MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[DazednConfuzed09]

The family dynamics are so complex in this case, I would suggest the "normal" rules of healthy interaction do not apply. You have a woman who had kids at 14, relied on her parents, married a man who is now highly suspect due to a variety of data points we have discussed throughout these threads. Kim & Jennifer appear to be in deep denial, and that's understandable. They are trying to hang on to an anchor, whatever it may be.

While I agree it is absolutely critical that the Grandparents and Kim team up (now more than ever), I am gauging my assessment by what LE has provided. As such, not only do I believe the Grandparents have a reason to be concerned, I think Kim and girls should immediately take residence with one of them. This is a highly volatile situation, and the POI is unstable.
As usual, my armchair perspective.

For once I do agree with a few points you have made Roses. I believe our new verified insider has shed some valuable light on how dysfunctional things were for the family from the moment the twins were born. It is very sad to read all this. I do, however, find it very strange that the insider states that their grandmother left the twins with grandpa and just walked away. Is this the same grandmother that Julia went to live with years later? Just my opinion, but I could assume that maybe Julia went to stay with grandma to resolve some abandonment issues from years earlier. Perhaps grandma allowed Julia do to whatever she pleased while she was living there just to make amends with her. These are just a few thoughts I'm pondering.

Seems to me that everyone in this family needs to seek counseling for various reasons. This is absolutely a heartbreaking story from many different angles.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I find it interesting how the focus has shifted from "Justice for Julia" to "Justice for JT", now a "victim". But as I dwell on that perception, it dawns on me that Julia (our true victim here), was the black sheep of the family. Kim & Jennifer are seemingly obedient to JT, but Julia was the one who left to go live with Grandma. Even in death, Kim & Jennifer separate themselves from her by focusing on "justice for JT" vs. Julia. Very interesting dynamic, and very sad.

As usual, opinion and speculation only.

Thanks for your candor in stating this. I have become increasingly disappointed with the direction and focus of this discussion. Julia Niswender is the victim for whom I want justice. :moo:

 

[rosesfromangels]

For once I do agree with a few points you have made Roses. I believe our new verified insider has shed some valuable light on how dysfunctional things were for the family from the moment the twins were born. It is very sad to read all this. I do, however, find it very strange that the insider states that their grandmother left the twins with grandpa and just walked away. Is this the same grandmother that Julia went to live with years later? Just my opinion, but I could assume that maybe Julia went to stay with grandma to resolve some abandonment issues from years earlier. Perhaps grandma allowed Julia do to whatever she pleased while she was living there just to make amends with her. These are just a few thoughts I'm pondering.

Seems to me that everyone in this family needs to seek counseling for various reasons. This is absolutely a heartbreaking story from many different angles.

: )
I actually encourage opposing viewpoints. It helps us get to the truth. Our own perceptions are based largely on our own experiences and data we have gathered. Respect and appreciate everyone on this thread.
Now off to enjoy the Cali sunshine!

 

[Trojan1966]

Julia might have been running the water in the tub as she got undressed. Perhaps she checked the water level in the tub at one point before she was actually ready to step into the tub. To me, partially clothed simply means in the process of undressing to prepare for a bath. :moo:

BDE- Knowing Julia and also talking to her close friends, Julia very seldom took a bath. She preferred to shower and did that 99.99% of the time. Just passing on some info for you.

 

[FindHG]

BDE- Knowing Julia and also talking to her close friends, Julia very seldom took a bath. She preferred to shower and did that 99.99% of the time. Just passing on some info for you.

Thank you. Trojan1966, for helping us see through it all. Very much appreciated. I think bessie has it right on this thread about how Julia may have been murdered.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

BDE- Knowing Julia and also talking to her close friends, Julia very seldom took a bath. She preferred to shower and did that 99.99% of the time. Just passing on some info for you.

Thanks! Same for me, but I turn on the shower for the water to heat up before stepping in. Julia could have done the same thing - especially during the winter - and was in the process of undressing while the water reached appropriate temperature.

 

[black_squirrel]

BDE- Knowing Julia and also talking to her close friends, Julia very seldom took a bath. She preferred to shower and did that 99.99% of the time. Just passing on some info for you.

If the scene was staged, then the perp did not know about her shower habits. This indicates that the perp did not live with her for an extended period of time - especially not in a house without a bathroom door...

However, as I said before, I don't think that there was an attempt to stage the crime scene. If there was, then the perp certainly did a poor job.

 

[Spellbound]

If the scene was staged, I would not think the body would have been left in an unnatural position, either. I do 't believe it was saved .... at least not at this time. Not impossible, but too many other things don't make it appear staged for me.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If the scene was staged, then the perp did not know about her shower habits. This indicates that the perp did not live with her for an extended period of time - especially not in a house without a bathroom door...

