Club, his girlfriends all said he was a perfect gentleman suddenly transformed into monster who, despite being one of the smartest kids in his school decided to drive his victim into the center of town so everyone could get a good look at him before he murdered her in the basement of a relative who was a cop.

You somehow find credibility in this fairy tale because of volumes of bulls*#t written long after the fact by investigators who were crooked (though not of their own volition, but of feds who wanted to throw anyone in the slammer for crimes they knew Thoresen committed to protect their butts.)

Meanwhile, I've provided lots of reasons to believe Thoresen not only was in Michigan during these murders (the shady nature of Collins' trail is but one reason) but shown that it's uncanny the way everything from the motive, MOs, witness statements regarding vehicles, the fact that his basic description is spot on with Collins, not to mention the Michigan Murders just so happen to fit a timeline that includes Zodiac, the murders of Morrison and Means in Illinois, the Robison Family murders, etc.
Ever feel compelled to fight for Collins' freedom?
 
  • I'm not a lawyer. Information regarding this has been forwarded to a pertinent innocence project. The person who took it (who by the way was familiar with the Mixer case and related conviction) found it interesting and said it would be sent up the chain of command. Otherwise, I've stood in a courtroom and watched as ridiculous excuses (and extraordinary effort) has been made to keep half century old police reports secret. I think even giving him a hearing would be opening a can of worms the feds have kept closed in cases that appear related, too many to be a coincidence. That is all part of my latest book. All I can say is, knowing the guy is still alive and what it all looks like from here, I could not sit on it in good faith. I hope to release a lot more of what I know ASAP. At present I'm content that there's been no pushback to my Thoresen was Zodiac (and then some) release.
 
  • I'm not a lawyer. Information regarding this has been forwarded to a pertinent innocence project. The person who took it (who by the way was familiar with the Mixer case and related conviction) found it interesting and said it would be sent up the chain of command. Otherwise, I've stood in a courtroom and watched as ridiculous excuses (and extraordinary effort) has been made to keep half century old police reports secret. I think even giving him a hearing would be opening a can of worms the feds have kept closed in cases that appear related, too many to be a coincidence. That is all part of my latest book. All I can say is, knowing the guy is still alive and what it all looks like from here, I could not sit on it in good faith. I hope to release a lot more of what I know ASAP. At present I'm content that there's been no pushback to my Thoresen was Zodiac (and then some) release.
I admire your tenacity. It will be jaw dropping if your efforts change any outcomes.

Would you happen to have ever looked into the late '60s Robison family case?
 
As you've alluded to, it will take more than my efforts. In my last book I credit Thoresen with (off the top of my head) 47 murders, including the Robisons, whom I have no doubt he lured to their summer place with the intention of killing them. Like I said, I am not the first to say that attack was Zodiac. I am the first to say it was Zodiac and Zodiac was Thoresen.

He fits the Robison case in uncanny ways and it was a very dynamic, weird set of circumstances. I believe all of this has been known by the powers that be for many decades and there's much evidence of this in the way of propaganda and thwarted investigations, a lot of which my last book documents. I took another look at the Michigan Murders while looking for signs of Thoresen. The first thing I noticed was Collins being a dead ringer for his basic physical description. Then I read about the lying and harassment in the Collins investigation and the off of the wall arrest in the Mixer case.
 
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Your credibility is blown as you continually misrepresent the fact that the star witness was outed as a liar. A liar who while sworn committed perjury though apparently paid no price whatsoever for it (gee, in this case? Go figure.)...

You somehow find credibility in this fairy tale because of volumes of bulls*#t written long after the fact by investigators who were crooked (though not of their own volition, but of feds who wanted to throw anyone in the slammer for crimes they knew Thoresen committed to protect their butts.)

Meanwhile, I've provided lots of reasons to believe Thoresen not only was in Michigan during these murders...

My personal knowledge of the Michigan Co-ed Murders goes back to 1969 when I read of them in the Detroit newspapers. I referred to those original articles when I started this thread. You are correct to point out that there have been a few books written about the murders in recent years.

You seem to be wrapped around the axel regarding Mrs. Goshe's identification of the motorcycle. She picked one out at a cycle shop that she thought looked like the one she saw. That particular bike she pointed out happened to be a Honda 450. How does that constitute perjury? If you read the summary of the decision regarding Collins appeal, you will see that his defense lawyers never claimed that she lied to the court.

http://www.ecases.us/case/michctapp/1645832/people-v-collins

Another eyewitness (in the adjacent store) stated that she saw the bike and rider with Karen Sue at the time they left the Wig Shop, and she thought the bike was a Triumph. So investigators were not sure exactly what make of motorcycle the unidentified (at that point) suspect rode.

