MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Deleted member 132804]

Were we looking at the same Instagram account? The one I viewed had well over 30 photos with alcoholic beverages in them. There were some party photos posted as well. I definitely walked away with a much broader perspective than you did. I would definitely agree it appears she was a young girl living her life to the fullest.

Agreed, I did see a few photos of Julia and her roommates in the apartment with alcoholic beverages in hand. However, hanging out with roommates at the apartment having drinks doesn't seem to over the top to me. IMO...There is a difference between college students social drinking and 'party girl'. And I would expect EMU students to attend a party or 2, isn't that what college students do, a little at least? I wasn't trying to imply that Julia was a hermit or a nun, but for the parents to 'admit' in an interview with LE upon her being murdered, that she was a 'party girl' and of 'promiscuity' seems odd. The presumed night of the said event it was reported she was studying for finals in a t-shirt and yoga pants, not out clubbing. I'm just saying, she didn't seem to live the lifestyle I would expect to see or hear about to fit the 'labels' being reported. Yeah, she drink socially, mostly at home and she dated two guys that we know of.

 

[psyquestor]

b_s please feel free to disagree with anything or everything I post. I add citations when I have them and state opinions when I have those as well. It has been stated by a few people that they believed Julia was to work for JT to earn some extra cash. Just because some people disagree on the time she was supposed to be in a place, does not mean that she wasn't supposed to be there. I had a doctor's appointment the other day and I couldn't remember if it was at 8:45 but my husband thought it was at 10:00. Does this mean I didn't have an appointment at all?

IIRC I believe I read that JT's mother stated he had strange kinks (paraphrasing) and yes someone in that report mentioned bondage. However that's a minor detail at this point in the road. I'd say many people came away from reading that report the same way I did. If one of those people isn't you, that's okay with me. I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.

I don't have time to find the exact quote, but will be happy to when I find time.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Promiscuity continued. IMO....Some people are more conservative than others, JT and KT are an old married couple so maybe they cannot relate to a young single daughter and dating. That being said, if they were so conservative, how did 300,000 or so *advertiser censored* images get on the family computer? And the child *advertiser censored* charges??? Agreed JT was found not guilty but that doesn't make him innocent. It seems to me in the parents eyes, there are different standards for different people.

I think it was established a while ago that the 300,000 number reflected the number of total photos on the computer. There was a very small number of photos in question in comparison of over all photos.

 

[georgiasblu]

BS, page 7 of the warrant affidavit, towards the end of the first paragraph, JT's mother stated he had been exposed to *advertiser censored* and bondage at a young age.

I wonder how many of the *advertiser censored* photos included bondage?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I think it was established a while ago that the 300,000 number reflected the number of total photos on the computer. There was a very small number of photos in question in comparison of over all photos.

Agreed, 300,000 *advertiser censored* images, with 10-30 'in question' for child *advertiser censored*. I'm just saying, even IF all 'models' in the *advertiser censored* images are over 18 years of age, which is legal, this doesn't coincide with the conservative attitude Julia's parents envisioned for her. With JT home cruising *advertiser censored* sites on the family computer often and KT, feeling neglected by JT, carrying on an extra-marital affair.

With labels like 'party girl' and 'promiscuous' It seems to screen, look over there in that liberal, out of control YPSI for the killer.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I just came across this article today written 9/24/15. Interesting comment from the Police Chief considering the case against JT started with their search warrant. So it seems that JT is not the only person they are looking at....

"Ypsilanti Police Chief Tony DeGiusti said in an email that he would not address specifics of the investigation but wanted to dispel mistaken beliefs that the *advertiser censored* case was an Ypsilanti case and that Turnquist has been the only focus in the investigation."

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/slain_emu_students_family_disc.html

 

[Spellbound]

I just came across this article today written 9/24/15. Interesting comment from the Police Chief considering the case against JT started with their search warrant. So it seems that JT is not the only person they are looking at....

"Ypsilanti Police Chief Tony DeGiusti said in an email that he would not address specifics of the investigation but wanted to dispel mistaken beliefs that the *advertiser censored* case was an Ypsilanti case and that Turnquist has been the only focus in the investigation."

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/09/slain_emu_students_family_disc.html

The case that went to trial was completely separate from Julia's death. From the very beginning, Ypsilanti has said they wanted to talk to JT and get an official statement, as they believe he may have information that would be helpful in solving the case. At this point, that is a reason for him to be considered a POI -- Person of Interest. This was not a new statement .

