MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[FindHG]

Turnquist, being in a position of power and authority, as stepdad, not to mention out of line and possibly abusive, could never have a relationship with a child he raised that could be considered an affair, seems to me unequivocally. I would posit, speculate, conjecture, guess, think out loud or just consider, that Julia's life ended in this way because most people would agree on what constitutes child abuse, so the perp feared being revealed to say the least, but not enough not to cover all his tracks, even if Julia was older than child at the time she was murdered?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Agreed, personally, I believe an 'affair' between the two, or even the thought of it by JT, even at this age which is technically legal, is child abuse in my eyes. The parent/child relationship should never be manipulated into anything else. That's just twisted, but who ever caused Julia's murder may have been capable of thinking this would be alright. Someone once said, 'if you want to catch a killer, you gotta think like a killer'.

 

[Skigirl]

Agreed, personally, I believe an 'affair' between the two, or even the thought of it by JT, even at this age which is technically legal, is child abuse in my eyes. The parent/child relationship should never be manipulated into anything else. That's just twisted, but who ever caused Julia's murder may have been capable of thinking this would be alright. Someone once said, 'if you want to catch a killer, you gotta think like a killer'.

I have trouble believing that Julia would be even an unwilling participant in something like that once she hit her late teens.

I don't think romantic relationships between stepsiblings are quite the same as incest unless they were raised together as brother and sister from childhood, so I don't see his relationship with his step sister as setting a precedent for seeing as normal a relationship with a stepdaughter whom he helped raise from young childhood.

I don't know if he had anything to do with Julia's murder (in my mind, maybe), but I am having trouble buying that Julia and he had any sort of on-going sexual 'relationship'.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I have trouble believing that Julia would be even an unwilling participant in something like that once she hit her late teens.

I don't think romantic relationships between stepsiblings are quite the same as incest unless they were raised together as brother and sister from childhood, so I don't see his relationship with his step sister as setting a precedent for seeing as normal a relationship with a stepdaughter whom he helped raise from young childhood.

I don't know if he had anything to do with Julia's murder (in my mind, maybe), but I am having trouble buying that Julia and he had any sort of on-going sexual 'relationship'.

Based on what the 12 page affidavit says, I would think JT was partly raised with the step-sister since he was removed from his biological mother's custody and then raised by the father and step-mother. I'm assuming the step-mother who raised JT is the step-sister's mother. So, I'm seeing the new family unit as: JT's father, JT's step-mother, JT, JT's biological sister and a step-sister all living in the family home. That being said, I do not know for sure if the step-sister was raised in the same family home for a time with JT. That being said JT and the step-sister's relationship went from step-brother and step-sister, growing up together, to boyfriend and girlfriend for a time.

In regards to Julia, her instagram account shows her dating people unrelated and close to her own age, possibly from EMU.

 

[Trojan1966]

Sorry, this was in response to Mikaylasmom's entry:
I have a theory and I could be completely off base, but I've been wondering, could it be at all possible that Julia was having an affair with JT and he was in a jealous rage over her going out on a date with another man? Or could it be that she was going to tell her mom that they had been together? I'm so sorry if this offends, just something I've been thinking about.

I seriously doubt if Julia would have been having an affair with JT. I just never heard or saw anything that would support that idea.

 

[georgiasblu]

If we look beyond JT, I keep wondering about the custodial help or anyone from PP who had access to the office and master keys. That doesn't fit LE's theory that Julia's attacker knew her. Is there more to that theory than she let the perp into the apartment?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

If we look beyond JT, I keep wondering about the custodial help or anyone from PP who had access to the office and master keys. That doesn't fit LE's theory that Julia's attacker knew her. Is there more to that theory than she let the perp into the apartment?

I see four possible ways to access the apartment:

1. Someone being let in by Julia.
2. Someone following Julia in the main door, while she entered.
3. Someone with a key entering in the main door.
4. Someone entering in through a window, if possible.

I guess custodial help and anyone from PP with a master key could enter any apartment. I know it's been said LE checked out all apartment staff, but how well? I know it's been said there have been many interviews, search warrants and polygraphs administered early on.

 

[Skigirl]

If we look beyond JT, I keep wondering about the custodial help or anyone from PP who had access to the office and master keys. That doesn't fit LE's theory that Julia's attacker knew her. Is there more to that theory than she let the perp into the apartment?