However, as I said before, I don't think that there was an attempt to stage the crime scene. If there was, then the perp certainly did a poor job.

Maybe the perp thought he/she was being "clever" by making it look like Julia was going to take a bath, when, in fact, the perp knew that Julia usually took showers. :moo:

 

[FindHG]

Trojan1966, do you think it is possible that Julia may have confided in a person, a support group, a friend, therapy, or somehow given the impression to one of the members of Turnquist's household, that she was moving on and not playing along with whatever Turnquist may have been up to? Could any of her friends or confidantes outside the family have given LE information about this, as a result of the wide ranging interviews into her background that was done as well?

Did either of the girls have boyfriends, longish or serious relationships? Was Julia starting one by any chance or had somebody of interest that may have triggered a bad reaction in Turnquist if he had heard about it? Could he have been stalking her dorm with work in the area as a cover to check on her? I get this sense that Turnquist not only lost Julia in his household but as part of some scheme he had with her involved and that she may have wanted out? He may have simply been unwilling to see her in a intimate relationships with other male figures as a direct threat to him, it seems to me.

 

[rosesfromangels]

First of all, I hear you folks in Michigan are trying to act like us Californians. An earthquake today! Hope everyone is well, and not too shook up. We are pretty ho-hum about earthquakes out here unless it knocks the drink out of someone's hand. ; )

Once again this Saturday, I spent some time walking in the sunshine and today I focused my thoughts solely on Julia. There are two places I do my best thinking; one in a beautiful little park and the other is a 12 mile hike around a lake. Today I walked in the park and sat on a bench under a huge pine tree.

I sat and thought about all the details of this murder that are known, the gray areas of speculation & hypothesis, and the endless amounts of drama, attempted deflection, and what I now perceive to be lies by virtue of omission/ lack of complete disclosure.

Upon arriving back home, I have analyzed my theorem against Forager's exceptional map, and have come up with the following:

Hunting
We know Turnquist is an avid hunter. Forager has mapped the areas Turnquist frequented, and there are several locations that form a perimeter near EMU, as well as where Chelsea Bruck was murdered. While this in itself can not be interpreted as guilt, combining this fact with the following factors does raise additional suspicion:

*Turnquist had no steady form of employment. He seemed to dabble in the cleaning business, karate lessons to children, and selling apartment leftbehinds (and I wonder what else), on Craigslist. Turnquist wasn't anchored to any particular location or time, and would have had the opportunity to move about without detection, if he so chose.
*It's been said Turnquist had a volatile relationship with Julia, and this is why she moved to her Grandmothers.
*There have been allegations of past child abuse against both twins, and suggestions of impropriety, although unproven
*There have been allegations that Turnquist is bipolar, and goes off his medication making him unstable
*Turnquist demonstrated instability when his wife had to call 911, with the concern that Turnquist was homicidal/suicidal
*Turnquist has failed to satisfy LE's queries, and is a POI in his step daughter's murder
*Turnquist, despite his teary vow of "justice for Julia", has not provided LE with a *formal* statement, or submitted to a LE administered polygraph
*Turnquist has been arrested on charges of possession of child *advertiser censored*

Both Kim and Jennifer have stated that Turnquist was home the night Julia was murdered. Perhaps this is true, but *WHEN* did he get home, and from where? Forager's map shows us Turnquist goes to hunting areas that form almost a perfect circle around where Julia's murder took place, as well as Chelsea Bruck's. And, here is a guide to the various hunting seasons. There was plenty going on when both girls were murdered:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_14518-312005--,00.html

So here are the questions I am thinking about tonight:
1. What time did Turnquist get home the night Julia was murdered. Where had he been that day?
2. Where was Turnquist the early morning hours when Chelsea was murdered?
3. Did Chelsea have any contact with Turnquist? Did he frequent Olga's?
4. Does Turnquist have any connection whatsoever to Pickaxe Preacher, it's band members or fans?
5. Have Turnquist and his wife participated in any "special hobbies" together? If so, have their children had any exposure (even unintentional) to this?

Forager's map truly gives me the chills. You can see how Turnquist's hunting grounds circle these murder scenes, and how he moves freely throughout his days from one point to another undetected.

I *speculate* that Kim and Jennifer know all too well that Turnquist was in Julia's area when she was murdered. He probably *was* at home that night, but after Julia's murder took place. Given the profile that has been established, I suspect they got in to an argument, and he lost his temper.

I will continue to study Forager's map and see if I can provide any additional theories for us to pick apart.
I've really been trying to evaluate other possibilities, but everything....*everything* keeps pointing back to Turnquist.

