Missing Voluntarily?

[Trino]

I never did go back & try to repost the info from my previous posts in the tara discussion, as a poster suggested, mostly because I had been working pretty hard on many different things for some time as well as following websleuths cases so I was really too tired to go back and redo it. Also there was the just the chance the posts would be just stirring up the same old sorts of back & forth posts as before without really helping the case along.

So far I have seen nothing to really change my outlook that tara may have left on her own. Inspite of hints to the contrary by various posters and some concerns that an L.E. or two may have voiced I have not read of anything concrete to tip the balance from voluntary missing to a crime having taken place.

Having said all that, I take note that no theory should be held once concrete facts to the contrary surface & so if concrete evidence of a crime surfaces I am willing to jump on the it-was-a-crime band wagon.
Perhaps L.E. has such concrete evidence or perhaps not but until I know one way or the other I continue to consider a runaway statistically likely.

Doc, let's assume you're correct. How would you answer the following?

1. Why has no one seen her, although it's been several years and her picture has been all over the news?
2. How is she making a living and supporting herself?
3. How did she leave Oscilla? On foot? Oscilla is miles from any public transportation.
4. Tara was close to her mother, yet when her mother died, no Tara. Why?

 

[Mysterylover]

I believe that Tara is the victim of murder. I dont think she would have left on her own and abandoned her mother, especially in her health. I have never heard, read or saw a single person claim that Tara was a selfish person. And, it would take a very selfish person to take off and leave their families, home, career and not to metion her animals, never to be heard from again.

I think she was tricked into opening her door at a late hour by someone she knew and I think this person had one reason only for coming to Tara's home that fateful Saturday night. I am one of the very few that believe that this monster came back to Tara's after disposing of her body and straightened up the crime scene. I just dont think he did a very good job of it.
I have always wondered how LE missed the broken beaded necklace laying on Tara's bedroom floor under her bed? They didnt find it until the 2nd search, IIRC.

I also think that the fire on Snapdragon Rd has always been significant to Tara as well.
I believe that her dead body was taken there in the SUV that burned in the garage.
I think it is very telling, when you start putting the pieces of the puzzle together and include the info we have from the fire.

Whatever happened to Tara, her fate, Im sure was unimaginable and I just want justice for her and for the life she was robbed of living because of one persons selfishness. Tara, wherever you are, we will not stop looking for you....

browneyedgirl, Excellent theory!
Rubber gloves and 2 fires leads me to suspect a very street smart killer..:rose::

 

[Mysterylover]

It wasn't stolen it belonged to the spouse of the woman who cleaned for the out-of-town owners.
It didn't burn in the garage as I believe the property only had a carport and this vehicle was found outside of that area but on the property.

The owner of the vehicle has since been arrested and convicted on drug charges but his name has not come up officially in Tara's investigation so it best that I don't mention it.

I don't think he had anything to do with harming Tara but POSSIBLY his vehicle/access to the house etc.
could have had something to do with Tara's disappearance and is a sticking point for me now as well as in the past.

There were no other missing person's from that town and, yet, cadaver dogs hit on that property.

concernedperson, Yes, way too many coincidences!.

The trail seems too thought-out and covered-up to have been an accidental killing..someone planned that murder...imo

There were no other missing person's from that small town. Yet after Tara disappears:
cadaver dogs hit on above mentioned property.
A vehicle burns
A house burns
Rubber glove found in yard.
broken neckless & clock under her bed
Tara's car seat pushed back
Dog outside home barking

Way too many coincidences happening in that little town at one time and I've never believed in coincidences...:Justice:

 

[docwho3]

Doc, let's assume you're correct. How would you answer the following?

1. Why has no one seen her, although it's been several years and her picture has been all over the news?
2. How is she making a living and supporting herself?
3. How did she leave Oscilla? On foot? Oscilla is miles from any public transportation.
4. Tara was close to her mother, yet when her mother died, no Tara. Why?

Most of these questions & many variations of the same were answered (with examples given) in posts on the topic before the forum was moved to the new site.

