Mitigating Factor: Casey's Parents

[sleutherontheside]

I suppose they could show control or domination by another person (CA), but overall, I think any plan to use G and C as mitigating factors is not going to go very far. Despite it all, despite her gum chewing and yammering and obvious lack of superior intellect, there really isn't a paper trail or concrete proof that I know of that shows them to be emotionally or physically abusive to Casey (other than the throtteling, which in my mind, I can't say I wouldn't be tempted to do the same if my kid stole from my elder parents). But all we really have about abuse is a lot of he said / she said speculation (of course, it might very well be true that C is a push-around, helicopter mom) but who's gonna come forward and say she was a terrible influence on Casey to the point she'd kill her own child? All the state would have to do to knock that out of the water is hold up a picture of Caylee's room, show the website that she wrote about her being missing, and point to the memorial video that she put together (which, lets not forget, she was generous enough to share with the public, the very same public that's been beating her like a dog since the very beginning of all this. If I were her, I'd have told everyone to go blow, and I'd have had a closed door private ceremony). I don't think it's gonna fly. She may not be a brilliant shining star of a mother, she may have her faults (and although we are quite sure her faults were damaging to Casey) there's simply no real proof of the kind of abuse or neglect that would drive someone to murder their own child. The fact that to this day, she's still sitting behind her daughter in court every time she's brought in, shows something. There are a lot worse parents out there than G and C. JMO.

I don't think that the penalty phase of this trial will focus on any one factor as their mitigation argument. The penalty phase will be spent trying to "humanize" KC, paint her as someone that got to this place via a number of circumstances that may or may not have been in her control. Part of mitigation is to paint a story that shows the defendant as human and worthy of living. Her parents could factor intot his phase in several ways.....not all bad. Part of mitigation is to show the good in someone, to show that they were not all bad, that they are someones daughter, sister, friend.....AL can use her parents to paint a picture of KC as loving while also exposing the dysfunction within the family unit. The social workers and investigators are working to unearth any usable info for this phase. SO while it may seem that using the family in mitigation is only a negative, it can also be used as a positive. Case in point.......a daughter accused of a heinous crime, the murder of her daughter, the grandchild of these two parties........is still being shown outward support against all odds and evidence. There shows evidence that even these grieving grandparents value their daughter's life. It could be quite compelling to some jurors, as well as nauseating to others. JMO

 

[OneLostGrl]

I think people are grasping at straws.. she claims she didn't do it. Even if she's found guilty she will claim she didn't do it. Serial killers try to blame their "bad parents" for their own "bad actions" and it simply doesn't work. Jury's aren't idiots, they know people have choices.

 

[DaughterAlice]

I think people are grasping at straws.. she claims she didn't do it. Even if she's found guilty she will claim she didn't do it. Serial killers try to blame their "bad parents" for their own "bad actions" and it simply doesn't work. Jury's aren't idiots, they know people have choices.

BBM

AND YET . . . . they keep trying. What will make this case any different?

I think that when/if it comes to the penalty phase, there will be a whole lot of "grasping at straws."

 

[wenwe4]

I think people are grasping at straws.. she claims she didn't do it. Even if she's found guilty she will claim she didn't do it. Serial killers try to blame their "bad parents" for their own "bad actions" and it simply doesn't work. Jury's aren't idiots, they know people have choices.

Keyword "penalty phase". A good defense team will grasp at anything to keep the dp off the table. This just goes to the mitigating factors that the defense is required to present to the court. An effective counsel must include the psycho-social history of the defendant, and there are facts that can be produced to provide a better understanding of patterns of behavior in KC's past that have relevance to the crime she is being accused/convicted of.
These laws are there to protect everyone. For instance, there are mitigating factors about culpability - age and understanding of the consequences of their actions. Someone who has a low IQ, previous brain trauma, or is very young probably do not have the understanding of "bad actions and choices" like many other adults do. We would probably not want to convict an 8 year old child to death for the death of a peer - due to lack of culpability.

 

[BellaBlue]

I don't post on these threads....but I read them oh so very much. I don't know the Anthony Family or anyone else involved in any of this. I do however have a daughter who has been diagnoised with Borderline Personality Disorder. I make no excuses for anyone...I read all I can about this particular ailment. I have so often stated to my own daughter...you are so like Casey Anthony....oh wow...this is so hard to say out loud....yet so much of what Casey Anthony has done is no different than what my own daughter has done with the exception of killing her own daughter. Thankfully....my daughter has had no children. I am not here to make any excuses for what George or Cindy Anthony have done regarding their daughter. Most days I can't even imagine how they can stand behind their daughter. But at the same time....I guess somewhere in my heart I understand. No one wants to believe that their own child could be capable of such a horrendous crime. Not someone we loved and who lived in our own home. If anyone would have asked me if my own daughter would have lied to me over her employment or stealing from us...I would have never believed it could happen in our family....but actually we are no different from this family. I just thank God everyday that a child was not a part of our disfunction....I apologize ahead of time for my spelling or use of words....I just maybe see a side of this that most people don't have to see....I have no doubt inside that Casey Anothony didn't do this to her precious daughter....I just also see how her parents refuse to accept this.