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

The case that went to trial was completely separate from Julia's death. From the very beginning, Ypsilanti has said they wanted to talk to JT and get an official statement, as they believe he may have information that would be helpful in solving the case. At this point, that is a reason for him to be considered a POI -- Person of Interest. This was not a new statement .

I completely understand it was Ypsi's info and Monroe acted on it.
I find it interesting the chief felt the need to distance the agency from the notion that JT was the only POI in the case.

 

[Spellbound]

I completely understand it was Ypsi's info and Monroe acted on it.
I find it interesting the chief felt the need to distance the agency from the notion that JT was the only POI in the case.

Most likely, it was not to distance them, but to clarify since the "court of public opinion" seems to be focused only on JT. I am not meaning our forum, but the overall public. LE does not share all they know with us, so we have no clear idea if there are other POIs or how many. But our focus needs to go everywhere.

I would encourage JT and his family to speak with LE, answer whatever they want (officially, on the record) and then the focus could get off him if he has nothing helpful to add. JMO

 

[psyquestor]

Well I guess many things can be symptom of sexual abuse. Purely hypothetically speaking, could making false abuse accussations be a symptom of abuse? I don't think though that abuse in someone's past should be held against them. Most victims of abuse do not become perpetrators. And most perpetrators are not abuse victims.<RSBM> .

squirrel, I am not referring to abuse, I'm referring to incest running in families in the way I described in my post. Do I hold it against JT that he was allegedly sexually abused by family members? Nope, not at all. I do however see that he (on his own volition) entered into an incestuous relationship. His Grandfather, Mother, Father, Sister and himself are all alleged to have participated in various sexual acts with family members. I'd say that proves the quality of the theory I presented (which is that incest can run in families, based on the learning brain of a child becoming habituated to inappropriate sexual stimuli; not that all abusers become abusive).

Usually I don't argue points that I didn't make, but in this case I thought I'd explain my post with a little more clarity since it seems you missed the point completely. Also, as far as promiscuity being a symptom of childhood sexual abuse - of course it isn't the ONLY symptom and not all people who are, were abused. (I don't believe I said they were).

For focus here I said I find it ODD that Julia's family would continually portrait her as being promiscuous PARTICULARLY in light of their own sexual proclivities AND the fact that she is murdered. It seems to me (aka MOO) to be a form of scapegoating. (I've repeated this now three times; hopefully it's clear now (?).

As far as making accusations of abuse due to having been abused; whatever you're getting at is eluding me. If you have something to say, why not just say it? Because the way I'm reading that isn't making me too happy right now. Please, if we're going to get personal, at least buy me a cup of coffee first. ffs.

 

[Trojan1966]

Promiscuity continued. IMO....Some people are more conservative than others, JT and KT are an old married couple so maybe they cannot relate to a young single daughter and dating. That being said, if they were so conservative, how did 300,000 or so *advertiser censored* images get on the family computer? And the child *advertiser censored* charges??? Agreed JT was found not guilty but that doesn't make him innocent. It seems to me in the parents eyes, there are different standards for different people.

I am not sure where you get the 300,000 images of *advertiser censored* on the computer. I know they only used 30 images in court but I don't recall reading the number 300,000 *advertiser censored* images. I'm not sure if a number was cited in court.

 

[psyquestor]

Her attire that night makes that scenario pretty implausible to me. She told her sisters she would be studying and her clothing seems consistent with that to me. I don't know of many twenty-somethings who go to any trouble to hide casual relationships with the opposite sex from friends or siblings, so I wouldn't think she would tell her sisters that she was going to study if she had someone coming over -- she probably would have said she had plans to "hang out" with someone. MOO.


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Yoga pants are pretty normal clothing for young college aged women these days. fwiw. I see this "dressed down" attire all day at the University...it's the norm, not the exception. Young ladies like how it makes their figures look IMHOO.

So she could have been dressed for bed, or studying or company. Yoga pants fit all of those.

I didn't tell my family that I had a doctor's appointment the other day (which I wore yoga pants to btw) - does that mean I didn't have a doctor's appointment? (sorry to use the same example, but it fit here nicely).

