Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[javacoder]

How do you square the "trusted" abductor? (meaning more than one participant) That seems to be highlighted in the last official police statement as I recall.

OK, that's where I have a bit more catching up to do on the case.

 

[kemo]

Every now and then, this thread comes back to life and I can't resist checking in. The problem is that there is no new evidence. There is a lot of information and the folks on this thread have throughly analyzed it and come with all kinds of theories, suspects and motives, etc. but we have failed to come up with anything that might steer Law Enforcement in the right direction.

My own belief is that it was someone who knew Sherrill and/or Suzy and was invited into the home. The primary motive was sexual but there may have animosity towards one one of them as an underlying motive.

I believe it was only one perpetrator. The primary basis is the old adage that "two can only keep a secret if one of them is dead".

This crime is very similar to "the Yosemite Murders" (you can google it) where one guy with a knife was able to abduct a mother, a teenage daughter and a friend from a motel room. He was able to do it by convincing them that he wouldn't hesitate to kill any of them but they would all be OK if they co- operated.

I think the big mistake the SPD made in their investigation was to not go deeply enough into the two women's personal lives. This guy would have been older than Suzy's and younger than Sherrill's core group of acquaintances but he was close enough for them to open their door for him after 3:00 AM and for them to believe that he would not hurt them, however crazy he was acting.

This is, of course, just my own wild-*advertiser censored* guess. I only believe it is the most probable explanation. I am not interested in getting into the kind of debates that occur on this board all to often but I feel the starting point of this investigation should have been: "stranger or acquaintance?" and, perhaps, the SPD took a mis-step right out of the shoot.

 

[Blue Girl1991]

I had a long and detailed reply. Unfortunately the page was reloaded and it was all lost.

In the meantime a rereading of post #28 in thread #1 would be helpful.

I do believe the timing had had to do with the upcoming testimony.

I am very interested to read your detailed reply that you wrote when You have the time to post .:smile:

Sometimes I think that some of the perps actually reading some of the posts on the springfield three thread , that's a chilling feeling.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Appreciate that. You'll have to forgive me as I'm not quite up to speed on the suspects and all that. I'm not even 100% sure what GJ3 is in reference to but I'll keep learning. I will say this - although this doesn't provide any new leads, just adds to the craziness of it - Let's assume the theory above is true. Someone was coming for Sherill and assuming she was home alone. If the perp came AFTER 2:50am/when the other girls got home, a perp of this caliber (you reference in prior posts how detail oriented and careful they must to have been with the fake crime scene) would've called it off upon seeing 2 additional cars in the driveway, no? That would mean there are 2+ additional people in the house they didn't plan on. Which would mean, in the context of Sherill was the target theory, the perp was likely already in the house when the 2 girls got home around 3:00am. Which would mean that those poor girls were never meant to walk into that house... Creepy.

But then that begs the question, where was the perp's car? Did the two girls see it and just not think too much of it? Perhaps the perp knocked Sherill out when he heard the cars pull up and ambushed the girls once they walked in?

The "Grand Jury Three" are the three men who were on the street and recently out of prison at the time. They were, I believe, the main subjects of the grand jury that was no-billed. At that time I don't believe Cox had come to the front of the suspect list as he had what was seen in the beginning as a solid alibi. His alibi collapsed when his girlfriend recanted the alibi. He was the one who received much press and two of his letters were published. He comes right up to confessing but not quite.

You said you found that excerpt on thread one. Can you cite the post # so I can study it and the writer as well as I would be interested in what he or she said in later posts?

I have found it. It was post #162.

 

[javacoder]

With regards to the missing photo, are investigators certain that it was taken that night? Couldn't it just have been an empty photo slot.. maybe Sherill had removed it in preparation of Suzie's grad photos?

 

[Missouri Mule]

With regards to the missing photo, are investigators certain that it was taken that night? Couldn't it just have been an empty photo slot.. maybe Sherill had removed it in preparation of Suzie's grad photos?

