MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[black_squirrel]

Here are Julia's last 2 instagram pictures:

https://instagram.com/p/TCknHyyYZW/?taken-by=julia_twin21989
https://instagram.com/p/TCkvlMSYZg/?taken-by=julia_twin21989

I believe both were taken on December 9, 2012. This is the day she was last seen alive.
(One of the picture was "day 9" of the December photo challenge)

The last picture was of the book "50 shades freed" which has a bondage theme to it
(note the handcuffs on the cover). Could there be a relation to her murder? There were signs
that Julie had her hands and feet tied around the time of the murder.

 

[FindHG]

Here are Julia's last 2 instagram pictures:

https://instagram.com/p/TCknHyyYZW/?taken-by=julia_twin21989
https://instagram.com/p/TCkvlMSYZg/?taken-by=julia_twin21989

I believe both were taken on December 9, 2012. This is the day she was last seen alive.
(One of the picture was "day 9" of the December photo challenge)

The last picture was of the book "50 shades freed" which has a bondage theme to it
(note the handcuffs on the cover). Could there be a relation to her murder? There were signs
that Julie had her hands and feet tied around the time of the murder.

Nope. A stretch, doesn't seem likely to me, more woohaa. A pop reference at the time, not exactly that title but a 'huge' amount of riffing on it going on around that time. If everybody who read the book were actually into bondage, if you get my general drift?

In Julia's case, I'd choose to focus on the "freed", but you have your own prerogative in how you choose to see the circumstances of Julia's murder. You've thought about it deeply to move things along.

Pardon my manners, good morning b_s

As far as I know, she was wanting to work to earn "extra" money to do more Christmas shopping.

Thank you, Trojan, again. Other than shopping and her visit with you during the holidays, was there something she may have been planning for, a trip, a big purchase for herself, her New Years Eves plans, for example?

 

[black_squirrel]

Nope. A stretch, doesn't seem likely to me, more woohaa. A pop reference at the time, not exactly that title but a 'huge' amount of riffing on it going on around that time. If everybody who read the book were actually into bondage, if you get my general drift?

Pardon my manners, good morning b_s

The book in the instagram picture is the 3rd volume in the "50 shades of grey" series. She also posted pictures of the first volume earlier. Most likely, she read the first 2 volumes and liked them. One can say that she is "into" the book,
but that does not mean that she is "into" bondage. The first volume sold more copies in the UK than the complete Harry Potter series (7 volumes) combined. Obviously not everyone who reads it is into bondage, although it may have inspired some couples who read it to try out some of the scenes in the book.

Anyway, I think it is possible that one of Julia's instagram followers might have gotten the wrong idea.

The connection between Julia's murder and bondage is somewhat implicitly suggested by police in the affidavit. IIRC, it was described that JT was exposed to *advertiser censored* as a child. It was explicitly stated that that included bondage. I think that the police may believe that the perp may have some interest in bondage. If that is the case, then I think Julia's post may be relevant.

I wonder how Julia could have been tied up, her clothes cut off, without injuring her. As far as I know, there were no wounds, cuts etc, except for some bruises above the elbow. I think it would be difficult to tie someone up, and cut of their clothes if they are physically resisting. But Julia may not have resisted because of several possible reasons.
She might have been unconscious at the time, she may not have resisted out of fear (for example because she was threatened by a weapon), or she may have consented (initially).

 

[FindHG]

Forgive me, but this seems past my point of comfort, in that it seems cruel and ill intended, b_s, given her family have exposure here?

Can you be a bit more precise about what you're getting at, I'm slightly confused?

 

[caspermi]

I believe that Julia's bedroom door also had a dead bolt type lock that needs a key from the outside to lock. I was only in her apartment a few times when me & my wife visited. At that time, Jennifer was still in college but she lived in a big dorm on campus.

Trojan, you mentioned that you live in Florida yet visited the apartment a few times. JT stated that he was only there once, to move her in, even though he lives less than an hour drive from the apartment. How long did JN live in the apartment? Didn't her family visit her? Or just JT didn't visit?

 

[black_squirrel]

Forgive me, but this seems past my point of comfort, in that it seems cruel and ill intended, b_s, given her family have exposure here?

