MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Trojan1966]

FYI - In researching JT's attorney Paul Stablein, I found some interesting facts:

1. Rates are $301-400 an hour. Simple math: 50 hours of his (and/or law firms) time at $400.00 per hour = $20,000.00.

2. He's been the attorney for many high profile cases in Michigan such as: People v. Paul Jones: Cold case first degree murder charge, United States v. Sheri Rosenbaum: Mortgage fraud trial in U.S. District Court (Eastern District of Michigan), 2014, United States v. Bobby Ferguson: Federal corruption trial, U.S. District Court; hung jury and then dismissed, 2013.

IMO...he's the guy you hire to get/keep you out of jail, and he's your best bet in Michigan for a not guilty verdict when you're up a creek, without a paddle. He is NOT the attorney one might hire to help with a formal statement in the murder trial of a child you know nothing about.

I agree with you. He lost that cold case trial (murder of Shannon Siders) involving Matthew and Paul Jones. His client was Paul Jones and he was found guilty of second degree murder and sentenced to 30-70 years in prison.

http://fox17online.com/2015/07/21/brothers-set-to-be-sentenced-for-1989-newaygo-murder/

 

[ModMaiden]

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding this. Sources - Kim's statement and Search Warrant

Kim and Jen ran into the apartment, but an officer came out of Julia's bedroom and blocked the doorway.

Is there another doorway between the bedroom and front door? Maybe this is where my disconnect is.

Shocked, hurt and angry, Kim stormed around the apartment and begin to cry and scream.

"I punched the refrigerator," Kim said. "I was screaming. I thought it was a bad dream. She had decorated for the holidays and had snowflakes all over. I went into this rage and ripped them off. Jim showed up and he came in the apartment and kind of just looked at me and that’s when he knew."

Yet the search warrant states they were prohibited to enter the apartment and were sent to the Ypsilanti Police Department where her and Jim sat waiting in the lobby for the detectives. Kim's reaction might make more sense if LE said Julia's bedroom inside the apartment but they didn't. It seems all the rooms within that apartment would be considered part of the crime scene and I can't see them allowing people to be storming among evidence.

Below is Section J from the Search Warrant: names replaced with initials.

J. Family members began showing up on scene but were prohibited from entering Julia's apartment. Julia's mother, KT and Julia's step-father, JT, responded to the Ypsilanti Police Department from Julia's apartment and sat in the lobby waiting to speak with Detectives. While waiting in the lobby of the police department it was apparent to Affiant that KT was visibly affected by the news of her daughter's death. KT was pacing back and forth, unable to hold still, was anxious, emotional, demanding to know what happened to her daughter Julia and still appeared to be in shock. JT sat calmly in the lobby chair and appeared to be unemotional and composed.

So when exactly did Kim get into the apartment and react in this fashion when LE prohibited entry? It's interesting the Affiant makes observation notations of Kim at the police station but no mention about her reaction at the scene. Why no mention of this behavior?

So how could Jim possibly know Julia was dead by one look at Kim while inside the apartment that LE said they were not allowed to enter?

Something isn't adding up here...Black_squirrel, help me here. What are your thoughts? Anyone....what am I missing here? From what I know of how LE works, the statement in the article makes no sense at all. If there is another doorway I'm not aware of? Still the question lingers if LE would consider all rooms part of the crime scene, why would they allow someone to be destructive without making notes about needing to escort the mom out to prevent contamination?

What detail is escaping me that would balance out what KT said and LE said?

Just my thoughts and opinions based upon research of facts stated and linked in this post.

 

[ModMaiden]

FYI - In researching JT's attorney Paul Stablein, I found some interesting facts:

1. Rates are $301-400 an hour. Simple math: 50 hours of his (and/or law firms) time at $400.00 per hour = $20,000.00.

2. He's been the attorney for many high profile cases in Michigan such as: People v. Paul Jones: Cold case first degree murder charge, United States v. Sheri Rosenbaum: Mortgage fraud trial in U.S. District Court (Eastern District of Michigan), 2014, United States v. Bobby Ferguson: Federal corruption trial, U.S. District Court; hung jury and then dismissed, 2013.

