GUILTY MN - George Floyd, 46, died in custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #19 - Chauvin Jury Deliberations #2

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oceanblueeyes said:
Thank you for your local perspective. It is much appreciated.

Yes, I'm worried EN does have enough to prove jury intimidation from the very start actually, and they will convict no doubt.

I pray it's based solely on the evidence presented to them, but they are also human, and already knows what will happen if they don't. Threats, and intimidation that's been made only causes more problems.

This case is different than other cases no doubt.

That's why I wish everyone had waited for the jury to render their verdict first. Sadly that hasn't happened, and its opened a huge can of worms for the case to be overturned on appeal even if convicted.

Thank you also for the local info you've provided to my questions.

Jmho
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Yep...can you imagine being taken back to your hotel and on every street corner there are national guard tanks and sharp shooters on the roof of the building you have been in all day? I would not even consider going "downtown" anymore ...day or night.
 
turaj said:
Yep...can you imagine being taken back to your hotel and on every street corner there are national guard tanks and sharp shooters on the roof of the building you have been in all day? I would not even consider going "downtown" anymore ...day or night.
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I hear ya, I totally do. But the entire country experienced protests for months and months. Minneapolis was on fire - and all 50 states responded too - and the jury members certainly were not shielded from that. The jury members knew this was a huge case when they were seated on the jury. I think we are all grossly underestimating the jury. Unless proven otherwise, the jury understands there is media coverage, they understand there are strong emotions, they understand there are huge societal issues involved. They already know all this - even with the recent case in Brooklyn Center, this is not new situation to them.

Unless proven otherwise, I think the jury can isolate the evidence presented in court about what happened between GF and DC on the day GF died.

jmo
 
The jury includes a chemist, a nurse, an auditor and a grandmother. It’s a racially mixed group – with six people who are white and six who identify as Black or multiracial. Almost all had seen the bystander video of Floyd before the trial, pinned on the street that fanned worldwide outrage. And some have ties to police. Those who listened through three weeks of testimony said before they were seated that they could set aside any prior views of former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin’s conduct and decide the case based on evidence. One legal expert said waiting for a jury verdict can seem like “the longest hours of any day.”

Verdict watch: Jury deliberations in Derek Chauvin trial resume in Minneapolis
 
JerseyGirl said:
The jury includes a chemist, a nurse, an auditor and a grandmother. It’s a racially mixed group – with six people who are white and six who identify as Black or multiracial. Almost all had seen the bystander video of Floyd before the trial, pinned on the street that fanned worldwide outrage. And some have ties to police. Those who listened through three weeks of testimony said before they were seated that they could set aside any prior views of former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin’s conduct and decide the case based on evidence. One legal expert said waiting for a jury verdict can seem like “the longest hours of any day.”

Verdict watch: Jury deliberations in Derek Chauvin trial resume in Minneapolis
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I hope the grandmother is the foreperson.

jmo
 
SouthAussie said:
It will be very sad if the protests and protection are given as a reason for an appeal.

It is not George's fault that the protests are happening, and the protection is needed. It is Chauvin's fault. imo
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MOO, Or as the defense states, it's his drug use, his big heart, and the angry mobs fault :eek::confused::( <-- those are sarcasm
 
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JerseyGirl said:
With Minneapolis on edge amid fears of fresh civil unrest related to the verdict, the court has said it will not announce a verdict late in the day, avoiding potential protests at night.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/19/derek-chauvin-trial-2/?outputType=amp
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Media is alerted once verdict reached, they have one hour to assemble for verdict reading, so looks like we won't get a verdict today unless Jury finishes by early afternoon. I don't think we will have verdict today.
I had heard yesterday that schools will start virtual learning on Wednesday, so it seemed that city officials didn't expect a verdict until at least Wed or later. Looks like they were right.
 
I found it interesting about this Blakely hearing. This decision to let the judge decide I think is a good one but to me it shows that defense is not optimistic about the jury having any sympathy for DC. The sentences for all of these crimes are below what I would want for this heinous crime and I think there are many factors that would justify not giving anywhere near the minimum and maybe more than max.
 
turaj said:
I found it interesting about this Blakely hearing. This decision to let the judge decide I think is a good one but to me it shows that defense is not optimistic about the jury having any sympathy for DC. The sentences for all of these crimes are below what I would want for this heinous crime and I think there are many factors that would justify not giving anywhere near the minimum and maybe more than max.
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I was thinking the same, they're all staring at each other for 3 weeks.. vibes may not be warm.. speculating.
 
Rhozwen said:
Media is alerted once verdict reached, they have one hour to assemble for verdict reading, so looks like we won't get a verdict today unless Jury finishes by early afternoon. I don't think we will have verdict today.
I had heard yesterday that schools will start virtual learning on Wednesday, so it seemed that city officials didn't expect a verdict until at least Wed or later. Looks like they were right.
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This jury needs some time to just share impressions etc. This is the first full day they can freely talk and then review witnesses and evidence. They have some very professional people...analytical in their thinking from what I heard in Voir Dire and some leaders in there for sure. Given no late in the day announcements it could be Thurs. morning if I had to take a guess.
 
Inthedetails said:
I hear ya, I totally do. But the entire country experienced protests for months and months. Minneapolis was on fire - and all 50 states responded too - and the jury members certainly were not shielded from that. The jury members knew this was a huge case when they were seated on the jury. I think we are all grossly underestimating the jury. Unless proven otherwise, the jury understands there is media coverage, they understand there are strong emotions, they understand there are huge societal issues involved. They already know all this - even with the recent case in Brooklyn Center, this is not new situation to them.