 

[psyquestor]

I am not sure where you get the 300,000 images of *advertiser censored* on the computer. I know they only used 30 images in court but I don't recall reading the number 300,000 *advertiser censored* images. I'm not sure if a number was cited in court.

The 30,000 images was the sum total of the images found on the computer, not the amount that prosecution was alleging to be *advertiser censored* IIRC. It was in the earliest articles regarding the child *advertiser censored* case (which by now should be a mute point since he was found innocent) IMO.

 

[black_squirrel]

squirrel, I am not referring to abuse, I'm referring to incest running in families in the way I described in my post. Do I hold it against JT that he was allegedly sexually abused by family members? Nope, not at all. I do however see that he (on his own volition) entered into an incestuous relationship. His Grandfather, Mother, Father, Sister and himself are all alleged to have participated in various sexual acts with family members. I'd say that proves the quality of the theory I presented (which is that incest can run in families, based on the learning brain of a child becoming habituated to inappropriate sexual stimuli; not that all abusers become abusive).

Fair enough. What bothers me is though is that LE seems to hold being an abuse victim against JT. They are suggesting that this abuse is circumstantial evidence that he sexually molested Julia.

For focus here I said I find it ODD that Julia's family would continually portrait her as being promiscuous PARTICULARLY in light of their own sexual proclivities AND the fact that she is murdered. It seems to me (aka MOO) to be a form of scapegoating. (I've repeated this now three times; hopefully it's clear now (?).

IMO, they were just answering questions from detectives, which is what they were supposed to do. I don't think they were scapegoating, but you are entitled to your opinion of course.

As far as making accusations of abuse due to having been abused; whatever you're getting at is eluding me. If you have something to say, why not just say it? Because the way I'm reading that isn't making me too happy right now. Please, if we're going to get personal, at least buy me a cup of coffee first. ffs.

What I was getting at is certainly not what you think. This wasn't personally directed to you and that was why I wrote "purely hypothetical". However, I can see now why you may have taken it personally, and I shouldn't have made that comment/question. I apologize, and here is a cup of coffee:
:coffeecup:

 

[Skigirl]

Yoga pants are pretty normal clothing for young college aged women these days. fwiw. I see this "dressed down" attire all day at the University...it's the norm, not the exception. Young ladies like how it makes their figures look IMHOO.

So she could have been dressed for bed, or studying or company. Yoga pants fit all of those.

I didn't tell my family that I had a doctor's appointment the other day (which I wore yoga pants to btw) - does that mean I didn't have a doctor's appointment? (sorry to use the same example, but it fit here nicely).

I agree that people wear yoga pants to do all sorts of things beyond yoga and studying, but if, as some have suggested, she had her own secret Mr. Grey coming over to reenact some scenes from the Fifty Shades series, I believe her attire would have been QUITE different. Ditto for a secret romantic interest of the more vanilla variety.


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[FindHG]

Another possibility exists that Julia was a willing participant in BDSM type sex that went wrong - and lead to the killer having to shut her up out of fear she would report it as a rape. Many people have a safe word for this reason, because what starts out as good can end up very bad for the person who is restrained. The safe word allows them to end the 'scene' if this happens.

Could this explain why Julia was tied up but had no sign of defensive wounds? Could it be that she wasn't overcome quickly (as has been suggested) but rather she started out willingly being tied up; but for whatever reason; wound up dead before she thought to fight back?

*thoughts? This seems a viable theory - at least off the top of my head.

All MOO and etc.

psyquestor, thank you for your consideration, always so well thought out and with such great depth of understanding.

I don't see her setting up an elaborate bondage session in a pink t shirt, yoga pants and her college dorm. If she were into bondage there would have been more evidence of it in her room as well, as that was her private space. And there seems to have been none. She seems to have been trussed like a hunted trophy. I see very little chance that she was expecting this. She had a tight busy schedule and aspirations that don't seem to jive with the bondage mentality.

Her attire that night makes that scenario pretty implausible to me. She told her sisters she would be studying and her clothing seems consistent with that to me. I don't know of many twenty-somethings who go to any trouble to hide casual relationships with the opposite sex from friends or siblings, so I wouldn't think she would tell her sisters that she was going to study if she had someone coming over -- she probably would have said she had plans to "hang out" with someone. MOO.

Agreed, Skigirl

I completely understand it was Ypsi's info and Monroe acted on it.
I find it interesting the chief felt the need to distance the agency from the notion that JT was the only POI in the case.