IMO...he's the guy you hire to get/keep you out of jail, and he's your best bet in Michigan for a not guilty verdict when you're up a creek, without a paddle. He is NOT the attorney one might hire to help with a formal statement in the murder trial of a child you know nothing about.

I agree with you and after reading his services and prices I found two categories that JT fit in: White Collar Crime and Violent Crimes/Domestic Violence

Source

The white collar crime description is interesting:

If you are under investigation or are charged with a white collar crime it is usually in your best interest to secure legal council early in the process. Early intervention is important as federal and state authorities spend a considerable amount of time investigating a case before charges are filed. Often, the individual under investigation is aware of the on-going and pending investigation. White collar crimes may include embezzlement, internet crimes, mortgage fraud, real estate fraud, identity theft, tax fraud, conspiracy, and other crimes.

I'm guessing JT fell into the Internet Crimes section but just look at the advice the attorney gives.

He accepts payment forms in: Cash, Check and Credit card.

I bet he came with a steep price so how did they pay for him? Unless he's a really nice attorney who won't charge you if you win, what does he charge per case? Flat rates for all or deal making fees per client and charges? Is he still the attorney since LE has not cleared JT?

One last interesting tidbit: The last person to comment about Mr. Stabien was Oct. 2013 then on June 23, 2015 came this: definition of professional attorney

Having experienced an unexpected, traumatic legal matter was devastating. However, I felt a sort of "peace" in having Mr. Stablein handle my case, and ultimately my future, and it was confirmed by receiving the best possible outcome. Mr. Stablein was my advocate throughout a difficult and lengthy legal battle. He was respectful, patient, and a thorough representative for me. I hope that each client he represents has the blessing and pleasure of learning and reaping the favorable benefits of Mr. Stablein’s unparalleled work ethic and perseverance.

Sure has a certain smell about this...good to know they found "peace".

 

[ModMaiden]

Does anyone recall what time the EMT phoned KT while she was headed to Julia's apartment? Been looking for the time on this call and I believe the EMT only called once to ask about medical conditions.

 

[ModMaiden]

Kim and Jen ran into the apartment, but an officer came out of Julia's bedroom and blocked the doorway.

Is there another doorway between the bedroom and front door? Maybe this is where my disconnect is.

Ah, nothing like <snipping> your own posts but I think I misread what the Search Warrant said. Maybe it means he came out of the bedroom and blocked the bedroom doorway.

But all other concerns still stand. Why would LE allow her to be destructive at the crime scene when they were present and investigating a homicide but make absolutely no record of this behavior?

 

[Spellbound]

Seems to me the whole apartment should have been kept free of everyone, but definitely no one would have been allowed in the bedroom/bathroom. As for Kim saying she hit the fridge, tore down Christmas decorations... I would think that wild have appeared in the parts of the warrant we saw since her demeanor at the station was given. Good questions, Moddy.

The apartments are set up with a main door, then individual doors into each apartment, which lead to doors on each bedroom. At least that is how I interpreted the floor plans I have seen.

 

[Skigirl]

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding this. Sources - Kim's statement and Search Warrant



Is there another doorway between the bedroom and front door? Maybe this is where my disconnect is.



Yet the search warrant states they were prohibited to enter the apartment and were sent to the Ypsilanti Police Department where her and Jim sat waiting in the lobby for the detectives. Kim's reaction might make more sense if LE said Julia's bedroom inside the apartment but they didn't. It seems all the rooms within that apartment would be considered part of the crime scene and I can't see them allowing people to be storming among evidence.

Below is Section J from the Search Warrant: names replaced with initials.