Last question: *Did Julia every express concern about her youngest sister "M" and her stepfather?*

Edited to add: I really want to check this guy off the list and move on to establishing other suspects. However, I'm like the man who owns the P.I. firm that recently clawed back the reward. I simply can't move forward until JT clears himself. There is too much to be concerned about.

 

[FindHG]

First of all, I hear you folks in Michigan are trying to act like us Californians. An earthquake today! Hope everyone is well, and not too shook up. We are pretty ho-hum about earthquakes out here unless it knocks the drink out of someone's hand. ; )

Once again this Saturday, I spent some time walking in the sunshine and today I focused my thoughts solely on Julia. There are two places I do my best thinking; one in a beautiful little park and the other is a 12 mile hike around a lake. Today I walked in the park and sat on a bench under a huge pine tree.

I sat and thought about all the details of this murder that are known, the gray areas of speculation & hypothesis, and the endless amounts of drama, attempted deflection, and what I now perceive to be lies by virtue of omission/ lack of complete disclosure.

Upon arriving back home, I have analyzed my theorem against Forager's exceptional map, and have come up with the following:

Hunting
We know Turnquist is an avid hunter. Forager has mapped the areas Turnquist frequented, and there are several locations that form a perimeter near EMU, as well as where Chelsea Bruck was murdered. While this in itself can not be interpreted as guilt, combining this fact with the following factors does raise additional suspicion:

*Turnquist had no steady form of employment. He seemed to dabble in the cleaning business, karate lessons to children, and selling apartment leftbehinds (and I wonder what else), on Craigslist. Turnquist wasn't anchored to any particular location or time, and would have had the opportunity to move about without detection, if he so chose.
*It's been said Turnquist had a volatile relationship with Julia, and this is why she moved to her Grandmothers.
*There have been allegations of past child abuse against both twins, and suggestions of impropriety, although unproven
*There have been allegations that Turnquist is bipolar, and goes off his medication making him unstable
*Turnquist demonstrated instability when his wife had to call 911, with the concern that Turnquist was homicidal/suicidal
*Turnquist has failed to satisfy LE's queries, and is a POI in his step daughter's murder
*Turnquist, despite his teary vow of "justice for Julia", has not provided LE with a *formal* statement, or submitted to a LE administered polygraph
*Turnquist has been arrested on charges of possession of child *advertiser censored*

Both Kim and Jennifer have stated that Turnquist was home the night Julia was murdered. Perhaps this is true, but *WHEN* did he get home, and from where? Forager's map shows us Turnquist goes to hunting areas that form almost a perfect circle around where Julia's murder took place, as well as Chelsea Bruck's. And, here is a guide to the various hunting seasons. There was plenty going on when both girls were murdered:
http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,7-153-10363_14518-312005--,00.html

So here are the questions I am thinking about tonight:
1. What time did Turnquist get home the night Julia was murdered. Where had he been that day?
2. Where was Turnquist the early morning hours when Chelsea was murdered?
3. Did Chelsea have any contact with Turnquist? Did he frequent Olga's?
4. Does Turnquist have any connection whatsoever to Pickaxe Preacher, it's band members or fans?
5. Have Turnquist and his wife participated in any "special hobbies" together? If so, have their children had any exposure (even unintentional) to this?

Forager's map truly gives me the chills. You can see how Turnquist's hunting grounds circle these murder scenes, and how he moves freely throughout his days from one point to another undetected.

I *speculate* that Kim and Jennifer know all too well that Turnquist was in Julia's area when she was murdered. He probably *was* at home that night, but after Julia's murder took place. Given the profile that has been established, I suspect they got in to an argument, and he lost his temper.

I will continue to study Forager's map and see if I can provide any additional theories for us to pick apart.
I've really been trying to evaluate other possibilities, but everything....*everything* keeps pointing back to Turnquist.

Last question: *Did Julia every express concern about her youngest sister "M" and her stepfather?*

Excellent to follow and read and consider, you didn't just get sun roses, you're shedding light here, thank you!!!!

I can't wait to see the map you have pulled together with Forager, after the last touches are done. You're just so much awesome *~

 

[Spellbound]

Roses, the earthquake was apparently felt by some in my general area (it occurred aboit 90 miles west of us, I believe), but we did not know it had happened. We have now had a tornado, floods, and an earthquake. Life can be full of changes and drama here.


You have many good questions. What has really bothers me is the idea of having a curtain replace the bathroom door. If true, this is absurd. Sounds voyeuristic, at the very least. Trojan, had you heard this, also? Curtains keep no sounds of bathroom uses blocked out, and little bits that don't "seal" allow for peeks. How old were the girls when this occurred? We all deserve bathroom privacy. Why, why, why would this have been allowed? This has bothered me all day!