 

[wenwe4]

I don't post on these threads....but I read them oh so very much. I don't know the Anthony Family or anyone else involved in any of this. I do however have a daughter who has been diagnoised with Borderline Personality Disorder. I make no excuses for anyone...I read all I can about this particular ailment. I have so often stated to my own daughter...you are so like Casey Anthony....oh wow...this is so hard to say out loud....yet so much of what Casey Anthony has done is no different than what my own daughter has done with the exception of killing her own daughter. Thankfully....my daughter has had no children. I am not here to make any excuses for what George or Cindy Anthony have done regarding their daughter. Most days I can't even imagine how they can stand behind their daughter. But at the same time....I guess somewhere in my heart I understand. No one wants to believe that their own child could be capable of such a horrendous crime. Not someone we loved and who lived in our own home. If anyone would have asked me if my own daughter would have lied to me over her employment or stealing from us...I would have never believed it could happen in our family....but actually we are no different from this family. I just thank God everyday that a child was not a part of our disfunction....I apologize ahead of time for my spelling or use of words....I just maybe see a side of this that most people don't have to see....I have no doubt inside that Casey Anothony didn't do this to her precious daughter....I just also see how her parents refuse to accept this.

Thank you for sharing such difficult struggles. I am so sorry for what you must have undoubtedly had to endure. Thankfully, you have been able to finally find out why your daughter behaved the way she did. I agree that KC also displays many traits of bpd, so do other family members. The fire and ice, I hate you/don't leave me (also a name of a book reference), and the black and white thinking of bpd. Either you have value or you of absolutely no value. You cannot be a good person with a few flaws in the mind of a person who struggles with bpd. You are either for them or against them - there is no gray area - if you have doubts - throw them out, sort of mentality in my experience.

 

[BellaBlue]

No,....I can honestly say I wish I did know why my own daughter has acted out in the ways that she has... She was raised the same as my other daughter who is a 911 dispatcher. They both were loved beyond measure. yet they turned out so different. Mental illness doesn't always follow a blueprint....it would be so much simplier if it did. Like I said...I know no one invovled in this case....I have no answers to any of this. I do have questions....in my own life...in my own daughter's life....and in this case....in Casey's life...and her parents' life. I just wish we all would have all had the answers before such a innocent life was lost.

 

[Searchfortruth]

No,....I can honestly say I wish I did know why my own daughter has acted out in the ways that she has... She was raised the same as my other daughter who is a 911 dispatcher. They both were loved beyond measure. yet they turned out so different. Mental illness doesn't always follow a blueprint....it would be so much simplier if it did. Like I said...I know no one invovled in this case....I have no answers to any of this. I do have questions....in my own life...in my own daughter's life....and in this case....in Casey's life...and her parents' life. I just wish we all would have all had the answers before such a innocent life was lost.

Thank you so much for sharing this. Too often I have failed to really put myself, as a mother of two daughters Casey's age, in the shoes of her parents. It is easy for me to judge, when I know that if it was my daughter I would be heartbroken beyond repair. I do know myself enough to say I could not support her lies day in and day out like this, especially a lie of this magnitude. But, their shoes I would not want to wear under any circumstances.

 

[BellaBlue]

I never supported my daughter's lies either... Yet was so shocked daily as they were forced upon me..... How this my daughter...the one that I had...the one that I love so deeply beyond words.....the one who was made from me....words just can't explain...what the heart won't allow. Sometimes what is real...is just too much for our mere hearts to accept.....does this make sense??? Again I am not taking up for anyone....just expressing what my own heart is feeling and not from the same circumstances at all.... if that makes any sense...

 

[OneLostGrl]

Keyword "penalty phase". A good defense team will grasp at anything to keep the dp off the table. This just goes to the mitigating factors that the defense is required to present to the court. An effective counsel must include the psycho-social history of the defendant, and there are facts that can be produced to provide a better understanding of patterns of behavior in KC's past that have relevance to the crime she is being accused/convicted of. These laws are there to protect everyone. For instance, there are mitigating factors about culpability - age and understanding of the consequences of their actions. Someone who has a low IQ, previous brain trauma, or is very young probably do not have the understanding of "bad actions and choices" like many other adults do. We would probably not want to convict an 8 year old child to death for the death of a peer - due to lack of culpability.