Can you be a bit more precise about what you're getting at, I'm slightly confused?

My intentions are to find out WHO killed Julia Niswender! I have no cruel or ill intentions, and I apologize if anyone got that impression. I am not here to make value judgments on Julia, her family or anyone else.

To find out who did it, we have to look at it from various angles. The crime scene doesn't seem to make any sense to me. I'm struggling to find any narrative that would explain all the details that we know about the crime scene.

The evidence suggests that Julia's hands and feet were restrained, and that there was sexual activity. This suggest that the perpetrator is some person that is controlling and may be into bondage. Coincidentally, the last social media post of Julia was a picture of a book that has bondage in it. I am suggesting that there could be a relation, although I am not sure what that relation would be. I am certainly not suggesting that Julia did anything wrong, or is to blame for anything, because she posted something on instagram.

 

[FindHG]

<snipped & bolded for focus>

perpetrator is some person that is controlling and may be into bondage.
...
the last social media post of Julia was a picture of a book that has bondage in it.

The series was read by millions. The word Freed stands out to me and may have more to do with why Julia was found bound and murdered, I'll give you that, b_s, in your series of suppositions.

Why people choose the words they do to highlight are secrets of the mind that guessing at won't change the facts of the crime or that Turnquist isn't helping to move things along?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

The series was read by millions. The word Freed stands out to me and may have more to do with why Julia was found bound and murdered, I'll give you that, b_s, in your series of suppositions.

Why people choose the words they do to highlight are secrets of the mind that guessing at won't change the facts of the crime or that Turnquist isn't helping to move things along?


Have you read "Freedom on the Other Side of Midnight"?

Agreed, the series is read by millions. IMO...Julia may've had a violent internet stalker, viewing her every post, who is so twisted he or they were enticed by the post, among other things.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

My intentions are to find out WHO killed Julia Niswender! I have no cruel or ill intentions, and I apologize if anyone got that impression. I am not here to make value judgments on Julia, her family or anyone else.

To find out who did it, we have to look at it from various angles. The crime scene doesn't seem to make any sense to me. I'm struggling to find any narrative that would explain all the details that we know about the crime scene.

The evidence suggests that Julia's hands and feet were restrained, and that there was sexual activity. This suggest that the perpetrator is some person that is controlling and may be into bondage. Coincidentally, the last social media post of Julia was a picture of a book that has bondage in it. I am suggesting that there could be a relation, although I am not sure what that relation would be. I am certainly not suggesting that Julia did anything wrong, or is to blame for anything, because she posted something on instagram.

I agree with you that every angle should be analyzed. I don't think you were placing judgement, but rather being mindful there are many possibilities/factors regarding this awful crime. Tunnel vision could really hurt this case in the long run.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Don't forget that JT was allegedly upset that Julia was dating (or interested in) a man he didn't approve of; due to the color of his skin. Also possessiveness might have been at play IF Julia had indeed been sexually molested by JT as a girl.

The statement by her Mom that Julia was (paraphrasing) promiscuous really got my attention. Plausible deniability if you BLAME the victim for the abuse and not the perpetrator. (speculation; many families blame the victim and not the abuser in incest sexual abuse). Again; this would be pseudo-incest as there is no real blood relation. (though the difference is pretty mute as far as I'm concerned).

Let's step into her shoes for a minute and see if this washes =
Your daughter has been murdered by someone and the police are asking you for a statement. You don't make a formal statement but you volunteer that your daughter sleeps around (again paraphrasing) and her own twin states to the paper (perhaps unintentionally - in regards to sexual partners) in the plural? It really seems there was an effort to demonize or scapegoat Julia. Also stating she was a "party girl." Not very kind in light of her being deceased and unable to defend herself. smh. JT isn't the only one making odd statements about Julia IMHOO; as he was said to have "downed" her as well.

Rather than being ill-intended, was the family letting LE know there are many people they need to talk to/interview who could have had opportunity to be "alone" with Julia at any given time?

 

[FindHG]

My intentions are to find out WHO killed Julia Niswender! I have no cruel or ill intentions, and I apologize if anyone got that impression. I am not here to make value judgments on Julia, her family or anyone else.