That is possible.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Every now and then, this thread comes back to life and I can't resist checking in. The problem is that there is no new evidence. There is a lot of information and the folks on this thread have throughly analyzed it and come with all kinds of theories, suspects and motives, etc. but we have failed to come up with anything that might steer Law Enforcement in the right direction.

My own belief is that it was someone who knew Sherrill and/or Suzy and was invited into the home. The primary motive was sexual but there may have animosity towards one one of them as an underlying motive.

I believe it was only one perpetrator. The primary basis is the old adage that "two can only keep a secret if one of them is dead".

This crime is very similar to "the Yosemite Murders" (you can google it) where one guy with a knife was able to abduct a mother, a teenage daughter and a friend from a motel room. He was able to do it by convincing them that he wouldn't hesitate to kill any of them but they would all be OK if they co- operated.

I think the big mistake the SPD made in their investigation was to not go deeply enough into the two women's personal lives. This guy would have been older than Suzy's and younger than Sherrill's core group of acquaintances but he was close enough for them to open their door for him after 3:00 AM and for them to believe that he would not hurt them, however crazy he was acting.

This is, of course, just my own wild-*advertiser censored* guess. I only believe it is the most probable explanation. I am not interested in getting into the kind of debates that occur on this board all to often but I feel the starting point of this investigation should have been: "stranger or acquaintance?" and, perhaps, the SPD took a mis-step right out of the shoot.

Didn't the profiler say that someone was brought into this not knowing what would ensue? That would require at least two people would it not?

 

[javacoder]

Didn't the profiler say that someone was brought into this not knowing what would ensue? That would require at least two people would it not?

"The abduction leader probably was an acquaintance 'who may have known their comings and goings"

"I think they (other people) were brought into this not knowing what was going to happen. It's quite possible that the primary person did not know what was going to happen"

Seems like it. Maybe they hired a hitman or "crew" to just "scare them" (phone calls, broken porch light) and things went south.

I live in a very pleasant and family friendly city in SE U.S. There's been one homicide in our history prior to last month, where a psychotic ex-wife hired a hitman to kill her ex-husband's new fiance(e?).

 

[Missouri Mule]

"The abduction leader probably was an acquaintance 'who may have known their comings and goings"

"I think they (other people) were brought into this not knowing what was going to happen. It's quite possible that the primary person did not know what was going to happen"

Seems like it. Maybe they hired a hitman or "crew" to just "scare them" (phone calls, broken porch light) and things went south.

I live in a very pleasant and family friendly city in SE U.S. There's been one homicide in our history prior to last month, where a psychotic ex-wife hired a hitman to kill her ex-husband's new fiance(e?).

My (and others) best information from several sources deemed reliable was that it was always the plan to permanently remove them. It was IMO professionally done by someone familiar with police procedure having to investigate crime scenes.

My speculation is that the plan was to only take Sherrill and Suzie. Had only they been taken it would have been a three day story and soon forgotten. They simply wanted to start a new life and disappeared. No law against doing that.

When Stacy arrived the plan was altered in significant ways; not the least of which was to stage the crime scene, in my opinion.

It is important to note that there is no known whereabouts of Sherrill after approximately 11:15 P:M. so far as I am aware. That is to say we have no way to know if Suzie and Sherrill had any contact with Sherrill after the graduation ceremony.

Meanwhile suggest reading post #550 in thread #1.

 

[javacoder]

My (and others) best information from several sources deemed reliable was that it was always the plan to permanently remove them. It was IMO professionally done by someone familiar with police procedure having to investigate crime scenes.

My speculation is that the plan was to only take Sherrill and Suzie. Had only they been taken it would have been a three day story and soon forgotten. They simply wanted to start a new life and disappeared. No law against doing that.

When Stacy arrived the plan was altered in significant ways; not the least of which was to stage the crime scene, in my opinion.

It is important to note that there is no known whereabouts of Sherrill after approximately 11:15 P:M. so far as I am aware. That is to say we have no way to know if Suzie and Sherrill had any contact with Sherrill after the graduation ceremony.