 

[rosesfromangels]

Trojan1966, do you think it is possible that Julia may have confided in a person, a support group, a friend, therapy, or somehow given the impression to one of the members of Turnquist's household, that she was moving on and not playing along with whatever Turnquist may have been up to? Could any of her friends or confidantes outside the family have given LE information about this, as a result of the wide ranging interviews into her background that was done as well?

Did either of the girls have boyfriends, longish or serious relationships? Was Julia starting one by any chance or had somebody of interest that may have triggered a bad reaction in Turnquist if he had heard about it? Could he have been stalking her dorm with work in the area as a cover to check on her? I get this sense that Turnquist not only lost Julia in his household but as part of some scheme he had with her involved and that she may have wanted out? He may have simply been unwilling to see her in a intimate relationships with other male figures as a direct threat to him, it seems to me.

When I look at these cases, I try to stay away from fantastic theories. Usual murders are about money, jealousy, or just depraved miscreants using and discarding people. However, in this case, I am straying from my general rule of thumb and *agree* there in some family secret or business involved here. And Kim and Jennifer know what that is.
Speculation and opinion only.

 

[FindHG]

Roses, the earthquake was apparently felt by some in my general area (it occurred aboit 90 miles west of us, I believe), but we did not know it had happened. We have now had a tornado, floods, and an earthquake. Life can be full of changes and drama here.


You have many good questions. What has really bothers me is the idea of having a curtain replace the bathroom door. If true, this is absurd. Sounds voyeuristic, at the very least. Trojan, had you heard this, also? Curtains keep no sounds of bathroom uses blocked out, and little bits that don't "seal" allow for peeks. How old were the girls when this occurred? We all deserve bathroom privacy. Why, why, why would this have been allowed? This has bothered me all day!

Removing a door to the most intimate private space of a persons existence in a household and look where she was found...

Where's the mystery now?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Roses, the earthquake was apparently felt by some in my general area (it occurred aboit 90 miles west of us, I believe), but we did not know it had happened. We have now had a tornado, floods, and an earthquake. Life can be full of changes and drama here.


You have many good questions. What has really bothers me is the idea of having a curtain replace the bathroom door. If true, this is absurd. Sounds voyeuristic, at the very least. Trojan, had you heard this, also? Curtains keep no sounds of bathroom uses blocked out, and little bits that don't "seal" allow for peeks. How old were the girls when this occurred? We all deserve bathroom privacy. Why, why, why would this have been allowed? This has bothered me all day!

It is a highly disturbing punishment regardless, but most especially since he was a stepfather to two prepubescent girls. It screams perversion. I have no TOS compliant words for his behavior, or explanation for the mother's complicit agreement.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Removing a door to the most intimate private space of a persons existence in a household and look where she was found...

Where's the mystery now?

Holy smokes, FindHG connecting the dots! What on earth is his hangup with bathrooms? Wonder what happened to him in bathrooms...
: \

 

[FindHG]

Holy smokes, FindHG connecting the dots! What on earth is his hangup with bathrooms? Wonder what happened to him in bathrooms...
: \

And why he likes to clean as a profession, seems to put him in some zone of sorts, if we're connecting the dots correctly, it may be possible. Yep, this sort of thing does not happen in a vacuum, just perhaps it takes vacuous people not to see it, at this point.

 

[Forager]

While trying to follow up on Roses' focus on JT's hunting and mobility, and on a lead from a post of Black_Squirrel's, I stumbled across this. It's an SM message that JT posted at 1:04 PM on 12/10/12, the day after Julia's murder. He posted it to the Michigan Sportsman Forums, a MichiganSportsman.com site.

http://www.michiganbear.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=445891

His message gives no indication of his location, or any details of the case, but it may give a clue as to his state of mind. In the 12/10/12 post he writes in strings of disjointed phrases with bad grammar and punctuation, as if he were distracted or intoxicated. Most of his posts are much better written and seem more lucid.

 

[Mountaingazer]

While trying to follow up on Roses' focus on JT's hunting and mobility, and on a lead from a post of Black_Squirrel's, I stumbled across this. It's an SM message that JT posted at 1:04 PM on 12/10/12, the day after Julia's murder. He posted it to the Michigan Sportsman Forums, a MichiganSportsman.com site.

http://www.michiganbear.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=445891

His message gives no indication of his location, or any details of the case, but it may give a clue as to his state of mind. In the 12/10/12 post he writes in strings of disjointed phrases with bad grammar and punctuation, as if he were distracted or intoxicated. Most of his posts are much better written and seem more lucid.

I can't get this link to work. Can anyone mobile use it or should I switch to a computer?