To find out who did it, we have to look at it from various angles. The crime scene doesn't seem to make any sense to me. I'm struggling to find any narrative that would explain all the details that we know about the crime scene.

The evidence suggests that Julia's hands and feet were restrained, and that there was sexual activity. This suggest that the perpetrator is some person that is controlling and may be into bondage. Coincidentally, the last social media post of Julia was a picture of a book that has bondage in it. I am suggesting that there could be a relation, although I am not sure what that relation would be. I am certainly not suggesting that Julia did anything wrong, or is to blame for anything, because she posted something on instagram.

Had the crime occurred at some other time, it would have seemed like there was more of a chance the murderer was out to teach Julia a lesson and it may have gone wrong. There are too many aspects that give it such a strong whiff of premeditation, wouldn't you say, b_s?

I think it was planned to frame others so LE may have great alibis for all the others save Turnquist, leaving him a POI.

 

[black_squirrel]

Had the crime occurred at some other time, it would have seemed like there was more of a chance the murderer was out to teach Julia a lesson and it may have gone wrong. There are too many aspects that give it such a strong whiff of premeditation, wouldn't you say, b_s?

I think it was planned to frame others so LE may have great alibis for all the others save Turnquist, leaving him a POI.

If the murder was completely planned before the perp entered the apartment, then one thing does absolutely not make any sense: The presence of semen which seemed to have been abundant because there were 3 samples. In this case, I would have to believe that the semen was planted there as well. But then anyone could have done it.

Since Julia did not have a long-term committed relationship (at least as far as we know), I don't think she would have had unprotected sex, even if the partner had a vasectomy. So I'm inclined to believe that the sex was not consensual. But, given that the perp didn't choose to have protection, seems to indicate that the perp initially believed that he would get away with the sexual assault. As he realized that Julia was going to tell, he killed her, then tried to get rid of all evidence, including a failed attempt to wash evidence from the body. The perp may have left and come back to get the gloves and place it in the room. So in this case, the sexual assault may or may not have been pre-meditated, and the murder wasn't pre-meditated (in the sense that is was planned before the perp entered the apartment).

 

[psyquestor]

For anyone that was wondering; promiscuity is also a symptom of having been sexually abused at a young age. Again the theory being that it affects the developing brain and causes inappropriate arousal triggers. (for lack of a better term). [see last post for citation]. So stating that Julia was promiscuous would be a positive symptom of childhood sexual abuse. And yes, I still find it very odd that a parent or sibling or step parent would continually depict their deceased loved one in the ways they have been quoted as doing. The normal tendency would not lean in that direction IMHOO.

As far as the bondage scene played out goes, there have been several witnesses stating that JT has strange and / or kinky sexual habits, one of those being bondage. Circumstantially this also doesn't look good.

I'll restate that one of the bigger "red flags" for me is that JT stopped having sex with his wife for a period of years; causing her to seek sex outside the marriage. In my opinion only, he was getting his kicks from someone or something else. "Normal" just doesn't seem to do it for him; if his past is any indication. Historically he has a taste for the taboo or 'deviant' kinks (like incest, bondage, control to cite a few).

The last point is that JT did not check on Julia when she failed to show up to help him with his cleaning business. No call, text or driving over there. And not just that morning but for a few days after. One would think he would have expected a call, explaining why she didn't show up. (or had a conversation with the others regarding if they had heard from her, causing them to collectively wonder about her well being). But as far as we know he didn't.

 

[psyquestor]

Another possibility exists that Julia was a willing participant in BDSM type sex that went wrong - and lead to the killer having to shut her up out of fear she would report it as a rape. Many people have a safe word for this reason, because what starts out as good can end up very bad for the person who is restrained. The safe word allows them to end the 'scene' if this happens.

Could this explain why Julia was tied up but had no sign of defensive wounds? Could it be that she wasn't overcome quickly (as has been suggested) but rather she started out willingly being tied up; but for whatever reason; wound up dead before she thought to fight back?

*thoughts? This seems a viable theory - at least off the top of my head.