Mrs. Goshe identified John Norman Collins as the person she saw with Karen Sue Beineman on 23 July 1969 - shortly before her murder. The type of motorcycle he rode was not relevant at that point.

Are you saying that she KNEW that the suspect was actually Thoresen and intentionally LIED to frame Collins? Now that might be perjury - but a woman who did not know motorcycles, and who only saw a particular one briefly, mistaking the exact make and model hardly qualifies as perjury.

What was Thoresen's connection to Ypsilanti? What evidence places him there between 1967 and 1969?

How is it that "the Feds" KNEW Thoresen was in Michigan, and allowed him to commit murders there without consequence? Are these all-knowing Feds that same ones that couldn't find the Unibomber for 17 years?
 
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"Constructing a time line for the murder of Karen Sue Beineman from the time she left the Wig Shop was important to investigators ..."

Once again, you cite sources who harassed defense witnesses, calling into question their credibility as investigators and yours by using them as sources. You also use Mrs. Wig Shop as if she were a credible witness when the defense proved in court that she was a liar.

You have misrepresented her being proved a liar by saying the "defense argued" when they didn't argue. They proved she lied. This also calls into question your credibility.

"The alibi witness you refer to was Collins' room mate Arnold Davis."

Um, no. The alibi witness I referred to was an employee of the motorcycle shop Collins was in at the time in question. Remember, the one the police didn't like what he had to say—the one who complained he was harassed by police regarding his statements about where Collins was and when.

Meanwhile, the prosecution didn't even bother trying to explain how Mrs. Wig Shop changed her story about the motorcycle. Or why she would. This was because she was caught in a blatant lie. Her shop should have been called Joan's Lies.

Wikipedia (which is corrupt as any mainstream media outlet these days) says "she mistakenly" said the motorcycle was a Honda 350 without offering one iota of evidence as to how or why she was mistaken. Hmmm....

There's no doubt her employee said what she said about the Triumph after they were initially interviewed, their stories changing after Thoresen was dead. This is conspicuous considering the obvious police misconduct involved, and a mountain of evidence that Thoresen (counting the Michigan Murders) killed no less than 55 persons, many of them long after the FBI stated their belief that he was the psycho who beat and stabbed one of his former neighbors to death with a freaking bayonet.

There are all kinds of sources, books, etcetera, written about the Michigan Murders case later that cite police sources when it's clear the cops sought to rig this case, which makes sense because even a nitwit, at this point, can tell Collins was no killer. Of course, you, nor the prosecution, have offered no explanation, no motive for why he would have committed this crime the way it went down. It's less believable than Mrs. Wig Shop, proprietor of Joan's Lies.

If you put the Beineman murder on the left side of a scale, and Collins on its right, the left side would still laying on the tabletop. There is no balance whatsoever here between crime and criminal. But I appreciate how well you've been propagandized.
You have no proof of any of that, just your supposition that everyone lied except Collins.
 
The supposition that a guy with a background like Collins was capable of committing the Beineman murder, let alone that he would commit such a crime after riding her into town and putting himself on display at midday beforehand is ludicrous.

But if that's the position you want to take, it's a free country. But that's where you're starting your argument.

Otherwise, anyone reading this thread can see that you guys have conveniently skipped around the issue of police corruption here, the hassling of defense witnesses. Can you explain why they would have done this? Or are you going to continue to look away when the subject comes up? It appears you have no answer for it.

And you know as well as I do that this fact, along with the evidence in this case coming out of a cop's basement does not look good. Given what's on record about said corruption, it's no surprise the number of witnesses that came out of the woodwork before this trail. Big whoop. And there are Mrs. Wig Shop's lies.

Otherwise, there is a mountain of evidence that these murders were committed by Zodiac. .22 firearm, stabbings, no sex assault, terrorizing a metro area with repeated murders, a criminal determined and smart enough to switch vehicles (after publication of info on the first one which sounds synonymous with one seen by witnesses who described a suspect in a silver blue Chevy, at Lake Berryessa, who could not have sounded more like Thoresen. Then there's the timeline. There are no conflicts with those murders and Michigan, tough they all occurred in 1969.)