The short answer is:
1. Why not seen? : People manage to hide in plain sight all the time. One young runaway even managed to hide for some time in FLA with her car still with the same plates on it parked in plain sight and she worked in a restauraunt in contact with the public every day. Another person who voluntarily disappeared for years got work at a Walmart by handing a manager a sad story that convinced the manager to hire her under her false name etc. One lady disappeared for 16 years working at a marketing busines of some kind. Often people are seen by the public but not everyone turns in every face that resembles a missing person case they saw on TV.
2. How could she make a living?: See the answer to 1. And remember that tara has a knowledge of makeup and hairstyling etc and is a teacher as well. I think she could do about anything she wanted to do.
3. How did tara leave without her car?: Perhaps she had a friend or acquaintance help her. It wouldn't be the first time someone has had a little help in leaving. In fact, as far as I know, the fact that she had help in leaving does not seem to be in dispute but only whether the help was something she wanted or whether she was helped against her will to disappear.
4.Tara was close to her mother, yet when her mother died, no Tara. Why?: In another adult runaway case a man finally called his mother after many many years of silence. He was finally a middle aged man with a family and living in another country. Why do runaways sometimes do this? I don't know. I have been asking in posts for those who finally recover their adult runaways to try to get as much knowledge about what triggered the events both to leave and to return & then to share that but so far I have not seen much info from people.

 

[Esah]

DocWho3, as thorough as your post is, I completely disagree that Tara would have left her life voluntarily for the following reasons:

1. Above and beyond all reasons, Tara was a humanitarian. She always put others first. Tara validated herself by her giving. Whether it was prom dresses, or a listening ear, or actually giving money to those in need, she did it with a joy in her heart. For this reason, I don't see Tara having the courage to take off and become a nameless person in a new town. She liked being counted on. In fact she thrived on it. Being known as she was in her small town was monumental to her.

2. A second reason, is what I learned from reading her emails. Tara was absolulely obsessed with her love for MH. She was playing every angle she knew to win his affections in the last few weeks before her disappearance. Even a close friend of Tara's told me that just two days before Tara disappeared, Tara confided in her that she was still hopelessly in love with MH and would do anything to get him back. Even if he had to date other women for a while to see how much he was losing by not being with her. Tara said that she was the perfect woman for MH. With that much energy being focussed on the relationship, it just doesn't seem likely that Tara would stop everything and leave on her own. The emails don't elude to this at all. There was no sign or even words of her giving up.

3. A third reason, the FBI have Tara listed in a VICAP, meaning that they believe a violent crime has been comitted against Tara. They don't say these things lightly either.

The part I think you are missing with your assumption is Tara's personality. Given all of the circumstances we know of in Tara's life, we can't just arbitrarily put her in a general classification of what other women have done. We must include her personality and what Tara Faye Grinstead would do. I just don't see Tara's worst day imaginable leading her to leave without concern for her family, friends and beloved pets. That's not the Tara that I have come to know.

God Bless Tara, I feel that she is with Him.

 

[docwho3]

DocWho3, as thorough as your post is, I completely disagree that Tara would have left her life voluntarily for the following reasons:

Differing opinions is good because it means no possibility is not being considered.

1. Above and beyond all reasons, Tara was a humanitarian. She always put others first. Tara validated herself by her giving. . . .

Often when people disappear it is said to be out of character and perhaps it is out of character but people do it anyway.

2. A second reason, is what I learned from reading her emails. Tara was absolulely obsessed with her love for MH. She was playing every angle she knew to win his affections in the last few weeks before her disappearance. . . .

If I remember correctly MH had been quoted as having said he and she had discussed things and that it was over. I can see where that might trigger a need for a sudden life change.

3. A third reason, the FBI have Tara listed in a VICAP, meaning that they believe a violent crime has been comitted against Tara. They don't say these things lightly either. . . .

This would not be the first time L.E. have been convinced someone was the victim of foul play only to learn later that it was not what happened.

The part I think you are missing with your assumption is Tara's personality. . . .

. . .I just don't see Tara's worst day imaginable leading her to leave without concern for her family, friends and beloved pets. That's not the Tara that I have come to know.. . .

Actually I have learned to pretty much leave out what was considered characteristic of a person, what they liked or disliked or how they normally conducted themselves because in runaway adult situations this seems to all go out the window. Leave a pet behind? Mothers have been known to leave their own children behind without a word to let them know what happened to her so I suppose it is not beyond the bounds of possibility a person could leave a pet behind.

If what a person normally would do had turned out to be a good indictaor in adult runaway cases then I would be using that now when I look at these cases. The thing is that even wonderful people can find it necessary to run away sometimes.

 

[Esah]

You make some good points Doc. Do you have any statistics on women leaving everything behind, and having amnesia? Perhaps some of the time these people have such a meltdown that they close off that part of their life, psychologically, and simply have no memory of it. It would be one of the best solutions to this nightmare.

Unfortunately I also have my gut feelings to go on and they tell me that this is just too much of a stretch in Tara's situation. She would have had to leave on foot and the roads leading in and out of Ocilla are not on bus routs tmk. A taxi service would have had a record of the fare, but would most likely had to have come from Tifton. Also, there would be phone records to that effect.