All MOO and etc.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

For anyone that was wondering; promiscuity is also a symptom of having been sexually abused at a young age. Again the theory being that it affects the developing brain and causes inappropriate arousal triggers. (for lack of a better term). [see last post for citation]. So stating that Julia was promiscuous would be a positive symptom of childhood sexual abuse. And yes, I still find it very odd that a parent or sibling or step parent would continually depict their deceased loved one in the ways they have been quoted as doing. The normal tendency would not lean in that direction IMHOO.

As far as the bondage scene played out goes, there have been several witnesses stating that JT has strange and / or kinky sexual habits, one of those being bondage. Circumstantially this also doesn't look good.

I'll restate that one of the bigger "red flags" for me is that JT stopped having sex with his wife for a period of years; causing her to seek sex outside the marriage. In my opinion only, he was getting his kicks from someone or something else. "Normal" just doesn't seem to do it for him; if his past is any indication. Historically he has a taste for the taboo or 'deviant' kinks (like incest, bondage, control to cite a few).

The last point is that JT did not check on Julia when she failed to show up to help him with his cleaning business. No call, text or driving over there. And not just that morning but for a few days after. One would think he would have expected a call, explaining why she didn't show up. (or had a conversation with the others regarding if they had heard from her, causing them to collectively wonder about her well being). But as far as we know he didn't.

I know in the affidavit KT and JT admitted to YPD about promiscuity, but there is little information, so far, to back up this statement. And even if this is/was the case I'm shocked parents would say anything like this about their daughter. We know Julia had a date Saturday night and there are a few pictures of her and an african american EMU student on her instagram. It appears Julia didn't have a steady, with no mention of her being 'in a relationship' on social media. It's been said JT didn't like Julia's interracial dating. But I wonder if KT and JT had a son, if they would view the same behavior as promiscuity, and be judgemental? Also, aside from some pictures of Julia and a roommate(s) attending EMU football games, most of her instagram photographs are of her and family in Monroe. From what I can see, Julia was going to school full-time, working Walmart and helping out in the family cleaning business for extra money. (not sure if full-time or part-time at Walmart). There doesn't seem to be a lot of extra time in her schedule for this 'party girl' lifestyle the mom and step-dad are admitting to.

All that being said, this is just my opinion of the information I've been able to collect from social media and the affidavit. I know people personally that are/have been into promiscuity and they are out at the club on nights and weekends looking for MR/Miss right for the night, not working and studying for exams.

 

[Skigirl]

The book in the instagram picture is the 3rd volume in the "50 shades of grey" series. She also posted pictures of the first volume earlier. Most likely, she read the first 2 volumes and liked them. One can say that she is "into" the book,
but that does not mean that she is "into" bondage. The first volume sold more copies in the UK than the complete Harry Potter series (7 volumes) combined. Obviously not everyone who reads it is into bondage, although it may have inspired some couples who read it to try out some of the scenes in the book.

Anyway, I think it is possible that one of Julia's instagram followers might have gotten the wrong idea.

The connection between Julia's murder and bondage is somewhat implicitly suggested by police in the affidavit. IIRC, it was described that JT was exposed to *advertiser censored* as a child. It was explicitly stated that that included bondage. I think that the police may believe that the perp may have some interest in bondage. If that is the case, then I think Julia's post may be relevant.

I wonder how Julia could have been tied up, her clothes cut off, without injuring her. As far as I know, there were no wounds, cuts etc, except for some bruises above the elbow. I think it would be difficult to tie someone up, and cut of their clothes if they are physically resisting. But Julia may not have resisted because of several possible reasons.
She might have been unconscious at the time, she may not have resisted out of fear (for example because she was threatened by a weapon), or she may have consented (initially).

If someone had me tied up and was cutting off my clothes with a knife, I cannot imagine I would struggle...


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[black_squirrel]

For anyone that was wondering; promiscuity is also a symptom of having been sexually abused at a young age. Again the theory being that it affects the developing brain and causes inappropriate arousal triggers. (for lack of a better term). [see last post for citation]. So stating that Julia was promiscuous would be a positive symptom of childhood sexual abuse. And yes, I still find it very odd that a parent or sibling or step parent would continually depict their deceased loved one in the ways they have been quoted as doing. The normal tendency would not lean in that direction IMHOO.

As far as the bondage scene played out goes, there have been several witnesses stating that JT has strange and / or kinky sexual habits, one of those being bondage. Circumstantially this also doesn't look good.