I'll grant you this story is off the wall crazy. That the feds would send innocent guys to jail to cover their butts because Thorsen killed at minimum, 55 people, was Zodiac. But the documents exist that they knew he killed a US senator's daughter in the most psycho of attacks years before. And they sat on it rather than share it with the cops running that investigation. I knew some of those cops and, if this got out, how many judges (who let Thoresen be bonded out after breaking people's arms, setting off bombs, raping, hoarding military weaponry) not to mention the director of the FBI, would have been toast?

There's a reason they say the truth is stranger than fiction. It actually is. There's a mountain of evidence that Thoresen was Zodiac. And it's being ignored by everyone over at zodiac blank dot com for a reason. They can't push back against it and they feel threatened by it.
 
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Also, I'm no expert on serial killers. But I know enough to know that Collins' background sounds like the antithesis of those who end up as killers. Richard, I don't understand your explanation of Mrs. Wig Shop's changing her story on the motorcycle. But I hope you've got a friend who can untie you from that pretzel-like shape it sounds like you've had to put yourself into to explain it.
 
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There is no doubt that John Norman Collins is a very intelligent individual who was handsome and charming. He used those attributes in his attempts to meet and "pick up" young women.

Collins probably did not commit murder for the purpose of terrorizing a metropolitan area. More likely, something in him snapped at various times, causing him to become extremely violent. There were many times that he dated or picked up women and did NOT get violent with them.

IF... Collins was in fact the killer of several young women and girls in the Ypsilanti/Ann Arbor area, then the pattern and timing would indicate that he was accelerating and getting more bold and reckless in his activity. Most of the abductions/murders took place in evening hours, but that of Karen Sue Beineman occurred in mid day.

These murders were extremely violent events. Victims were killed in a number of different ways. Two were shot in the head with a .22 pistol, several were stabbed, some were beaten into an unrecognizable form, and others were strangled to death, by hand and by cord.

All were left in the open in various secluded places, but in close local proximity. There were some similarities in the victims and something was missing from each (different items). It was believed that most had been killed in a different location from where their bodies were found.

Besides the seven women who were originally (in 1969) thought to be victims by a serial killer, there were other murder victims who were also considered as possibly being connected. Margaret Phillips was a University of Michigan graduate student who was shot in her apartment, but that killer was soon caught and confessed. A young woman was murdered in her home, but the husband was charged with her murder.

In December 1967, a little girl named Eileen Marie Adams from Toledo, Ohio was found near US 23 in Monroe County, Michigan - about 25 miles south of Ypsilanti. Monroe police investigators felt there was a connection with the "Co-ed" murders, but the Washtenaw County investigators (then the lead investigators) did not feel that it was connected. It wasn't until Robert Bowman was caught, tried, and convicted of her murder in 2011 that Eileen's case was closed. At that time, DNA evidence helped to convict him.

The murder of Jane Mixer was always listed among the "Co-ed" murders, but it was always considered a very different one. She was fully clothed, shot to death (with a .22), left in a cemetery, and not sexually molested. Although her murder did not exactly fit the pattern of others, she remained on the books as an unsolved murder until DNA evidence taken matched with registered sex offender, Gary Leiterman. He was subsequently convicted of her murder and died in prison.

So, there were other killers active in Michigan at the time, and some, like Robert Bowman could be classified as "serial killers".

Was Collins a serial killer? Most likely. He was convicted of Karen Sue Beineman's murder and almost certainly killed Roxie Ann Phillips in California. He was connected to least some of the remaining "unsolved" Co-ed cases. Questions certainly remain.
 
The defense lawyers proved Mrs. Wig Shop lied in court. And the proved she was a liar elsewhere.

And, once again, starting with a murder like Beineman and a suspect like Collins is ludicrous. A lot of ludicrous stuff goes on in US courtrooms every day. You seem to act like the justice system is infallible. The mere fact that someone was convicted seems good enough to pass muster with you. It sounds like something in your past, a possible a role within it, would be responsible for such a bias.
 
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"Collins probably did not commit murder for the purpose of terrorizing a metropolitan area."

This statement is in conflict with what most certainly was the motive for the Michigan Murders, which could not be more Zodiac like from a motive perspective. The fact that the brutality unleashed upon the victims was upped as time went along is proof of this.

There's no evidence Collins snapped, went mental, etcetera. That could not be more speculative and baseless. Handsome jocks womanizing in the seventies is not fodder for a serial killer. It was for books and movies like North Dallas 40.
 
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Mixer was different. Like Zodiac, there were shootings and stabbings, victims who were targeted at night and during the day.
 

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