If a friend picked her up and sent her on to a new life, they would most likely have caved and told by now.

HD's numerous calls to Tara that weekend have always plagued me. He knew something was wrong. He was reportedly one of the last 3 people Tara spoke with. (this is still being debated, but one source closed to this told me it was true) He is the only person who thought there was a problem that weekend and yet he even came up short when he tried to find her. Should he have gone inside Tara's house that night and seen that she wasn't there? Or did he? We've assumed that because his card was left in the door that he didn't go inside, but maybe he did. Not seeing her there, he might have just given up and went home. But later thought that he should call, and call....

No one has an airtight alibi for the 36 hours in question that weekend. Can you focus some of your attention on this fact and maybe come up with something we've all missed?

It would take a lot of convincing Doc, for me to believe that Tara left voluntarily. Perhaps you will find that one detail that concludes it, that we have all been missing. Keep on trying man.

 

[docwho3]

You make some good points Doc. . .

Thank you.

. . .Do you have any statistics on women leaving everything behind, and having amnesia? . . .

No, sorry I don't have stats on that particular runaway cause. I am not sure anyone has kept stats on that particular cause.

. . .Perhaps some of the time these people have such a meltdown that they close off that part of their life, psychologically, and simply have no memory of it. It would be one of the best solutions to this nightmare. . .

At least in such a scenario she might still be alive to someday reunite with some relatives and loved ones. I tend to hope for life.

. . .She would have had to leave on foot . . .

Not remembering leaving does not mean you could not have had help leaving.

. . .If a friend picked her up and sent her on to a new life, they would most likely have caved and told by now. . .

No one knows if any helper even knew her well at all and we do not know if that person is even still in this country or not.

. . .HD's numerous calls to Tara that weekend have always plagued me. He knew something was wrong. . .

Perhaps when someone cares about another he can sometimes know enough about the person to tell that something is wrong or not quite right about a situation whether a runaway situation or a crime or other situation.

. . .No one has an airtight alibi for the 36 hours in question that weekend. Can you focus some of your attention on this fact and maybe come up with something we've all missed? . . .

I am always asking myself questions about parts of the case that intrigue me but I really think that if anyone can best figure out the things like alibis and fit them with timelines and other evidence it would be L.E. They are usually trained and experienced in such things and usually have access to info that we have not been told.

. . .It would take a lot of convincing Doc, for me to believe that Tara left voluntarily. Perhaps you will find that one detail that concludes it, that we have all been missing. Keep on trying man.

Thanks for providing me this chance to try to explain something to people. Just to be clear for everyone: I am not trying to convince anyone that tara is a runaway or that she is not a runaway. I know that sometimes it may seem like I am trying to convince people that she ran away but what I am trying to do is to put forth my contribution to the ongoing case discussion, to tell my current opinion.

This is an ongoing case discussion and I often tell my current opinion based on the evidence that I have seen in news articles and I often explain whatever views I have to those who may ask questions or who raise points of constructive objection to my current view on a case. When possible I try to cite examples and provide links so people can see that my thoughts on a case were based on true facts and on other real cases and so that people can see that my thoughts were not just baseless imaginings that had never before happened in other cases. Often I am only trying to establish that my views are at least legitimate real possibilities based on thoughtful consideration of other cases and the public known facts of the current case.

Perhaps as we all discuss cases we can help sharpen each others thoughts. Maybe in time we can even prove helpful in a case or two or three.

 

[Esah]

Well said, Docwho! I admire your open mind. Something that can be lacking at times in this case. Some folks are so sure about things and will get so argumentative and that gets us no where. You aren't sucked in by what others think. You are willing to stand alone in order to make a point. Thank you for doing that for Tara's sake.

 

[Hucklepie]

I was posting about a case on another board tonight and was trying to remember - did LE ever officially speculate (at any point) that Tara was missing voluntarily? In the case I'm reading about now, LE has declared this man "missing voluntarily" and many posters are taking that to mean that LE knows where he is and just aren't making it public. I could have sworn that at one time they said Tara was also missing voluntarily, and lord knows there was never any real evidence that she disappeared by choice.

 

[badhorsie]

How reliable are Cadaver dogs?

Just wondering:blowkiss:

 

[docwho3]

. . .did LE ever officially speculate (at any point) that Tara was missing voluntarily? . . .