Meanwhile suggest reading post #550 in thread #1.

That was a good timeline. I have a couple more things I'd like your comment on. I read on another site that Sherrill was likely in a dress - any merit to that? Wasn't she varnishing furniture?

And secondly, how old do you believe the perp(s) is (are) now and do you think he would be one to browse this site, for example? Or do you think the perp has faded into the shadows and attempted to remove himself from the situation? The FBI profile got me thinking about what the person's personality is potentially like.

 

[chaleigh26]

True crime garage have recently did a 2 part podcast on The Springfield Three.

 

[Missouri Mule]

That was a good timeline. I have a couple more things I'd like your comment on. I read on another site that Sherrill was likely in a dress - any merit to that? Wasn't she varnishing furniture?

And secondly, how old do you believe the perp(s) is (are) now and do you think he would be one to browse this site, for example? Or do you think the perp has faded into the shadows and attempted to remove himself from the situation? The FBI profile got me thinking about what the person's personality is potentially like.

Last question first, I imagine he has been on several sites including this one, if he is not in prison or deceased. Mid fifties, would be my best guess. Several possible suspects have very recently died.

The dress is interesting. How would anyone know what dress she had on at the time of her going missing? Does anyone have a police quote on that?

 

[Missouri Mule]

This is so aggravating. I was just about to finish a long post and the page was lost as it was reloading. Going to lunch.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Sorry about that.


I'll do a copy and paste so that won't happen again.

As to the crime itself, I would make these points and this is a moving target as new facts still continue to emerge. This is what I think I know.

1) The perp has been identified. He is not a "talked about" person whatever that means. If that confuses you it does me as well.

2) The "usual suspects" can almost certainly be eliminated. There is really nothing to tie them to the crime although the alibis are shaky. It would be greatly surprising if they turned out to be involved although one may have actual knowledge of the perp (or so I have been told).

3) The investigation was a fiasco from everything I have been told. I have, however, been told that the current investigators are competent but their hands are tied. It has been repeated that it will take a confession to solve the crime.

4) There have been several suspects floated and I will have to backtrack on what I said earlier. I have now information that tends to indicate of the three deceased suspects only one may have had a connection and maybe not then. So the earlier post should be seen in its context at the time I posted it.

5) The whole parking lot garage was a monumental waste of time. That is a huge shame because it took so much oxygen out of the case and so many people then and even now believe the garage should be cored (at a minimal cost) to eliminate forever that the remains are hidden beneath the slab. There is, however, another slab that had some allegedly mysterious things going on that very morning that would tie in with the alleged concrete workers and the van. I would not rule that possibility out.

6) The three main suspects that I have seen floated are 1) Robert Craig Cox, 2) Gerald Carnahan and one other that slips my mind at this moment.

7) I had long argued that Cox of all possible suspects had the training, and a known history of violence including almost certain murder in his background. The problem with him is that he was not known for his methodical method of murder. However, he had an alibi that collapsed when his girlfriend recanted. His fallback alibi was that he was at home with his parents who evidently vouched for him. As far as I am concerned he has no alibi.

8) The "Grand Jury 3" were three ex-cons who were on the street at the time of the crime. Unknown is whether they had any alibis. I tend to doubt they were involved, unless it was on the back end of the crime. That is possible.

9) The abductor and the murderer are two individuals or groups. That was made abundantly clear to me by someone with connections to the inner workings of LE.

10) There obviously was a motive and it was revealed to me (by someone in LE) that it had to do with drugs in the Rogersville area (a town located about 20 miles from Springfield. That is also the same general location of the infamous Robb group. Two are now deceased and the third is to my knowledge still alive.

11) I'm not enamored with them either as this crime was a well conceived and executed plan. They were not known for that but were experts on burglary and the elder Robb was convicted and later died in prison. I'm not certain of the second one but he is deceased.

12) The original plan, I believe, was to take only Sherrill and Suzie. Stacy threw the plan off and had to be improvised which is where the crime scene was staged IMO. I do not believe that three women would pile all three of their purses up on the steps to Suzie's bedroom. They, were, IMO, taken from the house, searched and then returned at a later time.

