BirdieBoo
New Member
I wonder where these teens parents were...It sounds like it was a long involved, planned out process. The article also made it sound as if it were the teens' parents that decided to bury the fetus in the back yard.
MI - Teens tried to abort fetus with bat, Armada Township, Oct 2004
- Thread starter kayceebee
- Start date
The fetus was around 6 months along, but that equates to approximately 180 days (nearly 26 weeks), which is two weeks more than the established 24-week viability threshold. I think because it was just borderline, an autospy was needed to settle the issue. Unfortunately, the autopsy was inconclusive about the viability of the fetus because it was too badly decomposed. Now they are waiting for the toxicology tests to come in before deciding on charges... So it's not over just yet.
Here's a link I found:
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0411/20/D01-10025.htm
Here's a link I found:
http://www.detnews.com/2004/metro/0411/20/D01-10025.htm
BirdieBoo
New Member
Well, If it comes out that the parents are actually the ones who buried the fetus in the backyard...then I guess I'll assume thats where the teens got their ideas from.
BirdieBoo
New Member
I know but I was referring to this part:Timex said:
Police were also investigating to determine if the parents of the two teens would face charges after they apparently decided to bury the fetus in the back yard of a home in Armada Township, Mich.
If the parents of the teens decided to bury the fetus in the back yard, what kind of people would they be? Strange to say the least.
They would be part of todays culture...that dont feel a fetus of 6 months gestation is a person, so there would be nothing wrong with disposing of it. If it isnt legally a human being, there would be no law about burying it..unless the city had an ordinance. We bury pets in our back yard all the time. No difference really, since the law says this fetus was NOT a person.
ziggy
Active Member
Wow, life must be very confusing to a pregnant teen in today's society.
Let's see, I can kill this fetus is I pay someone to do it, but then my parents might find out.
Every woman has a right to what happens with regards to her own body and the government can't tell me I HAVE to have a baby.
How about we figure a way to do it ourselves, save the money and my parents won't know? Sounds like a perfectly sane solution when you think of the mindset we've put our young people in.
Whodathunk that was a crime?
Let's see, I can kill this fetus is I pay someone to do it, but then my parents might find out.
Every woman has a right to what happens with regards to her own body and the government can't tell me I HAVE to have a baby.
How about we figure a way to do it ourselves, save the money and my parents won't know? Sounds like a perfectly sane solution when you think of the mindset we've put our young people in.
Whodathunk that was a crime?
VespaElf
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Here's the flipside!:http://courttv.com/trials/news/1104/18_abortion_ap.html
The boy didn't want his g/f to have an abortion so he shot her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The boy didn't want his g/f to have an abortion so he shot her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
amandab
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http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050104/detu007_1.html
The boyfriend will face criminal charges for this.....
The boyfriend will face criminal charges for this.....
My problem with this boy being charged...
"Prosecutor Smith is relying on law created by the Michigan Legislature in 1999. According to that law, only the person making the intentional conduct against the pregnant individual is criminally liable. The pregnant individual herself, however complicit in the termination, is not."
This girl was just as involved in this crime as the boy, yet she is exempt from being charged with anything. Sorry, that's just not right.
"Prosecutor Smith is relying on law created by the Michigan Legislature in 1999. According to that law, only the person making the intentional conduct against the pregnant individual is criminally liable. The pregnant individual herself, however complicit in the termination, is not."
This girl was just as involved in this crime as the boy, yet she is exempt from being charged with anything. Sorry, that's just not right.
luvbeaches
New Member
Timex said:
I was thinking the same thing. Either way, the baby is dead. She didn't want the baby...she ended the pregnancy. It's very disturbing how they chose to end the pregnancy, but the end result was the same as if they had walked into an abortion clinic.
Candlelight
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I have quite a different take on this than most of you, who have focused on " the criminality" of the death of a 6 month ( 24 week) fetus. I am a health care professional and I care about the girl who was desperate enough to allow herself to be beaten 10-11 times hard with a baseball bat.