A quick websearch netted these results among others:

". . .Nothing in those interviews, authorities have said, provided them with any information to suggest that Tara Grinstead had been the victim of foul play. . .
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/forensics/tara_grinstead/5.html

". . .Even though Tara's no where in sight, right now, police are not suspecting foul play. "We haven't found anything at this point to leave us to believe anything," says Ocilla Police Department Chief, Billy Hancock.
Police say after investigating the house, they found no signs of forced entry. . ."
http://www.walb.com/Global/story.asp?S=4028907&nav=5kZQ

". . .Police characterize their investigation as a missing-person case. Investigators are not ruling out the possibility of foul play, but without more evidence, they say it is also quite possible that Grinstead may have just walked away from all the drama in her personal life. . . ."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/09/30/grace.beauty.missing/index.html

". . .Authorities have never said they suspect the 30-year-old woman was a victim of foul play. A cell phone that she was known to always carry was found in her house, her unlocked car was in the driveway, but her purse and keys were gone.
A latex glove _ the type worn by police officers and medical workers _ was found in her front yard.
"There's a lot of speculation," Police Chief Billy Hancock said. "We certainly are still considering it a missing persons case and the possibility of abduction is not being ruled out. We don't have any evidence of that." . . ."
http://www.news4jax.com/news/6738725/detail.html

". . ."We don't have any evidence that suggests foul play," said Irwin County Sheriff Donnie Youghn. . ."
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/5257735/detail.html

Wrap up:
I do not believe that L.E. stated that they had come to a definitive conclusion about Tara Grinstead but they did state they had no real evidence of foul play and yet were not ruling out either runaway or foul play without more evidence and that until more evidence was forthcoming they were treating it as a missing person case (as opposed to a crime case.) It may be that people read between the lines of those quotes to believe that L.E. suspected a runaway situation.

 

[RememberTara]

Rothwell's initial impression? "It appeared that Tara may have left on her own. However, we had a glove, a latex glove that we couldn't explain. That glove indicates foul play to us."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/06/30/48hours/main4219397.shtml?tag=contentMain;contentBody

While the possibility a missing person simply left without telling anyone always exists, the GBI said in each of the cases they investigate it appears a crime occurred. Last year, the GBI went through all missing person cases in its files and trimmed the list by about 100 women who had returned on their own, Bankhead said.

http://www.ajc.com/news/blairsville-case-puts-highlight-123959.html

 

[Trino]

Haven't posted in quite some time...

I really don't believe Tara voluntarily disappeared. However, let us not forget that seasoned LE have been wrong. Great examples are Jamie Dugard and Elizabeth Smart, wherein LE suspected the wrong persons.

 

[CanManEh]

iM SORRY I WOULD GIVE THIS TOPIC ON TARA A -1 OUT OF 100% CHANCE THAT THIS IS WHAT HAPPEN..I HAVE ALLWAYS THOUGHT THIS IS MH AND MAYBE A ACOMPLISS AND THAT STUFF IN THAT POLICE STATION HE WORKED FOR AND HIS FREINDS HAVE MAYBE NOT GOT RID OF EVIDENCE BUT LET SOME EVIDENCE GET LOST OR TIPS NOT GETTING REPORTED TO THE LEAD INVESTIGATOR JUST STEER ANY DAMAGING INFO IN ANOTHER DIRECTION..

 

[wadahoot]

No one knows if any helper even knew her well at all and we do not know if that person is even still in this country or not.

I feel like, if someone cared enough about Tara to help her leave in such a mysterious way (perhaps Tara felt in danger and needed to leave), they would also have cared enough to have let Tara's mama know before she died. It would be a hard-hearted person to let a mama die without knowing her girl was alright, especially if the accomplice cared about Tara enough to help her leave.

 

[docwho3]

I feel like, if someone cared enough about Tara to help her leave in such a mysterious way (perhaps Tara felt in danger and needed to leave), they would also have cared enough to have let Tara's mama know before she died. It would be a hard-hearted person to let a mama die without knowing her girl was alright, especially if the accomplice cared about Tara enough to help her leave.

Unfortunately it would not be the first time such a thing has happened.

Whatever you believe, at least the fact that you posted is keeping the topic alive and perhaps that in itself may be helping the case move towards a solution. Thanks

 

[RememberTara]

I was wondering if your thoughts have changed about Tara's disappearance? There have been several TV shows featuring her case. I think you once felt that she could be a run-a-way, have your thoughts changed over time?

 

[browneyedgirl]

I just wish something would happen on her behalf so that she and her family may have some sort of justice.......its been too long!!!

 

[CanManEh]

voluntarily ? .... Not a chance .