So when exactly did Kim get into the apartment and react in this fashion when LE prohibited entry? It's interesting the Affiant makes observation notations of Kim at the police station but no mention about her reaction at the scene. Why no mention of this behavior?

So how could Jim possibly know Julia was dead by one look at Kim while inside the apartment that LE said they were not allowed to enter?

Something isn't adding up here...Black_squirrel, help me here. What are your thoughts? Anyone....what am I missing here? From what I know of how LE works, the statement in the article makes no sense at all. If there is another doorway I'm not aware of? Still the question lingers if LE would consider all rooms part of the crime scene, why would they allow someone to be destructive without making notes about needing to escort the mom out to prevent contamination?

What detail is escaping me that would balance out what KT said and LE said?

Just my thoughts and opinions based upon research of facts stated and linked in this post.

The search warrant affidavit is poorly written in that section, but from what I have gathered by piecing together various sources is that the family did get into the apartment when they arrived. They saw an ambulance in the parking lot and rushed to the apartment, getting as far as the living room, but not actually gaining entry to her bedroom before they were subdued and sent to the lobby.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Spellbound]

Makes one wonder how long any family members were in the living room area before being ushered out. Maybe just poor police practice?

 

[ModMaiden]

Thank you for the replies, probably was just a poorly written document misread and has zero bearing on the case.

 

[black_squirrel]

Thank you for the replies, probably was just a poorly written document misread and has zero bearing on the case.

The detective who wrote the affidavit (Coppock) was not at the crime scene as far as I can tell. This is probably why she reported on the behavior of the Turnquists at the police station and not on their behavior near the crime scene. The affidavit has several mistakes that we know of. So the description of the arrival of the family members at the apartment may not be completely accurate, especially because it is not a first-hand account.

There is no description of any evidence collected at the living room. It seems that the bedroom and bathroom were considered crime scenes, but not so much the living room. I think that the roommates weren't forced out of the apartment because it was a crime scene.

 

[Spellbound]

Squirrel, your reply makes good points. The detective did come on the case later. I hadn't considered that. Thanks for your input. I did wonder about the roommates .... were they inside? Surely they needed to get some personal and school items. How long before they made everyone leave?

Thanks again, Squirrel. I am always impressed by your ability to separate emotions and facts.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding this. Sources - Kim's statement and Search Warrant



Is there another doorway between the bedroom and front door? Maybe this is where my disconnect is.



Yet the search warrant states they were prohibited to enter the apartment and were sent to the Ypsilanti Police Department where her and Jim sat waiting in the lobby for the detectives. Kim's reaction might make more sense if LE said Julia's bedroom inside the apartment but they didn't. It seems all the rooms within that apartment would be considered part of the crime scene and I can't see them allowing people to be storming among evidence.

Below is Section J from the Search Warrant: names replaced with initials.


So when exactly did Kim get into the apartment and react in this fashion when LE prohibited entry? It's interesting the Affiant makes observation notations of Kim at the police station but no mention about her reaction at the scene. Why no mention of this behavior?

So how could Jim possibly know Julia was dead by one look at Kim while inside the apartment that LE said they were not allowed to enter?

Something isn't adding up here...Black_squirrel, help me here. What are your thoughts? Anyone....what am I missing here? From what I know of how LE works, the statement in the article makes no sense at all. If there is another doorway I'm not aware of? Still the question lingers if LE would consider all rooms part of the crime scene, why would they allow someone to be destructive without making notes about needing to escort the mom out to prevent contamination?

What detail is escaping me that would balance out what KT said and LE said?

Just my thoughts and opinions based upon research of facts stated and linked in this post.

My take on family entering the apartment IMO is, they first were allowed to enter, then ushered out and forced to sit in the lobby. Pure speculation, upon first finding Julia YPD didn't know they had a possible homicide on their hands. They notified the family early, to report the death, which is customary.