Consider being pregnant enough for a 16 year old boy to see where to hit, consider standing or kneeling every other day for 3 weeks ( 10- 11 days) and being hit hard with a baseball bat. For those who have borne children, surely you remember how tender that stretched skin, muscle, and ligaments were. An OB exam was starting to be uncomfortable at this stage, right?
This girl allowed herself to be beaten repeatedly. I might can see one time, if she didn't know what it felt like to be beaten.. but 10 times? 11 times?
We have no way to know when the fetus succumbed during the 2 week period, as a retained dead fetus is not uncommon after trauma. I have not read the pathology report. ( Autopsy is not the right word for a 24 week fetal' tissue examination- pathology report is.)
Even if she expelled the fetus and placenta right after the last beating, which caused the death of the fetus, this girl suffered.
She faced many medical/ surgical complications: Placenta Previa. Abruptio Placentae. Laceration or rupture of the uterus, liver, spleen or laceration to the peritoneum, causing peritonitis. Overwhelming sepsis.
Rupture of the abdominal aorta secondary to blunt force trauma. Spinal damage due to the force of the blows. Pelvic fracture. Appendiceal rupture. Horrible damage to the kidneys, ureters, or bladder. She could have died at any time during or after a beating with a baseball bat.
What would lead a child to resort to this? Ignorance, fear, poverty, denial up to a point, lack of parental support,...desperation ??
For those who might not have a good idea of how well a fetus is protected inside the amniotic- filled uterus, it takes a great deal of blunt force trauma to cause fetal demise in the absence of other factors. Women have been throwing themselves down stairs, off cliffs, out of wagons, off horses, off the roof, etc in the misguided attempt to miscarry for centuries. It usually won't happen if the woman is anatomically normal and the embryo is implanted intra-uterine. It is easier to break bones than to induce a self-abortion past 2 weeks gestation.
I have seen 2 women with severe trauma from a car accident sufficient enough that they were in a chronic vegetative state and with multiple fractures all over their bodies give birth to live babies while on life support.
I am sorry that an unwanted fetus was aborted without benefit of anesthesia or humane, sterile medical conditions for the teenaged girl. She went through hell, physically and most likely emotionally if she is mentally competent for her age. She was already born, fully able to feel all stages of pain.
This is not a story about how two little monsters played a game and a fetus died. This is a cautionary true event about desperation and lack of adult supervision and lack of education about teenage pregnancy.
I thought all kids had to take sex ed now. If so, I would think that girls are taught that if their period is late past a week, they should take a pregnancy test or go to the health department for a free test.
Birth control is vastly preferable to what happened here. Abortion is legal and gives a woman the right legally to choose whether she wants to be pregnant or not, up to 24 weeks.
Something huge failed in this case. Certainly her custodial parent failed. How could a parent not know that their daughter was being beaten severely every other day for 3 weeks?
How could they not see an advancing pregnancy? How could they bury a fetus in the back yard and not seek medical help for their beaten daughter?
The criminality exists in the actions of the boyfriend, the parents, and any other person who might have had knowledge of this desperate act and did not stop the boy from beating her.
All I can say at this point is that the girl needs psychiatirc help and possibly removal to a foster home. She has been abused and neglected beyond most peoples' comprehension, partly of her own action and inaction, which is abnormal in itself.
Consider being pregnant enough for a 16 year old boy to see where to hit, consider standing or kneeling every other day for 3 weeks ( 10- 11 days) and being hit hard with a baseball bat. For those who have borne children, surely you remember how tender that stretched skin, muscle, and ligaments were. An OB exam was starting to be uncomfortable at this stage, right?
This girl allowed herself to be beaten repeatedly. I might can see one time, if she didn't know what it felt like to be beaten.. but 10 times? 11 times?
We have no way to know when the fetus succumbed during the 2 week period, as a retained dead fetus is not uncommon after trauma. I have not read the pathology report. ( Autopsy is not the right word for a 24 week fetal' tissue examination- pathology report is.)
Even if she expelled the fetus and placenta right after the last beating, which caused the death of the fetus, this girl suffered.
She faced many medical/ surgical complications: Placenta Previa. Abruptio Placentae. Laceration or rupture of the uterus, liver, spleen or laceration to the peritoneum, causing peritonitis. Overwhelming sepsis.