13) The opportunity to take any or all of them was between about 11:15 PM to about 5:45 AM, just shortly before twilight. There is no known (to my knowledge) that Sherrill's whereabouts was known after 11:15PM. It is entirely possible that she was taken prior to the girls arrivals although the common understanding is that all three were taken at the same time.

14) Whoever did this knew what he was doing. The crime scene was staged, in my opinion, in such a way as to throw off the investigation. That required, IMO, someone with LE knowledge of crime scene investigations. Draw your own conclusions.

15) I disregard the initial visitors and all that were there that day as having any involvement, no matter how ill conceived were their actions.

I will leave it here for now. Thread #1 is perhaps the most informative of the threads. I would suggest rereading the postings of Hurricane and Trooogrit. I know them and they did some extensive work on the case. I would also reread "Max Trollbot" over on Reddit. His account is virtually identical to what a military analyst provided me some time back. I'll think of more later I'm sure.

 

[kemo]

Last question first, I imagine he has been on several sites including this one, if he is not in prison or deceased. Mid fifties, would be my best guess. Several possible suspects have very recently died.

The dress is interesting. How would anyone know what dress she had on at the time of her going missing? Does anyone have a police quote on that?

It is generally believed that Stacy was wearing only her underwear because her shorts were neatly folded by her bed and she would have been too big for Suzy's clothes. I have never heard any reports of what Sherrill and Suzy were wearing. Obviously, there were no witnesses who reported seeing them.

The one way we might know what they were wearing is if someone very familiar with them were to go through their clothing and see what was missing. I am not sure that except for each other, there was anyone that close to either who knew the clothing they usually wore. The most likely clothing Suzy would put on would have been what she was wearing earlier.

It is my belief that someone Suzy or Sherrill knew came knocking at the door and was let in. Suzy would have put something on if she answered the door and Sherrill would have probably gotten up to check who it was. She would have put something on. Stacy, however, would probably stayed in bed as, who ever it was, probably did not involve her.

If all three women were in what they wore to bed, it would suggest they were broken into and taken by surprise.

Sherrill had been home alone that evening and had earlier painted a chest of drawers. It is hard to imagine that she would have been wearing a dress. If it could be ascertained that Sherrill was wearing a dress ( a dress being the only missing article of clothing), it could be a very significant lead. It would suggest that somebody had arrived for whom Sherrill wanted to make a better impression than a quick bathrobe might offer.

We do know that a bare footprint that was probably Stacy's was pointed directly towards the front door. It is a pretty reasonable assumption that with only underwear and without shoes, she was being forcibly abducted but she was walking out.

Does anyone have any better information about what they might have been wearing.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Appreciate that. You'll have to forgive me as I'm not quite up to speed on the suspects and all that. I'm not even 100% sure what GJ3 is in reference to but I'll keep learning. I will say this - although this doesn't provide any new leads, just adds to the craziness of it - Let's assume the theory above is true. Someone was coming for Sherill and assuming she was home alone. If the perp came AFTER 2:50am/when the other girls got home, a perp of this caliber (you reference in prior posts how detail oriented and careful they must to have been with the fake crime scene) would've called it off upon seeing 2 additional cars in the driveway, no? That would mean there are 2+ additional people in the house they didn't plan on. Which would mean, in the context of Sherill was the target theory, the perp was likely already in the house when the 2 girls got home around 3:00am. Which would mean that those poor girls were never meant to walk into that house... Creepy.

But then that begs the question, where was the perp's car? Did the two girls see it and just not think too much of it? Perhaps the perp knocked Sherill out when he heard the cars pull up and ambushed the girls once they walked in?

The cars/vans have been argued ad infinitum and there is no real consensus that I know of. I saw an identical van, blue in color, but the police seemingly had no interest in it. Make of that what you will.

