MN - George Floyd, unarmed man killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020

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Charlot123 said:
Sadly, I can remember several cases when citizens, of different races, died in police custody from “positional asphyxia” - this is how what happened to Mr. George Floyd is called in medical terms.

- How is police training organized that situations like this even happen?

- in contrast to other cases I remember, Mr. Floyd appeared strong and healthy. How hard do you have to push on someone’s neck, chest and diaphragm to smother, for lack of a better term, a tall and visibly healthy man?

- Was it really necessary for the articles to mention that Mr. Floyd had spent 5 years in prison? He paid his debt for the society and until COVID, he was gainfully employed.

- How much does the policemen’s own fear contributes to situations like this?

RIP, Mr. Floyd.
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Tutter said:
If the criminals are allowed to overthrow the police precincts, what will become of us?
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CrimeDawg123 said:
Based on their charging document, the autopsy did not reveal a link between DC's actions and Mr. Floyd's death wrt strangulation. I think that is what the DA meant when he made that comment the other day about the evidence. I agree with you that DC's actions warrant a higher charge, but I want him to be found guilty. If that requires 3rd degree charge, then I guess that'll have to do. I just can not stand to see another *** ex-cop walk free.
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I heard a pundit - lawyer on MSNBC say that she thinks they need a 2nd autopsy: this one is fishy to me. How did he not die from asphyxia???? the autopsy read like an ME that was trying to help out the defendant. could be wrong but that is the way i see it.
 
https://www.kare11.com/article/news...-second-degree-manslaughter-in-minnesota/89-6

Description of third degree murder and second degree manslaughter. Third degree is when there is no intent or premediation. Mohamed Noor was charged with 2nd degree but the jury convicted him of third degree. It is very very difficult if not impossible to convict a police officer of first degree, even 2nd degree. How many police officers have been acquitted when we know they committed murder ( thank Abadou Diallo in New York in 1999) Four officers were acquitted and that is just one case.
 
MsBetsy said:
Good point. It sounds like he yanked him out of the car just so he could throw him on the ground and abuse him. Another officer asked if they should turn him over and the officer said no. I would think it would have been easier to breathe on his back, without his chest pushed down against the pavement.

I don't know why the officer wasn't charged with murder with intent and premeditation.

Has anyone posted his mugshot yet? I haven't seen it.
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As to positioning, I stated earlier that I regularly receive training in First Aid and CPR for the Professional Rescuer (can be found who it is appropriate for online). My training is meant for police officers as well. The officer who asked about placing on his side was actually utilizing the training that I have experienced. Mr. Floyd said he was claustrophobic and stated he couldn't breathe before he was moved near the squad cars. It is at that moment that the (I can't call them officers anymore) accused killers should have called 911. Breathing issues can signify a heart attack or asthma attack, both of which can cascade quickly. Instead, they moved him toward a car where he repeated his physical complaint. Placing him prone while handcuffed and stacking human body weight on him would only make it harder for him to breathe regardless of a breathing event or cardiac event. The killers did not follow any training in rendering aid that they had to have in order to be out on the street policing. In fact, the one who asked the questions and requested to see if he had a pulse actually joined the force either in 2017 or 2019 so he was closer to training hypothetically as all need to be re-certified every two years.

After Mr. Floyd was in arrest, not a single one of these killers rendered him CPR/rescue breathing or anything that might have made it possible that he could survive. Also against their training and their duty. They called for EMTs after he had stopped breathing for a few minutes--which insured that he would not survive. It is murder plain and simple. The situation was not chaotic and they can't claim they had not time to think because they sat their bodies on this man for many minutes without him resisting--how could he with hundreds of pounds of weight on his body. It is just barbaric and devoid of human empathy.

I do think that they should be charged with murder with intent just based on their aid training.

The mug shot has been on MSM but I have not seen it here. I won't post this man's face as it is the face of evil to me.
 
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

People asking why 3rd degree, it is because in MN, Second Degree murder is specifically for drive-bys and domestic murders, with the above being the wording for what most of us see as second degree murder. First degree is reserved for premeditated murder, murder of public officials, murder while committing a felony like rape or grand theft. I am not sure if showing he had sufficient knowledge that his actions could cause death would be enough technically, even though the brutality itself could be seen as assault. I personally struggle to see how they can find a single juror who is not a racist that wont convict Chauvin, regardless of the charge.
 