If it was someone who worked in the building, she could have let them in to fix some made-up problem, so they wouldn't have needed a key (though the time of day would be unusual).

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Legally, with a lease agreement staff has to contact in advance. However, someone could say they made arrangements with a roommate. Or, received an emergency call about a leak in one of the bathrooms, it's possible. I would hope LE collected DNA samples from all of the apartment workers as well.

It could even have been a neighbor wanting to 'borrow a cup of sugar'. A neighbor was interviewed in the parking lot of the complex early on about his reaction to the murder and he said he knew Julia and roommates, attending a party at the apartment about a year pryor. It must have been with different roommates. I believe he was an EMU student as well, he said he and Julia always said 'Hi' to each other in passing and he considered her a friend.

 

[black_squirrel]

If we look beyond JT, I keep wondering about the custodial help or anyone from PP who had access to the office and master keys. That doesn't fit LE's theory that Julia's attacker knew her. Is there more to that theory than she let the perp into the apartment?

LE also believe that the gloves were put their to deceive them. A person unknown to the victim probably would not bother planting fake evidence.

 

[black_squirrel]

I think the items that were taken, and that weren't taken is telling.

A zebra striped pillow case was taken. IIRC there were two identical pillows. Only one pillow case was taken, and the pillow itself was left behind. The profiler suggest that this may be a "souvenir" that the perp has taken. But there may be even more to it. It was taken in such an obvious way. Everyone who walks into that room will immediately see that the pillow case is missing. It is like the perp really wanted LE to notice that (s)he had taken the pillow case.

The perp may also have taken the underwear. This could be also a "souvenir". But the murderer could also have known that serial rapist/murderers often take such items, and that the motive was not sexual perversion but something else entirely.

If JT was the murderer, like LE seems to think, that it would be strange for him to take "souvenirs",
because Julia's belongings would go to the Turnquist family anyway. Taken souvenirs would be an unnecessary risk.

The key might just have been taken for practical reasons, namely to lock the bedroom door on the way out. But as some have suggested, the murderer also may have wanted to come back.

Regarding the gloves, I am wondering how the blood got on it. From the description of the crime scene there was only a wound in the tongue. Could the gloves have been used to gag?

 

[georgiasblu]

I think the items that were taken, and that weren't taken is telling.

A zebra striped pillow case was taken. IIRC there were two identical pillows. Only one pillow case was taken, and the pillow itself was left behind. The profiler suggest that this may be a "souvenir" that the perp has taken. But there may be even more to it. It was taken in such an obvious way. Everyone who walks into that room will immediately see that the pillow case is missing. It is like the perp really wanted LE to notice that (s)he had taken the pillow case.

The perp may also have taken the underwear. This could be also a "souvenir". But the murderer could also have known that serial rapist/murderers often take such items, and that the motive was not sexual perversion but something else entirely.

If JT was the murderer, like LE seems to think, that it would be strange for him to take "souvenirs",
because Julia's belongings would go to the Turnquist family anyway. Taken souvenirs would be an unnecessary risk.

The key might just have been taken for practical reasons, namely to lock the bedroom door on the way out. But as some have suggested, the murderer also may have wanted to come back.

Regarding the gloves, I am wondering how the blood got on it. From the description of the crime scene there was only a wound in the tongue. Could the gloves have been used to gag?

I think the pillow case was possibly the gag.

 

[georgiasblu]

I think the items that were taken, and that weren't taken is telling.

A zebra striped pillow case was taken. IIRC there were two identical pillows. Only one pillow case was taken, and the pillow itself was left behind. The profiler suggest that this may be a "souvenir" that the perp has taken. But there may be even more to it. It was taken in such an obvious way. Everyone who walks into that room will immediately see that the pillow case is missing. It is like the perp really wanted LE to notice that (s)he had taken the pillow case.

The perp may also have taken the underwear. This could be also a "souvenir". But the murderer could also have known that serial rapist/murderers often take such items, and that the motive was not sexual perversion but something else entirely.

If JT was the murderer, like LE seems to think, that it would be strange for him to take "souvenirs",
because Julia's belongings would go to the Turnquist family anyway. Taken souvenirs would be an unnecessary risk.

The key might just have been taken for practical reasons, namely to lock the bedroom door on the way out. But as some have suggested, the murderer also may have wanted to come back.

