GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[liljim]

you would never be able to see the reaction of the jury to testimony even if it was covered live on TV.

i saw the video of his testimony and i thought he was believable, but i could definitely see some peeople thinking he came off as fake too, especially after the video of his interrogation was played and the prosecution asked him about it.

they raised legitimate issues and got him to make several statements that were at odds with the idea of him acting out of fear and self-defense. you are going to have quite a few people on the jury voting to convict on manslaughter imo.

 

[Sonya610]

It may seem that way but I don't think the gun flew out of his hand. There are multiple youtube videos showing men and women firing a shotgun like this with one hand only when it had the pistol grip. That is the purpose of it having a pistol grip.

If it would fly out of the hand of the person's hand shooting it then the manufacturer would be in deep do and would have been sued by now. This shotgun has a pistol grip because it can be fired like a handgun and also has a regular stock butt attachment that comes with it where you raise it up to your shoulder, aim, and then fire.

IMO

Thanks. I had to look for youtube videos, actually I could only find one with someone shooting one handed BUT there are a lot of nice pistol grip recoil reducers out there, sheesh one of the best rated is only $60 on Amazon! I think I need me one of those especially after having had the Mossberg in the closet unused for far more years that I want to admit. One of the reviews on Amazon said This makes a 12 guage with heavy buckshot manageable for a woman, teen, or grown man sissy.

On the other hand there is NO law that says a gun can't kick so hard it can fly out of your hands, there are plenty of youtube videos of women shooting shotguns where the it DOES fly out of their hands OR knocks them over. There also isn't a law saying that a gun can't just plain hurt/bruise you with recoil, if you aren't big/strong enough to handle it then that is your problem, not the manufacturer's.

This video is one of the best (and funniest) compilations of women getting walloped by shotguns:

[video=youtube;Ia4csoQLvGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia4csoQLvGY[/video]

 

[lonetraveler]

Thanks. I had to look for youtube videos, actually I could only find one with someone shooting one handed BUT there are a lot of nice pistol grip recoil reducers out there, sheesh one of the best rated is only $60 on Amazon! I think I need me one of those especially after having had the Mossberg in the closet unused for far more years that I want to admit. One of the reviews on Amazon said This makes a 12 guage with heavy buckshot manageable for a woman, teen, or grown man sissy.

On the other hand there is NO law that says a gun can't kick so hard it can fly out of your hands, there are plenty of youtube videos of women shooting shotguns where the it DOES fly out of their hands OR knocks them over. There also isn't a law saying that a gun can't just plain hurt/bruise you with recoil, if you aren't big/strong enough to handle it then that is your problem, not the manufacturer's.

This video is one of the best (and funniest) compilations of women getting walloped by shotguns:

[video=youtube;Ia4csoQ
LvGY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia4csoQLvGY[/video]

I had to laugh when I viewed this video. It reminded me of the first time I fired a shotgun, LOL. It knocked me backwards on my butt.

 

[HauntsForHope]

BEST HOME DEFENSE SHOTGUN - MOSSBERG 500 pistol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCFJ965wdNk

Mossberg 500
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUHAEvbf_I4

 

[HauntsForHope]

Theodore Wafer - Renisha McBride - Defense Opening Statements
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mNlhzMFwRg

Ted Wafer grilled on the stand in porch shooting trial
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6DxfZmVn0o

 

[HauntsForHope]

I can't understand why so many people are saying she was asking for help. She walked away from help. She left 6 people standing at the hit and run scene that offered her help. The woman whose car she hit told her to sit and wait for the ambulance at 1am. She walked away and was gone for 3 hours. How did she get her BAC to be nearly 3 times the legal limit at 4:30am? I took a google walk from the hit and run scene to the defendents house. There are two bars that would have been open til 4am along the route. Is it possible she went there and continued to drink? Did she mistake the defendents house for her friends house, where she was originally headed, only a mile away? The witnesses testified they heard only banging, no voice/s calling for help.

 

[AzPistonsGirl]

IMO She may not have been thinking clearly due to alcohol and the ACCIDENT SHE HAD JUST BEEN IN. Perhaps a head injury.

Also, bars open and SERVING until 4am in Michigan? Are you sure?

 

[Sonya610]

IMO She may not have been thinking clearly due to alcohol and the ACCIDENT SHE HAD JUST BEEN IN.

Obviously she wasn't thinking clearly when she crashed her car into a PARKED vehicle so hard the vehicle was unable to operate after that.

Then she disappeared for 2 hours and started banging on doors of a house to gain entry.

I think she was hurting, very very intoxicated/high, and also very very angry. I also think she came across others during the unaccounted time period and they don't want to talk about it.

I also think this is a prime example of why if you have to shoot someone, you do NOT talk to the police without an attorney present, no matter how justified your actions may be, you call a lawyer. Keep your mouth SHUT and call a lawyer. No matter what the police say, no matter how friendly they are, no matter if they tell you the shooting is justified and they just need the facts (police can lie during interviews), don't open your mouth without an attorney present.

His own words "p*ss and vinegar" will sink him, that and the conflicting stories about "accident" and then "self-defense".