Bold is mine-

This defendant has no history of mental illness.. nor does her mother, her father, or her brother (I think an Aunt has Bipolar and not an official dx). Her brother also seems to be able to grasp the basic concept of right from wrong regardless of how they were raised. I get culpability... I get the laws are there to protect everyone- society and the criminal and I'm thankful for that- I'm a felon. My point is, a person who is coddled and their bad acts excused and covered up their whole life by lousy parents, (and has no brain damage or low IQ or history of mental illness) absolutely understands right from wrong and that if they commit a crime they will be held accountable. She's not 8, she's a grown woman with a full working brain.. everybody knows you can't go around killing people regardless of how sh!tty you were raised. Can you imagine if that's how the world worked? We could all run around killing people and blaming our parents. I have a history of mental illness, a sh!tty parent and drug addiction and I faced my crimes, as everyone who commits a crime should!

I don't see her getting death for her crime ( if she killed her daughter) but I don't believe in the death penalty anyway so if that's what she'd get "away with" for having lousy parents, that's fine with me.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't post on these threads....but I read them oh so very much. I don't know the Anthony Family or anyone else involved in any of this. I do however have a daughter who has been diagnoised with Borderline Personality Disorder. I make no excuses for anyone...I read all I can about this particular ailment. I have so often stated to my own daughter...you are so like Casey Anthony....oh wow...this is so hard to say out loud....yet so much of what Casey Anthony has done is no different than what my own daughter has done with the exception of killing her own daughter. Thankfully....my daughter has had no children. I am not here to make any excuses for what George or Cindy Anthony have done regarding their daughter. Most days I can't even imagine how they can stand behind their daughter. But at the same time....I guess somewhere in my heart I understand. No one wants to believe that their own child could be capable of such a horrendous crime. Not someone we loved and who lived in our own home. If anyone would have asked me if my own daughter would have lied to me over her employment or stealing from us...I would have never believed it could happen in our family....but actually we are no different from this family. I just thank God everyday that a child was not a part of our disfunction....I apologize ahead of time for my spelling or use of words....I just maybe see a side of this that most people don't have to see....I have no doubt inside that Casey Anothony didn't do this to her precious daughter....I just also see how her parents refuse to accept this.

It is very brave of you to share. Thank you!

 

[OneLostGrl]

I never supported my daughter's lies either... Yet was so shocked daily as they were forced upon me..... How this my daughter...the one that I had...the one that I love so deeply beyond words.....the one who was made from me....words just can't explain...what the heart won't allow. Sometimes what is real...is just too much for our mere hearts to accept.....does this make sense??? Again I am not taking up for anyone....just expressing what my own heart is feeling and not from the same circumstances at all.... if that makes any sense...

My mother denied mine.. even as I stood in front of her and admitted them to her. She would cover for me if I killed someone, of that I have little doubt.

 

[BellaBlue]

I don't mean to be misunderstood...I don't attempt to make excuses for Casey Anthony or my own daughter....or anyone else for that matter. there are just different things that make up reasons for everything that happens in life. I guess. I don't begin to understand any of them. My heart breaks for how my own daughter's life has turned out...yet I am so thankful...it has not turned out as Casey Anthony's life has turned out. No matter what anyone tells me I still can not explain how a mother can cause her own child's death. But I do accept that there are things in life I can not explain. There are things in life that are just evil...I get that...but there are also things in life that are of mental problems...that I get too....It is not an excuse...but a cause I think.... Please forgive me for being I guess what you would call as simple minded....I come here for all the great minds that come together to find answers to all these impossible questions...

 

[OneLostGrl]

I don't mean to be misunderstood...I don't attempt to make excuses for Casey Anthony or my own daughter....or anyone else for that matter. there are just different things that make up reasons for everything that happens in life. I guess. I don't begin to understand any of them. My heart breaks for how my own daughter's life has turned out...yet I am so thankful...it has not turned out as Casey Anthony's life has turned out. No matter what anyone tells me I still can not explain how a mother can cause her own child's death. But I do accept that there are things in life I can not explain. There are things in life that are just evil...I get that...but there are also things in life that are of mental problems...that I get too....It is not an excuse...but a cause I think.... Please forgive me for being I guess what you would call as simple minded....I come here for all the great minds that come together to find answers to all these impossible questions...

I hope you don't think my post about Casey's trial was toward you. I know that good parents have children who end up with problems too. I wasn't refering to you or your relationship with your daughter.. I'm so sorry if you thought I was. I'd never just assume a person is a bad parent simply because they have a mentally ill child. You have great courage to come here and open up to us the way you have, I admire that! :blowkiss:

 

[PaulaF513]

Your posts are far from simple minded. You sound like a thoughtful, empathectic mother, who is struggling with something that is beyond your control. I've walked that path for many years with my son. It's like being lost in the woods, in the dark, in a freezing rainstorm....and you hear animals growling and your chest begins to hurt because your heart is pounding like a drum. You pray and pray and the prayers never seem to be answered. You wrack your brain for memories of what you did in the past that could explain how this happened. Even though rationally, you know differently, something inside nags at you that it's somehow your fault. It's a mother thing. How does one cope when someone they utterly love kills someone they utterly love?