Given the circumstances of the Julia's murder, the group of supporters around Turnquist, the way he ran to DO JO, I think there is a chance there is more than one POI, if he is responsible, he may have had help or others who are aware of his involvement. Something worth killing Julia for may involve more than one POI.

 

[georgiasblu]

psychquestor, thank you for your consideration, always so well thought out and depth of understanding.

I don't see her setting up an elaborate bondage session in a pink t shirt, yoga pants and her college dorm. If she were into bondage there would have been more evidence of it in her room as well, as that was her private space. And there seems to have been none. She seems to have been trussed like a hunted trophy. I see very little chance that she was expecting this. She had a tight busy schedule and aspirations that don't seem to jive with the bondage mentality.



Agreed, Skigirl

I'm with you both FHG and Skigirl. Julia seemed to enjoy dressing up and had she been entertaining I think her clothing would have shown that. While Julia might have known how to have college fun she was by all appearances a hard worker. I don't see her blowing off studying for finals.

 

[FindHG]

I'm with you both FHG and Skigirl. Julia seemed to enjoy dressing up and had she been entertaining I think her clothing would have shown that. While Julia might have known how to have college fun she was by all appearances a hard worker. I don't see her blowing off studying for finals.

Agreed. The details I keep coming back to are:

- that the very things she was tied with was taken away.
That's not just a hunter but a ritualistic one, it may be one with control fetishes who likes to repeat the act.

- the manner in which she was left.
She may have been tied up while she perished for it to be possible for her limbs to remain in that position, so the perp needed to leave her that way. His time, effort, will, he wanted her to be found that way.

- that it all ended in the bathroom in the tub
He took off the bathroom door and was sick of pulling dead bodies out of the water. Maybe he likes them not just young but dead?
Something he got into as his perversions progressed?

The sickest thing of all, to me, is that Turnquist has been barking up a storm and pursuing the details to come out. He may like that every body knows what happened to Julia exactly. This part of it may be part of the thrill for him. Hunters like to display their trophies, certainly, Turnquist displays this huge trophy head in a tini living room. From the start, his line about Julia getting around seems like it may have been the rationale he was setting up for himself with others, like a

'see what happens when you don't listen to daddy?'

He is ready to move on, by his own words at that gaggle. Not one word about who did this or what was done to Julia, the information that floors normal people seems to have not been worth comment. Wouldn't a normal man be enraged or at least seem set back by the details they learned in court? Not Turnquist, it's all about him, 'Mr. I don't show outward emotion when it suits me.'

Now, look for the upcoming interview with MSM his lawyer will setup to dispel the impression. Good luck, Mr. S. This is a man who is potentially willing to kill his own, so will stop at nothing, if he did this. He's not that swift at all, just seems very committed to himself and the adept at manipulation. The more we've seen of him the more implicit he seems, not the other way around. That may have come to their notice as well.

Why wouldn't he want to clear his name with LE?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Agreed, 300,000 *advertiser censored* images, with 10-30 'in question' for child *advertiser censored*. I'm just saying, even IF all 'models' in the *advertiser censored* images are over 18 years of age, which is legal, this doesn't coincide with the conservative attitude Julia's parents envisioned for her. With JT home cruising *advertiser censored* sites on the family computer often and KT, feeling neglected by JT, carrying on an extra-marital affair.

With labels like 'party girl' and 'promiscuous' It seems to scream, look over there in liberal, out of control YPSI for the killer.

Thank You and Apologies to ALL....from this article I got the impression of the number 300,000, which I believe was said later to be overstated. Later it was reported as 30,000 total images on the computer with 30 being questioned in the child *advertiser censored* case, which JT was found not guilty.

In keeping with Justice of Julia, I do hope JT will fully cooperate with LE with a formal statement of his whereabouts in the days leading up to Julia's murder.

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/03/shes_spitting_lies_says_julia.html

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I do wonder if JT had a key to the main door of Julia's apartment when he was moving stuff into the apartment. Also, did JT have help from other people moving in the bed frame, box springs, mattress, and dressers in? These seem like large and heavy items for one person to carry. Could JT or someone else have made a copy of the key to the apartment at the local hardware store? Was Julia the only signer on the apartment lease (aside from the other roommates) or did parents need to co-sign as well?