 

[Missouri Mule]

It is generally believed that Stacy was wearing only her underwear because her shorts were neatly folded by her bed and she would have been too big for Suzy's clothes. I have never heard any reports of what Sherrill and Suzy were wearing. Obviously, there were no witnesses who reported seeing them.

The one way we might know what they were wearing is if someone very familiar with them were to go through their clothing and see what was missing. I am not sure that except for each other, there was anyone that close to either who knew the clothing they usually wore. The most likely clothing Suzy would put on would have been what she was wearing earlier.

It is my belief that someone Suzy or Sherrill knew came knocking at the door and was let in. Suzy would have put something on if she answered the door and Sherrill would have probably gotten up to check who it was. She would have put something on. Stacy, however, would probably stayed in bed as, who ever it was, probably did not involve her.

If all three women were in what they wore to bed, it would suggest they were broken into and taken by surprise.

Sherrill had been home alone that evening and had earlier painted a chest of drawers. It is hard to imagine that she would have been wearing a dress. If it could be ascertained that Sherrill was wearing a dress ( a dress being the only missing article of clothing), it could be a very significant lead. It would suggest that somebody had arrived for whom Sherrill wanted to make a better impression than a quick bathrobe might offer.

We do know that a bare footprint that was probably Stacy's was pointed directly towards the front door. It is a pretty reasonable assumption that with only underwear and without shoes, she was being forcibly abducted but she was walking out.

Does anyone have any better information about what they might have been wearing.

Somewhere (I don't remember where) was that she was wearing a floral dress. That would require someone with extensive knowledge of her wardrobe.

It would be so helpful in the police would go down the list of things that are proven facts. Sometimes going over what we think we know and what can be proven makes my hair hurt.

It is probably arguably true that Stacy was not wearing any shorts unless she had taken out a clean pair from her overnight bag but that has never been stated. What Suzie and Sherrill were wearing would be sheer speculation.

Frankly, I don't understand why the police don't get out in front of this investigation and help us understand. Surely after 25 years the public would be comforted and the surviving family members would have some assurance the case is currently being handled. I'm not sure it is even being worked any longer to be perfectly honest. All I hear is that it is an active investigation and a confession is needed. Very frustrating.

Probably the most single important fact, so far as I know, it that whoever was let in was trusted by either Suzie or Sherrill. That has got to narrow the suspect list to a previous few. Nobody lets someone in the middle of the night unless they trust the person. Speculation: That could have been a cop or a police impersonator. There were three uniforms stolen from a dry cleaner sometime earlier from reports deemed credible.

Remember that not only did the house have a regular door but it also had a storm door which means that had someone come to the door, Sherrill or Suzie could have seen who was outside the storm door. The front porch light and the yard light were on as they were connected to the same switch. Surely the individual presenting himself had to be identified.

I can relate a particular time that some guy came to my door after 10 PM out in the country and our house was some 400 feet off the road. He had gotten lost. It was unsettling even to me. It was after that time I purchased my first gun. It is my understanding Sherrill was very security conscious. There is no indication that entry was gained through a window or other entry point although it has been speculated that a window had been left open to allow the paint fumes to escape. Also it is not impossible that the sliding glass door on the back side of Suzie's bedroom could have been lifted off the tracks and entry gained. To my knowledge no such claim has been advanced.

To put this into perspective, the house back then was in the early $40s in valuation. To the west were many "old money" homes in a semi gated community that were in the half million dollar range. So why pick this house if the intention was burglary?

Who could be trusted enough to be allowed into the house?

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Sorry about that.


I'll do a copy and paste so that won't happen again.

As to the crime itself, I would make these points and this is a moving target as new facts still continue to emerge. This is what I think I know.

1) The perp has been identified. He is not a "talked about" person whatever that means. If that confuses you it does me as well.

2) The "usual suspects" can almost certainly be eliminated. There is really nothing to tie them to the crime although the alibis are shaky. It would be greatly surprising if they turned out to be involved although one may have actual knowledge of the perp (or so I have been told).

3) The investigation was a fiasco from everything I have been told. I have, however, been told that the current investigators are competent but their hands are tied. It has been repeated that it will take a confession to solve the crime.