Rupture of the abdominal aorta secondary to blunt force trauma. Spinal damage due to the force of the blows. Pelvic fracture. Appendiceal rupture. Horrible damage to the kidneys, ureters, or bladder. She could have died at any time during or after a beating with a baseball bat.
What would lead a child to resort to this? Ignorance, fear, poverty, denial up to a point, lack of parental support,...desperation ??
For those who might not have a good idea of how well a fetus is protected inside the amniotic- filled uterus, it takes a great deal of blunt force trauma to cause fetal demise in the absence of other factors. Women have been throwing themselves down stairs, off cliffs, out of wagons, off horses, off the roof, etc in the misguided attempt to miscarry for centuries. It usually won't happen if the woman is anatomically normal and the embryo is implanted intra-uterine. It is easier to break bones than to induce a self-abortion past 2 weeks gestation.
I have seen 2 women with severe trauma from a car accident sufficient enough that they were in a chronic vegetative state and with multiple fractures all over their bodies give birth to live babies while on life support.
I am sorry that an unwanted fetus was aborted without benefit of anesthesia or humane, sterile medical conditions for the teenaged girl. She went through hell, physically and most likely emotionally if she is mentally competent for her age. She was already born, fully able to feel all stages of pain.
This is not a story about how two little monsters played a game and a fetus died. This is a cautionary true event about desperation and lack of adult supervision and lack of education about teenage pregnancy.
I thought all kids had to take sex ed now. If so, I would think that girls are taught that if their period is late past a week, they should take a pregnancy test or go to the health department for a free test.
Birth control is vastly preferable to what happened here. Abortion is legal and gives a woman the right legally to choose whether she wants to be pregnant or not, up to 24 weeks.
Something huge failed in this case. Certainly her custodial parent failed. How could a parent not know that their daughter was being beaten severely every other day for 3 weeks?
How could they not see an advancing pregnancy? How could they bury a fetus in the back yard and not seek medical help for their beaten daughter?
The criminality exists in the actions of the boyfriend, the parents, and any other person who might have had knowledge of this desperate act and did not stop the boy from beating her.
All I can say at this point is that the girl needs psychiatirc help and possibly removal to a foster home. She has been abused and neglected beyond most peoples' comprehension, partly of her own action and inaction, which is abnormal in itself.
ariel7
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I'll not get into this much as I'm NOT an excellent debater 
and am prone to
be a bit too fiery. However, I will say that frankly I am sick of the word
'fetus'.
So, if someone wants their baby and it is born @ (or even before )
that magical age of viability (currently set at APpx. 24 weeks, correct?)
then it is appropriate to do all you can to save that life. Oh, and
you call him or her a baby. However, if you DON'T want that 'product
of conception' it is merely fetal tissue, a fetus, etc. ad nauseum.
Now if the mother had planned an abortion, but had been unable to get
one 'at the appropriate time' :waitasec: and ended up delivering her baby
@ 20 some weeks, if she had went to see this tiny baby (um fetus?)
in the nicu, and put her hand into the incubator, pulled out the tubes and held
her hand over 'its' mouth and nose thus terminating this 'life?' 'pregnancy?',
is this 'legal'? What ever is so magical about the air that we breathe that
renders a fetus a baby? [:waitasec: Hmmm, would you do a
pathology report on this post-uterine growth or an autopsy and
charge the mother with homicide. ]
Viability: What a sick joke, imo. What baby IS viable on their own?
They depend on us to feed them, clothe them, shelter them, love them.
Declaring a preborn baby a 'non-person' (fetus,fetal tissue,etc.) has
brought on a
holocaust worse than that of Nazi Germany. We know the horrors
that were perpetrated there. They were legal, too, btw. as the
jewish people(specifically) were declared 'non-persons'.