In regards to the family showing up at Julia's apartment, KT reacted like a caring, concerned and shocked parent would in keeping with such tragic news. KT and JN (twin) trying to storm the bedroom/bath area and being stopped by YPD seems in keeping with as well.

As for KT looking at JT and that's how he knew, IDK what to think. I would guess if someone was called to a adult child's apartment who was reported missing by roommates and LE and an ambulance were at the scene, a person would know something very tragic was happening. Someone was injured in someway or having a medical problem, at the very least. But how JT could know it was Julia's death by just looking at KT, in her distraught state, again IDK. How could you just know it was death? LE and an ambulance will show up if a person is: unconscious, beaten, raped or out of their mind. Now, this is KT's statement, not JT's so without hearing from JT, I find it difficult to know for sure if JT agrees with KT's statement.

 

[Trojan1966]

I'm having a bit of a problem understanding this. Sources - Kim's statement and Search Warrant



Is there another doorway between the bedroom and front door? Maybe this is where my disconnect is.



Yet the search warrant states they were prohibited to enter the apartment and were sent to the Ypsilanti Police Department where her and Jim sat waiting in the lobby for the detectives. Kim's reaction might make more sense if LE said Julia's bedroom inside the apartment but they didn't. It seems all the rooms within that apartment would be considered part of the crime scene and I can't see them allowing people to be storming among evidence.

Below is Section J from the Search Warrant: names replaced with initials.


So when exactly did Kim get into the apartment and react in this fashion when LE prohibited entry? It's interesting the Affiant makes observation notations of Kim at the police station but no mention about her reaction at the scene. Why no mention of this behavior?

So how could Jim possibly know Julia was dead by one look at Kim while inside the apartment that LE said they were not allowed to enter?

Something isn't adding up here...Black_squirrel, help me here. What are your thoughts? Anyone....what am I missing here? From what I know of how LE works, the statement in the article makes no sense at all. If there is another doorway I'm not aware of? Still the question lingers if LE would consider all rooms part of the crime scene, why would they allow someone to be destructive without making notes about needing to escort the mom out to prevent contamination?

What detail is escaping me that would balance out what KT said and LE said?

Just my thoughts and opinions based upon research of facts stated and linked in this post.

There was a floor plan posted on this site a while back. The website for Peninsular Place will show various floor plans. Basically there is one front door then a short hallway to a common living room and kitchen area. Each bedroom then has their own door which can be locked. So, there is only one entrance door to the apartment itself. It sounds confusing but really it's not. Here's a link:
http://ypsistudenthousing.com/floorplans
Julia's unit was the three bedroom/ three bathroom deluxe and she had a bathroom within her area. (Deluxe Bedroom)
Upon KT & JT arriving at the scene, they did enter the apartment but were initially confined to the common living room and were not allowed into Julia's bedroom. Soon they were escorted out of the apartment and waited outside. KT actually tried to peek through a window to see if she could see anything but LE eventually covered the window better to block any outside vision.
Eventually, JT & KT were asked to go to the police department ( I think JN and MT were with them) where they were observed in the lobby prior to talking to LE. It is my understanding that there were other people at the police department at the same time. Basically LE was talking to many people, especially the room mates and friends that were at the scene.all the people.
I hope this helps a bit.

 

[Elisaa444]

Squirrel, your reply makes good points. The detective did come on the case later. I hadn't considered that. Thanks for your input. I did wonder about the roommates .... were they inside? Surely they needed to get some personal and school items. How long before they made everyone leave?

Thanks again, Squirrel. I am always impressed by your ability to separate emotions and facts.

BBM

I'm also impressed by this Squirrel! Though I'm a lurker I have been following Julia's case for some time. Just recently I re-read many of Squirrel's recent posts on this thread as it made me re-think some of my own opinions, thoughts and theories on this case. The way I see things in this case and the thoughts I have on certain things are often challenged by Squirrel which I enjoy.