4) There have been several suspects floated and I will have to backtrack on what I said earlier. I have now information that tends to indicate of the three deceased suspects only one may have had a connection and maybe not then. So the earlier post should be seen in its context at the time I posted it.

5) The whole parking lot garage was a monumental waste of time. That is a huge shame because it took so much oxygen out of the case and so many people then and even now believe the garage should be cored (at a minimal cost) to eliminate forever that the remains are hidden beneath the slab. There is, however, another slab that had some allegedly mysterious things going on that very morning that would tie in with the alleged concrete workers and the van. I would not rule that possibility out.

6) The three main suspects that I have seen floated are 1) Robert Craig Cox, 2) Gerald Carnahan and one other that slips my mind at this moment.

7) I had long argued that Cox of all possible suspects had the training, and a known history of violence including almost certain murder in his background. The problem with him is that he was not known for his methodical method of murder. However, he had an alibi that collapsed when his girlfriend recanted. His fallback alibi was that he was at home with his parents who evidently vouched for him. As far as I am concerned he has no alibi.

8) The "Grand Jury 3" were three ex-cons who were on the street at the time of the crime. Unknown is whether they had any alibis. I tend to doubt they were involved, unless it was on the back end of the crime. That is possible.

9) The abductor and the murderer are two individuals or groups. That was made abundantly clear to me by someone with connections to the inner workings of LE.

10) There obviously was a motive and it was revealed to me (by someone in LE) that it had to do with drugs in the Rogersville area (a town located about 20 miles from Springfield. That is also the same general location of the infamous Robb group. Two are now deceased and the third is to my knowledge still alive.

11) I'm not enamored with them either as this crime was a well conceived and executed plan. They were not known for that but were experts on burglary and the elder Robb was convicted and later died in prison. I'm not certain of the second one but he is deceased.

12) The original plan, I believe, was to take only Sherrill and Suzie. Stacy threw the plan off and had to be improvised which is where the crime scene was staged IMO. I do not believe that three women would pile all three of their purses up on the steps to Suzie's bedroom. They, were, IMO, taken from the house, searched and then returned at a later time.

13) The opportunity to take any or all of them was between about 11:15 PM to about 5:45 AM, just shortly before twilight. There is no known (to my knowledge) that Sherrill's whereabouts was known after 11:15PM. It is entirely possible that she was taken prior to the girls arrivals although the common understanding is that all three were taken at the same time.

14) Whoever did this knew what he was doing. The crime scene was staged, in my opinion, in such a way as to throw off the investigation. That required, IMO, someone with LE knowledge of crime scene investigations. Draw your own conclusions.

15) I disregard the initial visitors and all that were there that day as having any involvement, no matter how ill conceived were their actions.

I will leave it here for now. Thread #1 is perhaps the most informative of the threads. I would suggest rereading the postings of Hurricane and Trooogrit. I know them and they did some extensive work on the case. I would also reread "Max Trollbot" over on Reddit. His account is virtually identical to what a military analyst provided me some time back. I'll think of more later I'm sure.

Thank you very much Missouri Mule for sharing this detailed information .
I believe that sherrill stacy and suzie were shot and murdered quite fast after the kidnapping.

 

[Missouri Mule]

"The abduction leader probably was an acquaintance 'who may have known their comings and goings"

"I think they (other people) were brought into this not knowing what was going to happen. It's quite possible that the primary person did not know what was going to happen"

Seems like it. Maybe they hired a hitman or "crew" to just "scare them" (phone calls, broken porch light) and things went south.

I live in a very pleasant and family friendly city in SE U.S. There's been one homicide in our history prior to last month, where a psychotic ex-wife hired a hitman to kill her ex-husband's new fiance(e?).

This has always confused me.

What is the distinction between the "abduction leader" and the "primary person?"

Someone help me with this, please.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thank you very much Missouri Mule for sharing this detailed information .

I believe that sherrill stacy and suzie were shot and murdered quite fast after the kidnapping.

I totally agree.