 

[islandmixed]

you would never be able to see the reaction of the jury to testimony even if it was covered live on TV.

i saw the video of his testimony and i thought he was believable, but i could definitely see some peeople thinking he came off as fake too, especially after the video of his interrogation was played and the prosecution asked him about it.

they raised legitimate issues and got him to make several statements that were at odds with the idea of him acting out of fear and self-defense. you are going to have quite a few people on the jury voting to convict on manslaughter imo.

I can clearly see why others and myself would think his whole demeanor was very very well put on. Still I did like that he addressed renisha and that she had her whole life ahead. I was waiting for him to at least say something. Watching his testimony and the course of events that night, it seemed like he had a lot of time on his hands when the banging occurred lol. Is it me, or did it seem like he was doing all types of stuff, up and down the stairs, finding phone, getting a baseball bat, then the gun. I dunno, seemed drawn out to me.

Now there are things that still do not add up to me, a lot of covering up and things he is not being honest about, but I guess when your on that stand and you could go down for years, I understand you have to show full teary eye emotion. His police tapes that they showed on Nancy grace, he seemed very confident and unremorsful of his actions.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk now Free

 

[liljim]

the prosecution kept trying to get him to admit he aimed the gun at her because that is an element of one of the charges, that he purposefully pointed the gun at her. he definitely disagreed with that point almost every time it was brought up but there may have been once or twice that he didnt acknowledge and refute it when she included it in her description/question. not sure how important this will be since he definitely pointed it out and said he did not aim at her many many times. there was some discussion about whether or not he was coached to specifically deny doing so and the judge said she was going to make a remark (favorable to the prosecution) to the jury about it.

also, and much more important - she got him to admit that he shot on purpose, that it was not an accident. he also claimed it was a "total reflex action", but near the end of the day she said point blank "so was it an accident or did you shoot out of fear?" and he said "i shot out of fear". now that can still go to self-defense, but i think that comment and a few others she got him to make, coupled with the comments about being angry, can be used to argue that he shot purposefully, that there is enough evidence that he made the decision to fire, that he did not just react without thought.

it is a hard sell, but its not a totally unfounded argument.

i still think this is bound to end with a mistrial, i dont see any way everyone could agree on not guilty or 2nd degree. i could imagine them possibly settling on manslaughter but i think it is destined to be hung.

and now that i have said that it pretty much guarantees they will come to a verdict...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

you would never be able to see the reaction of the jury to testimony even if it was covered live on TV.

i saw the video of his testimony and i thought he was believable, but i could definitely see some peeople thinking he came off as fake too, especially after the video of his interrogation was played and the prosecution asked him about it.

they raised legitimate issues and got him to make several statements that were at odds with the idea of him acting out of fear and self-defense. you are going to have quite a few people on the jury voting to convict on manslaughter imo.

I meant if it was a live trial like they use to air on IS then the commentators like Beth Karas would come out and give their observations of how the jury is responding.

We will see how closings go tomorrow. I found her a little abrasive but that's just me and I prefer the calmer level headed prosecutor. Just like she sniped at him when he was saying the EMTs could have saved Renisha. She knew full well he was talking about if Renisha had stayed put instead of fleeing and got help when she had her hit and run accident 3 hours before she wound up banging on his doors. He meant this would have never happened but of course she knew what he was really talking about, imo. I didn't like the way she twisted the facts and jurors always remember the facts and what he was saying they knew was in regards to the vehicle accident she had been and not when she was on his porch.

I watched him today and I find him to be a simple man and one who is not savvy in a court setting yet no matter how nasty she got or how much she raised her voice to him he was very polite and calm.

IMO

 

[Meryl12]

I'm kinda local to Dearborn Heights, not sure where in Dearborn Heights this happened, it's pretty big. I've seen 2 differing stories on this. 1) she hit a parked car. 2) she hit another car and the driver called 911 and an ambulance. So why would she leave the scene ( which is illegal)to get help?The car accident was appox 16-18 ( in Detroit )miles from where she was shot at. Personally I do not believe she could walk that many miles in 2 hrs. And why go so far to find help? No 24 hr restaurants? gas stations? How much damage to her car?

There is still no explanation as to how she could have ended up 16 - 18 miles from the accident scene to where she died in just two hours. I also do not believe she could have walked that far in just 2 hours - injured. How did she get there???

 

[liljim]

I can clearly see why others and myself would think his whole demeanor was very very well put on. Still I did like that he addressed renisha and that she had her whole life ahead. I was waiting for him to at least say something. Watching his testimony and the course of events that night, it seemed like he had a lot of time on his hands when the banging occurred lol. Is it me, or did it seem like he was doing all types of stuff, up and down the stairs, finding phone, getting a baseball bat, then the gun. I dunno, seemed drawn out to me.