Squirrel, I've learned quite a bit from you on this thread. You've made me more opened minded when considering certain aspects of this case. Thank you for contribution here. It is appreciated.

I'm always praying and hoping for the wheels of justice to start turning for Julia.

(After I read the documents re: the case (search warrant etc) one particular detail - where it states that JT took the girls bathroom door off which meant they had no privacy when they were 12 years old and at this time - JT was taking care of them because their mother was working in another town. IIRC, this info came from a family member (iirc, Grandmother Rose). I apologize with the "IIRC." I'm having computer issues and can't open more than one tab. Though I will keep working on it and I'll link exactly where I read the above because I want to make sure I have written it correctly.

Even though KT was in another town working and JT at this time was primarily taking care of the girls, I'm guessing KT was in contact with the girls to check on them /see them at times. I didn't see any details of this setup as far as how long she was gone and if and when did she come home to visit. My point is - I can't imagine she didn't know that JT took that bathroom door down. As a mother myself (even though my little one is just a toddler) I can't imagine my husband, my child's stepfather, taking her bathroom door down at age 12 or any other age. Combine this particular incident with several other things that I consider to be red flags of some sort - It is just really strange to me that KT over the years didn't suspect something (not noting anything in particular) but something just doesn't seem right.

Obviously, I know people are all different and we all react to things differently and we all handle things very differently...understood. Though again, as a mother, if the same thing happened to my daughter, as to what happened to Julia, you best believe my husband better be ready from day one to work with the police and do everything possible and then some to help solve my daughter's case, to put the cold blooded killer who took my baby girl from me... away for good....so this evil person can't kill another soul, to help me fight for justice for "our" daughter. Since JT loves his wife which is the mother of Julia and he loved Julia as a daughter ....I cannot fathom for a millisecond why in the world he wouldn't do all he could to assist with the investigation. As a loving step-father you'd think you would have trouble sleeping until Julia's killer was caught and Justice was handed down.

I seriously don't get it. I am of the opinion that if one is truly innocent of a crime then that person should have zero problem cooperating with the very people, (LE), who are working to solve a murder case...the murder of your dear step daughter. Yes, I think it is good to have an attorney even if you're innocent especially when it is such a serious crime. I have no problem with anyone having an attorney. In fact, I think it is a very smart thing to do. But if you are innocent and you have an attorney then I see zero valid reasons on why one wouldn't cooperate to the fullest. Why would an innocent person stall the investigation? Most know LE looks at those closest to the victim first. IMO, JT's lack of cooperation is very, very hinky to me.

More than that...I don't get KT as a mother. I just can't imagine going on with life with my husband, the step father to my murdered child, who is not cooperating with law enforcement ....more and more time is going by and the investigation is not leading to any suspects (at least to my knowledge)....and I'm just ok with this...

I pray for justice for Julia. She more than deserves that. When I think about her murder...while she was in her own apartment ....where we all are supposed to feel safe, be safe...I instantly recall the last photos on her social media before her death...and it angers me to no end...that some cold blooded, calculating, evil, killer took it upon himself to take her life .....

and the one person I would expect to be pounding the pavement (so to speak) for justice .....would be her Mother.

I will continue to pray and pray and pray for Justice to take place.

Rest in Peace Precious Julia :rose:

(Sorry for the extra long post...clearly I should have come out from lurking long before )

 

[Spellbound]

Thank you, Elissa. You wrote a good post. I am glad you came out of lurking.