Regarding the gloves, I am wondering how the blood got on it. From the description of the crime scene there was only a wound in the tongue. Could the gloves have been used to gag?

I don't think so. I think the point is that he wanted those missing objects all to himself, if they were taken as a souvenier. It wouldn't be enough that they were in the storage facility. I've also questioned if the pillowcase had killer's DNA.

 

[black_squirrel]

I think the pillow case was possibly the gag.

Yes, maybe you're right. I think the pillow could have been used to smother.
I found some info on homicidal smothering and forensic science:
http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/suffocation-smothering
(for some reason I couldn't copy and past, but go to the heading "homicidal smothering")

 

[georgiasblu]

Yes, maybe you're right. I think the pillow could have been used to smother.
I found some info on homicidal smothering and forensic science:
http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/suffocation-smothering
(for some reason I couldn't copy and past, but go to the heading "homicidal smothering")

Good find, BS. So tongue lacerations and the difficulty in proving homicidal smothering. 3 to 5 minutes is a long time.

 

[Spellbound]

Yes, maybe you're right. I think the pillow could have been used to smother.
I found some info on homicidal smothering and forensic science:
http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/suffocation-smothering
(for some reason I couldn't copy and past, but go to the heading "homicidal smothering")

That is an interesting article, Squirrel. Thanks. I will leave a few quotes from it: (you were right, can't copy/paste, so I will try to get it right). Bold or underlined by me:

Homicidal Smothering: Homicide is possible where the victim is incapacitated from drink or drugs, very weak, a child or old , in ill-health and when the victim is stunned by a blow. Usually, the mouth and nose is closed by a hand or cloth, or the face may be pressed into a pillow.

Autopsy: Obstruction by bed clothing, a pillow, a cushion., etc, applied with skill, may not leave any external signs of violence, especially in the young and the old, except signs of asphyxia.

Homicidal smothering is very difficult to detect. The autopsy may reveal asphyxia, but there may not be any corroborative medical evidence to prove foul play. The pathological changes must be interpreted keeping in view the medical history of the deceased, the scene of death, and the specific circumstances surrounding the death.

 

[Trojan1966]

I see four possible ways to access the apartment:

1. Someone being let in by Julia.
2. Someone following Julia in the main door, while she entered.
3. Someone with a key entering in the main door.
4. Someone entering in through a window, if possible.

I guess custodial help and anyone from PP with a master key could enter any apartment. I know it's been said LE checked out all apartment staff, but how well? I know it's been said there have been many interviews, search warrants and polygraphs administered early on.

The weather was typical winter weather, so the windows are normally closed in all the rooms. Were they all closed and locked??? I sure hope LE checked this out.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

LE also believe that the gloves were put their to deceive them. A person unknown to the victim probably would not bother planting fake evidence.

Quickly re-reading the affidavit, I now think it's possible the gloves are a red herring. Julia's blood was found inside the glove. If the glove was used by a pert., it would seem blood would be on the outside of the glove. But how did the pert., with planting the blood inside, get the blood from Julia's tongue to the inside of the glove. Could Julia's tongue have been cut after death, to provide the blood for the planted glove?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

The weather was typical winter weather, so the windows are normally closed in all the rooms. Were they all closed and locked??? I sure hope LE checked this out.

Yeah, I would think Michigan in December the windows would be closed. Was it said if there was snow on the ground yet? If so, if someone tried to enter through a window there would be foot prints. I would hope all windows would've been locked in a complex. If one wasn't locked, the screen would have to be removed to try and gain excess. Even if the a window wasn't locked it seems it would be difficult for someone from the outside to enter this way. They look like newer windows. I do think LE ruled out someone entering through a window, though they didn't go into detail about the windows.

 

[Skigirl]

Yeah, I would think Michigan in December the windows would be closed. Was it said if there was snow on the ground yet? If so, if someone tried to enter through a window there would be foot prints. I would hope all windows would've been locked in a complex. If one wasn't locked, the screen would have to be removed to try and gain excess. Even if the a window wasn't locked it seems it would be difficult for someone from the outside to enter this way. They look like newer windows. I do think LE ruled out someone entering through a window, though they didn't go into detail about the windows.

Snow on the ground yet? Ha ha hahahahahahah hah hah hah. It's Michigan. There may not have been snow on the ground that day, but you can bet there was no "yet' in December