Now there are things that still do not add up to me, a lot of covering up and things he is not being honest about, but I guess when your on that stand and you could go down for years, I understand you have to show full teary eye emotion. His police tapes that they showed on Nancy grace, he seemed very confident and unremorsful of his actions.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk now Free

i definitely feel sometimes that his story is just too perfect and self-serving, and wonder if it really played out that way. especially now that i have heard his comments about being angry, they should give anyone pause imo.

but nothing he says is really outlandish or "couldn't have happened", so when it comes down to the prosecution having to prove their case i think it is a really tough thing to prove.

from everything i have seen right now i feel like he may just be guilty of manslaughter, but im not sure the prosecution has PROVEN that he is. the strongest things they have are his statements about being angry and the bit of fudging around he did with explaining why and how he actually pulled the trigger. im not sure it is enough tho, and i will be shocked if it is enough to get all 12 people to convict.

 

[liljim]

ocean - i agree about the prosecutor, i didnt like her style from the clips i saw and can imagine her losing a few of the jurors, twisting words/facts like you say, and when she talked about brain matter, the body..

regarding another post quoted above - she hit a parked car, and i dont think the accident was that far from his house, 1.5 to 2 miles iirc let me see if i can find that out for sure...

 

[liljim]

there is a map here, it was about 6 blocks away;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/12/renisha-mcbride-timeline_n_4262019.html

 

[lonetraveler]

I meant if it was a live trial like they use to air on IS then the commentators like Beth Karas would come out and give their observations of how the jury is responding.

We will see how closings go tomorrow. I found her a little abrasive but that's just me and I prefer the calmer level headed prosecutor. Just like she sniped at him when he was saying the EMTs could have saved Renisha. She knew full well he was talking about if Renisha had stayed put instead of fleeing and got help when she had her hit and run accident 3 hours before she wound up banging on his doors. He meant this would have never happened but of course she knew what he was really talking about, imo. I didn't like the way she twisted the facts and jurors always remember the facts and what he was saying they knew was in regards to the vehicle accident she had been and not when she was on his porch.

I watched him today and I find him to be a simple man and one who is not savvy in a court setting yet no matter how nasty she got or how much she raised her voice to him he was very polite and calm.

IMO

I've been biting my tongue ever since I first heard him speak and I've got to say that his just above whisper, super-calm voice really gets on my last nerve. Its almost like he is a robot here. I'm sure that the jury has to lean forward and strain to hear what he has to say. His voice is such a monotone that even when he is trying to display emotion, it falls flat. Just had to get that off my chest, I'm ok now.

 

[daisy7]

There is still no explanation as to how she could have ended up 16 - 18 miles from the accident scene to where she died in just two hours. I also do not believe she could have walked that far in just 2 hours - injured. How did she get there???

Not 16-18 miles -- it was just 6-7 blocks away from her car accident site.

 

[Credence]

Yes I seriously do, and I don't know why others find that so unbelievable.

He likely heard someone continually banging at different doors AROUND the property and stupidly thought if they realized he has a shotgun, if they saw him with a shotgun, they would LEAVE.

He came out with his finger on the trigger, and when she suddenly appeared he "jumped" and the gun went off when he involuntarily squeezed the trigger. That is why folks are SUPPOSED to keep their finger OFF the trigger until they are ready to fire! For that very reason! In case they get nervous and accidentally squeeze the trigger!

Everyone has experienced being startled and "jumping" involuntarily, that is EXACTLY what can happen in a tense situation when you are holding a loaded firearm! That is also why you keep the weapon pointed up or down unless you are ready to shoot, if accidental discharge was "impossible" then gun owners, hunters, police officers etc...wouldn't worry about casually holding their weapons and letting them point at others.

I have not posted --- just reading but since I haven't seen anyone mention this; he had to take off the safety before he fired. It was not an accident or reflex. Both the state and the defense firearms experts talked about the safety

 

[Film_At11]

Theodore Wafer is left handed , and therefore holding the shotgun with left hand , opening the solid wooden door with right hand. There is still a Locked screen door between himself and "Danger". Presumably his right hand is still holding the main doorknob? As he testified, the shotgun is pointed at the floor at this time.He sees a figure "come from the Side of his house", he raises the gun and shoots.

Did 5'4" Renisha " Vault" over the tall planter box shown in this picture?
Theoretically he could have just as easily slammed and locked the door .(The one he never should have opened)
I believe he was angry at having his truck recently paintballed, trash thrown on his lawn, and being woken from his recliner. (He was due @ work 7am)





http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/08/04/article-2715502-196B63E800000578-408_634x421.jpg

 

[Sonya610]

Watching his testimony and the course of events that night, it seemed like he had a lot of time on his hands when the banging occurred lol. Is it me, or did it seem like he was doing all types of stuff, up and down the stairs, finding phone, getting a baseball bat, then the gun. I dunno, seemed drawn out to me.

Yeah that part struck me as odd too. He definitely is NOT the type of man anyone would want helping during a crisis.

He hides, goes to the kitchen, holds a bat for a while while listening, then drops the bat and and slowly crawls to the bedroom because he thinks they might "see him", messes around with light switches so they etc... and then finally gets the shotgun.

That just makes no sense to me unless he "forgot" he had a shotgun in the house. Any reasonable person would have immediately raced to the bedroom and armed themselves before the "attacker/s" had a chance to break into the house.

I also don't understand the point of telling that part of the story UNLESS it was supposed to make him seem harmless and inept.