 

[Trojan1966]

Well folks, it's been almost three years since Julia's murder..... You would think her mother would be demanding answers and cooperating 100% with LE. Unfortunately that is not true. Julia's mother and step father have remained mute on the subject for the last year or two. Why would the step father hire a very "expensive" criminal defense lawyer just over 3 months after Julia's murder? Another interesting point is that since KT & JT didn't really have the finances, why not hire a more local lawyer especially if you are innocent of everything? The child *advertiser censored* trial is now over, so why hasn't JT done anything to try to remove himself as the POI in this case? I have never found a case where the child was murdered and the parents were so uncooperative to LE. Their lack of cooperation merely makes the investigation harder but I have faith that this murder will be solved. I have no mercy for anyone who has been a part to any stalling in this case and I hope and pray that if they were involved in knowing something about what exactly happened; then they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. When I say I want "Justice for Julia", I mean that I will do anything and everything I can to help solve this murder of my granddaughter. Tragically, she was taken from us too early in her life and really didn't have a chance to truly live and experience life. I pray each and every night that there will be a clue or information found that will lead to solving this terrible crime. Julia may be in Heaven, but she will always be in my heart - and no one can change that. Justice for Julia ! ! !

 

[Elisaa444]

Well folks, it's been almost three years since Julia's murder..... You would think her mother would be demanding answers and cooperating 100% with LE. Unfortunately that is not true. Julia's mother and step father have remained mute on the subject for the last year or two. Why would the step father hire a very "expensive" criminal defense lawyer just over 3 months after Julia's murder? Another interesting point is that since KT & JT didn't really have the finances, why not hire a more local lawyer especially if you are innocent of everything? The child *advertiser censored* trial is now over, so why hasn't JT done anything to try to remove himself as the POI in this case? I have never found a case where the child was murdered and the parents were so uncooperative to LE. Their lack of cooperation merely makes the investigation harder but I have faith that this murder will be solved. I have no mercy for anyone who has been a part to any stalling in this case and I hope and pray that if they were involved in knowing something about what exactly happened; then they should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. When I say I want "Justice for Julia", I mean that I will do anything and everything I can to help solve this murder of my granddaughter. Tragically, she was taken from us too early in her life and really didn't have a chance to truly live and experience life. I pray each and every night that there will be a clue or information found that will lead to solving this terrible crime. Julia may be in Heaven, but she will always be in my heart - and no one can change that. Justice for Julia ! ! !

BBM

My thoughts and prayers are with you Trojan1966. Please accept my sincerest condolences for the loss of your granddaughter, Julia. I can't imagine the heartbreak and the tremendous loss you have been feeling. You're a dedicated, loving grandfather. I'm very glad you're here. It makes me feel good to see someone from Julia's family -wanting answers and justice. I appreciate that you're here very much.

I too have faith that Julia's case will be solved. Julia will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers as will you.

Rest in Peace, Julia :rose: :rose:

 

[black_squirrel]

My thoughts are with Julia's family and friends as we are nearing the 3rd anniversary of her murder.

I have faith that her murder will be solved eventually. Unfortunately, I do not have a lot of faith that the detectives
who are working on it now will solve it. Basically, they admitted more than a year ago that they ran out of leads.
IMO, this case needs some fresh eyes looking at it. Also I think investigators should focus on the physical evidence,
even though they do not seem to have much of it. If they ever find out who the finger prints on the gloves belong to,
it will solve the case.

It would not be wise for the police to be stalling because JT is not making a formal statement. If he is involved
he won't incriminate himself. If he isn't involved then he wouldn't really have any useful information beyond what
he has already told LE.

I think it is a misconception that only guilty people need lawyers, or that only guilty people need good lawywers.
I watched forensic files a couple days ago on the case of Ray Krone, who was on death row and wrongly accused. In fact,
he had been convicted twice for a murder that he did not commit. The conviction was based on having the same blood
as the perpetrator, knowing the victim, and having a "snaggletooth" like the perp. I am not sure how good his lawywer was,
but a better lawyer probably could have saved him from death row. The defense lawyer didn't have time to properly review the expert witness statements (which turned out to be completely misleading).

 

[black_squirrel]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor...ators_family_still_see.html#incart_river_home

Here is a new article. No new facts though as far as I can tell.

 

[caspermi]

Here is another article in the Detroit Free Press

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/12/09/relatives-emu-student-killed-2012-hope-case-solved/77029348/