 

[autumnlover]

I think the reason the A's don't stand a chance of garnering sympathy with the jury is not simply because of their denial. I think it's because they have managed to turn a nation against them by their horrific behavior. I have no doubt that if - heaven forbid - my son committed a murder I would make a public statement stating my support for my son, that I love him and believe him to be innocent (whether I secretly did or not). I would then crawl back under my rock until he went to trial, come what may. Instead, the A's have made a spectacle of themselves and turned thousands of people against them (witness the negative outpouring of e-mail to LKL). If they can turn off thousands just by being them, there's no reason to assume they won't turn off 12, IMO. I can just picture the cross of CA. You think her depo with Morgan was bad? She won't be able to contain herself.

I don't think JB is a genius, I think he has not been able to prevent the A's from pontificating - no one can (think Nejame).

 

[autumnlover]

I don't mean to be misunderstood...I don't attempt to make excuses for Casey Anthony or my own daughter....or anyone else for that matter. there are just different things that make up reasons for everything that happens in life. I guess. I don't begin to understand any of them. My heart breaks for how my own daughter's life has turned out...yet I am so thankful...it has not turned out as Casey Anthony's life has turned out. No matter what anyone tells me I still can not explain how a mother can cause her own child's death. But I do accept that there are things in life I can not explain. There are things in life that are just evil...I get that...but there are also things in life that are of mental problems...that I get too....It is not an excuse...but a cause I think.... Please forgive me for being I guess what you would call as simple minded....I come here for all the great minds that come together to find answers to all these impossible questions...

You're not at all simple-minded. You're a strong, brave person. I appreciate your posts and welcome you to WS! :wave:

 

[wenwe4]

I would just again like to thank all of you for sharing some of your deepest pains. I can only offer that your life experiences are extremely valuable to all of us. Warts and all, we are human, we do our best with what we have, and learn to cope and move on from where we are - and that makes us survivors. Walking rough paths are not pleasant and sometimes it seems like more than we can handle, but knowing we are not alone in our pain is helpful. I know that bad things happen to good people. And I know there are many paths to the top of the mountain.

 

[Pattymarie]

I don't post on these threads....but I read them oh so very much. I don't know the Anthony Family or anyone else involved in any of this. I do however have a daughter who has been diagnoised with Borderline Personality Disorder. I make no excuses for anyone...I read all I can about this particular ailment. I have so often stated to my own daughter...you are so like Casey Anthony....oh wow...this is so hard to say out loud....yet so much of what Casey Anthony has done is no different than what my own daughter has done with the exception of killing her own daughter. Thankfully....my daughter has had no children. I am not here to make any excuses for what George or Cindy Anthony have done regarding their daughter. Most days I can't even imagine how they can stand behind their daughter. But at the same time....I guess somewhere in my heart I understand. No one wants to believe that their own child could be capable of such a horrendous crime. Not someone we loved and who lived in our own home. If anyone would have asked me if my own daughter would have lied to me over her employment or stealing from us...I would have never believed it could happen in our family....but actually we are no different from this family. I just thank God everyday that a child was not a part of our disfunction....I apologize ahead of time for my spelling or use of words....I just maybe see a side of this that most people don't have to see....I have no doubt inside that Casey Anothony didn't do this to her precious daughter....I just also see how her parents refuse to accept this.

What? (bolded by me) This doesn't make sense...you think that Casey did not do this...so what are you saying her parents refuse to accept?

 

[kushka]

For the most part, I think the Anthonys were a pretty average family, with typical problems revolving relationships and finances.

CA was a horribly abusive Mother, and I am surprised people don’t realize just how abusive she was.

One thing that has hit me is how hard she has worked to make KC such a socially lacking person that she would never allow to grownup and be free of CA. For example CA really worked hard at driving off KC friends. Didn’t her childhood friend who was Hispanic say that she wasn’t allowed to visit, and didn’t Jessie say that CA was always bad mouthing KC and trying to make KC look like a failure in his eyes? Richard Pasley said that CA said KC was a sociopath, which may be true, but if your child had a mental illness would you tell her friends? The only reason CA had to say that was to drive him off. The first time she spoke to AL she told him KC would take him for all his money, she obviously wasn’t telling him that because she liked him and wanted to protect him, she was telling him that to drive a wedge in his relationship to KC. That is the same reason she told Amy KC was a thief, she obviously was not trying to protect Amy either, we know that, since CA that same day stole Amy’s money from KC pocket book to keep for herself.

I could well see KC defense using CA mistreatment of her as mitigation during the sentencing phase of the trail. I do hope that KC never is let out of prison because she is obviously damaged beyond redemption, but I believe CA is responsible for damaging her.