I'll restate that one of the bigger "red flags" for me is that JT stopped having sex with his wife for a period of years; causing her to seek sex outside the marriage. In my opinion only, he was getting his kicks from someone or something else. "Normal" just doesn't seem to do it for him; if his past is any indication. Historically he has a taste for the taboo or 'deviant' kinks (like incest, bondage, control to cite a few).

The last point is that JT did not check on Julia when she failed to show up to help him with his cleaning business. No call, text or driving over there. And not just that morning but for a few days after. One would think he would have expected a call, explaining why she didn't show up. (or had a conversation with the others regarding if they had heard from her, causing them to collectively wonder about her well being). But as far as we know he didn't.

Well I guess many things can be symptom of sexual abuse. Purely hypothetically speaking, could making false abuse accussations be a symptom of abuse? I don't think though that abuse in someone's past should be held against them. Most victims of abuse do not become perpetrators. And most perpetrators are not abuse victims.

http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf

I don't think I ever read of any witnesses stating that JT had any kinky habits, including bondage. Which witnesses were these?

Jennifer stated in an article that Julia was going to school, and to Walmart that morning (not to JT's work). Rose stated
that she was working with 6 am, and I believe Trojan believed that it was 10am. So I guess it is unclear if she ever was scheduled to work with JT that day. Since it was before finals, I would guess that she wasn't adding another job to her schedule just yet.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Promiscuity continued. IMO....Some people are more conservative than others, JT and KT are an old married couple so maybe they cannot relate to a young single daughter and dating. That being said, if they were so conservative, how did 300,000 or so *advertiser censored* images get on the family computer? And the child *advertiser censored* charges??? Agreed JT was found not guilty but that doesn't make him innocent. It seems to me in the parents eyes, there are different standards for different people.

 

[Skigirl]

Another possibility exists that Julia was a willing participant in BDSM type sex that went wrong - and lead to the killer having to shut her up out of fear she would report it as a rape. Many people have a safe word for this reason, because what starts out as good can end up very bad for the person who is restrained. The safe word allows them to end the 'scene' if this happens.

Could this explain why Julia was tied up but had no sign of defensive wounds? Could it be that she wasn't overcome quickly (as has been suggested) but rather she started out willingly being tied up; but for whatever reason; wound up dead before she thought to fight back?

*thoughts? This seems a viable theory - at least off the top of my head.

All MOO and etc.

Her attire that night makes that scenario pretty implausible to me. She told her sisters she would be studying and her clothing seems consistent with that to me. I don't know of many twenty-somethings who go to any trouble to hide casual relationships with the opposite sex from friends or siblings, so I wouldn't think she would tell her sisters that she was going to study if she had someone coming over -- she probably would have said she had plans to "hang out" with someone. MOO.


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[DazednConfuzed09]

I know in the affidavit KT and JT admitted to YPD about promiscuity, but there is little information, so far, to back up this statement. And even if this is/was the case I'm shocked parents would say anything like this about their daughter. We know Julia had a date Saturday night and there are a few pictures of her and an african american EMU student on her instagram. It appears Julia didn't have a steady, with no mention of her being 'in a relationship' on social media. It's been said JT didn't like Julia's interracial dating. But I wonder if KT and JT had a son, if they would view the same behavior as promiscuity, and be judgemental? Also, aside from some pictures of Julia and a roommate(s) attending EMU football games, most of her instagram photographs are of her and family in Monroe. From what I can see, Julia was going to school full-time, working Walmart and helping out in the family cleaning business for extra money. (not sure if full-time or part-time at Walmart). There doesn't seem to be a lot of extra time in her schedule for this 'party girl' lifestyle the mom and step-dad are admitting to.

All that being said, this is just my opinion of the information I've been able to collect from social media and the affidavit. I know people personally that are/have been into promiscuity and they are out at the club on nights and weekends looking for MR/Miss right for the night, not working and studying for exams.

Were we looking at the same Instagram account? The one I viewed had well over 30 photos with alcoholic beverages in them. There were some party photos posted as well. I definitely walked away with a much broader perspective than you did. I would definitely agree it appears she was a young girl living her life to the fullest.