We are a confused society to thus espouse one thing (abortion rights,
privacy rights, choice above all) and to condemn the natural
outworkings of this philosophy:some babies being born and left to die
in dumpsters, etc. Men, not wanting the babies and the financial
burden of the products of their moment of pleasure, murdering their
girlfriends/wives,etc. Girls allowing themselves to be beaten because
they could not get a free, cheap, and easy 'termination' to their
pregnancy. [As a society that does not protect the innocent, that
treats children as mere burdens, we should not be shocked
at these crimes, and yet, we do find them shocking. I wonder why?]
I, too, think they'll (the girl and her boyfriend) get off for this crime.
And, I really do feel for these kids...what an awful thing to do and
to allow. How sad. How sad.
I'm glad that her 'boyfriend' didn't take
her life, too.
and am prone to be a bit too fiery. However, I will say that frankly I am sick of the word
'fetus'.
So, if someone wants their baby and it is born @ (or even before )
that magical age of viability (currently set at APpx. 24 weeks, correct?)
then it is appropriate to do all you can to save that life. Oh, and
you call him or her a baby. However, if you DON'T want that 'product
of conception' it is merely fetal tissue, a fetus, etc. ad nauseum.
Now if the mother had planned an abortion, but had been unable to get
one 'at the appropriate time' :waitasec: and ended up delivering her baby
@ 20 some weeks, if she had went to see this tiny baby (um fetus?)
in the nicu, and put her hand into the incubator, pulled out the tubes and held
her hand over 'its' mouth and nose thus terminating this 'life?' 'pregnancy?',
is this 'legal'? What ever is so magical about the air that we breathe that
renders a fetus a baby? [:waitasec: Hmmm, would you do a
pathology report on this post-uterine growth or an autopsy and
charge the mother with homicide. ]
Viability: What a sick joke, imo. What baby IS viable on their own?
They depend on us to feed them, clothe them, shelter them, love them.
Declaring a preborn baby a 'non-person' (fetus,fetal tissue,etc.) has
brought on a
holocaust worse than that of Nazi Germany. We know the horrors
that were perpetrated there. They were legal, too, btw. as the
jewish people(specifically) were declared 'non-persons'.
We are a confused society to thus espouse one thing (abortion rights,
privacy rights, choice above all) and to condemn the natural
outworkings of this philosophy:some babies being born and left to die
in dumpsters, etc. Men, not wanting the babies and the financial
burden of the products of their moment of pleasure, murdering their
girlfriends/wives,etc. Girls allowing themselves to be beaten because
they could not get a free, cheap, and easy 'termination' to their
pregnancy. [As a society that does not protect the innocent, that
treats children as mere burdens, we should not be shocked
at these crimes, and yet, we do find them shocking. I wonder why?]
I, too, think they'll (the girl and her boyfriend) get off for this crime.
And, I really do feel for these kids...what an awful thing to do and
to allow. How sad. How sad.
I'm glad that her 'boyfriend' didn't take her life, too.
luvbeaches
New Member
I'm not saying what they did is right, I am only saying that in this country, it is legal to get an abortion. I don't think the boy should be charged with a crime. Are doctors charged when they abort babies?
Now had that guy beat her and caused her to lose the baby (and she wanted the baby), then that would be another story.
Now had that guy beat her and caused her to lose the baby (and she wanted the baby), then that would be another story.
Nice logical post based on the reality that we live in today. Particularly the inner city that many will never have the chance to see but love to judge. My pal the social worker has pregnant 10 and 11 year olds all the time, life in the projects, it's not just some made for tv movie about kids gone wrong...Candlelight said:
A somewhat case here in Boston, but the girl died. So sad. Her boyfriend who was there and participated in the murder was acquitted.
Jury convicts man in killing of girl, baby
By Associated Press
Monday, October 18, 2004
BOSTON - A jury on Monday convicted a man of murdering a pregnant 14-year-old girl who was stabbed, beaten with a rock and buried alive. The verdict comes six months after a different jury acquitted the girl's boyfriend.
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=49698&format=
Jury convicts man in killing of girl, baby
By Associated Press
Monday, October 18, 2004
BOSTON - A jury on Monday convicted a man of murdering a pregnant 14-year-old girl who was stabbed, beaten with a rock and buried alive. The verdict comes six months after a different jury acquitted the girl's boyfriend.
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=49698&format=