Unless proven otherwise, I think the jury can isolate the evidence presented in court about what happened between GF and DC on the day GF died.

jmo
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I agree with you---- it is a shame though that we all have to worry what happens if the crowd doesn't like the verdict
 
turaj said:
I think there is no question that Judge Cahill will get and has gotten threats....he has been pretty vocal about his feelings toward the City Council and now Waters....some of those views are not very welcome here in Minneapolis. His address in a nearby suburb is an easy google and I am sure he has high level security. Given Nelson is hired more or less by the Police Union he will no doubt protected too. But the jurors have been going home every night until now with no security. I too think Mr. Nelson will have enough for appeal. The judge seems to have outlined his appeal case already. Mr. Nelson mentioned already the threats to his life. He lives in south minneapolis...same general community where this went down. Each day as jurors come and go from courthouse and now are transported to their hotel they see the demonstrations...they were really large last night....they know what is riding on this verdict and in my opinion cannot eliminate that from their decision making.
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I agree that there's no question Judge Cahill has received threats. I doubt it's his first time, however, not at this level.
I also believe imo that those threats have influenced his decision not to call a mistrial, and more reason to kick the can down the road to take the heat off of him by telling Nelson that his concerns may be a reason for an appeal.
I also think he was out of line by telling Nelson that Waters comments will not affect the decision of the jury. IMO, her comments were prejudicial.
I think Nelson was right when he claimed the jury was not admonished properly on a daily basis.
I also agree with Nelson when he claimed the jury should have been sequestered. The judges rule "Do not talk to anyone" the last few days of trial was vague at best, and not watching the news does nothing when the jury drives home every day and sees the National Guard, Military Trucks, and double fences every step of the way.
 
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Inthedetails said:
I hear ya, I totally do. But the entire country experienced protests for months and months. Minneapolis was on fire - and all 50 states responded too - and the jury members certainly were not shielded from that. The jury members knew this was a huge case when they were seated on the jury. I think we are all grossly underestimating the jury. Unless proven otherwise, the jury understands there is media coverage, they understand there are strong emotions, they understand there are huge societal issues involved. They already know all this - even with the recent case in Brooklyn Center, this is not new situation to them.

Unless proven otherwise, I think the jury can isolate the evidence presented in court about what happened between GF and DC on the day GF died.

jmo
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Exactly in agreement. The details we know about the jury indicate an intelligent, diverse group who each bring something different to the table.

I'm trying to have great faith in the jury system, and my fellow humans, even though I think we live in dark times.

MOO

ETA:: Re jury sequestering. I think they should have been sequestered from Day One. I know it's incredibly difficult, but can you imagine, dealing with your family or whoever you live with, every night with that hanging around as a constant unwanted guest? I think I would sequester myself from any outsider influence, whatever it took, even if I had to stay a hotel on my own dime. This is a terribly serious responsibility. again MOO
 
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To me, there's an entire list of reasons for an appeal, imo.
One may be "inadequate defense." The state had an Army of attorneys while Nelson worked alone.
I've wondered from the start of this trial whether or not this was a strategy used intentionally by the defense for appellate purposes at a later date if Chauvin is convicted.
 
Rocky1 said:
I agree that there's no question Judge Cahill has received threats. I doubt it's his first time, however, not at this level.
I also believe imo that those threats have influenced his decision not to call a mistrial, but more to kick the can down the road to take the heat off of him by telling Nelson that his concerns may be a reason for an appeal.
I also think he was out of line by telling Nelson that Waters comments will not affect the decision of the jury. IMO, her comments were prejudicial.
I think Nelson was right when he claimed the jury was not admonished properly on a daily basis.
I also agree with Nelson when he claimed the jury should have been sequestered. The judges rule "Do not talk to anyone" the last few days of trial was vague at best, and not watching the news does nothing when the jury drives home every day and sees the National Guard, Military Trucks, and double fences every step of the way.
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The jury members are not a naive, sheltered group who are shocked to see the city prepared for this verdict. They are from Minneapolis - they have seen the past 12 months first hand. They have seen trucks, guards, boarded up buildings, people in the streets - it's not as if they are wondering what is going on while they are in the courthouse.

Unless we find out otherwise (not just hand wringing), I think the jury are mature adults living in current times and understand their job is to look at the evidence about the day in question. If they are not capable of that, then we don't have a judicial system.

If they feel threatened, they need to tell the judge.

jmo
 
Inthedetails said:
The jury members are not a naive, sheltered group who are shocked to see the city prepared for this verdict. They are from Minneapolis - they have seen the past 12 months first hand. They have seen trucks, guards, boarded up buildings, people in the streets - it's not as if they are wondering what is going on while they are in the courthouse.

Unless we find out otherwise (not just hand wringing), I think the jury are mature adults living in current times and understand their job is to look at the evidence about the day in question. If they are not capable of that, then we don't have a judicial system.

If they feel threatened, they need to tell the judge.

jmo
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I am not naive or sheltered at all...live and spend time in Minneapolis and while we have had some riots and curfews around the GF murder..in general in most areas of the city things look normal...so I do think these sights have an impact...most of us living away from the center never go downtown...I recall only a few of the jurors were or had lived in the 38th and Chicago area...and that was before it got so violent down there. Yes Jurors are mature adults but the current optics in the area where they are could be impactful.
 
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