Vail said:
609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.
(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

People asking why 3rd degree, it is because in MN, Second Degree murder is specifically for drive-bys and domestic murders, with the above being the wording for what most of us see as second degree murder. First degree is reserved for premeditated murder, murder of public officials, murder while committing a felony like rape or grand theft. I am not sure if showing he had sufficient knowledge that his actions could cause death would be enough technically, even though the brutality itself could be seen as assault. I personally struggle to see how they can find a single juror who is not a racist that wont convict Chauvin, regardless of the charge.
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Mohamed Noor was charged with 2nd degree murder in the killing of Justine Damond: the jury convicted him of 3rd degree. IMO you will never get a jury to contact a cop of first degree murder. I think in this case they should have charged 2nd degree with the hope of getting third degree at the least. I posted an article as to why it is very difficult to get convictions of police officers in these horrible situations.
 
kaen said:
I would imagine the issues are devastation, family safety as well as protection of any assets she has. There will be a civil lawsuit coming the murderer's way and one that will probably be easily won. They have 2 houses and other assets I am sure. I can only imagine the pain she is feeling knowing that someone she lived with was such a monster.
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Yep, and looking back at her statement of how he was just a softie and he fit all the boxes she wanted.......

Imo, this is a case of someone showing a person what they want them to see, but eventually they can't help but showing who they really are. People can't hide their true selves forever.
 
Delete, double post
 
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kaen said:
Lane asked,“should we roll him on his side?” and the defendant said, “No, staying put where we got him.” Officer Lane
said, “I am worried about excited delirium or whatever.” The defendant said, “That’s why we have him on his
stomach.”

8:25:31 the video appears to show Mr. Floyd ceasing to breathe or speak. Lane said, “want to roll him on
his side.” Kueng checked Mr. Floyd’s right wrist for a pulse and said, “I couldn’t find one.” None of the
officers moved from their positions.

One of them (Lane) had some sense but deferred to the veterans. Then, they knew he had no pulse and didn't render CPR or anything but remained in their positions. They should all be charged.
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That's right, recovery position is always on the side. And I also read that when someone didn't find a R radial pulse, that Chauvin kept kneeling on him for 2 minutes and some seconds. There was no attempt to check carotid pulses or initiate CPR.
 
Ray_of_hope said:
That's right, recovery position is always on the side. And I also read that when someone didn't find a R radial pulse, that Chauvin kept kneeling on him for 2 minutes and some seconds. There was no attempt to check carotid pulses or initiate CPR.
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ITA. If the idea was to use this "restraint" method in order to render him unconscious then as soon as he was they should have turned him on his side.
 
Cubby said:
Maybe you missed how gushy she was about him in 2018.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/wife-of-cop-in-george-floyds-death-once-wrote-a-bad-check/
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Victims of abuse can be gushy as a way of avoiding further abuse. Their gushiness gives the abuser the sense that they are revered, loved and in control of their partner.

That said, I am less inclined to think she was a victim of abuse. I think her horror at the video of his actions is totally real. Standing by him would paint her and her family as horrible. And, they have 2 homes and other assets that will surely be at risk.
 
ilovewings said:
I heard a pundit - lawyer on MSNBC say that she thinks they need a 2nd autopsy: this one is fishy to me. How did he not die from asphyxia???? the autopsy read like an ME that was trying to help out the defendant. could be wrong but that is the way i see it.
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This may sound odd, but perhaps George Floyd simply had the sensation that he couldn't breath. I mean, he wasn't gasping for breath while barely getting his words out. His speaking was relatively normal over a period of minutes, even though he repeatedly said he couldn't breath. I've heard that pepper spray has that effect on some people. They definitely can breath, but their brain says, No.
 
kaen said:
People posted articles earlier about this type of "restraint", its dangers and the reasons that so few departments use it and other similar methods.

Minneapolis seems to have banned "warrior training" it in its training but the head of the police union vowed to use methods such as this --training people outside of the formal training.

(To be clear, training in this restraint was part of academy training when the killer went through.)

Warrior Training: "Experts say the training, which has been linked to high profile police-related killings around the country, including Philando Castille’s 2016 shooting death, also in Minnesota, often runs the risk of the use of unnecessary, and sometimes, fatal force:

This approach to policing is outdated and ineffective, says Stoughton, and, “some of it is dangerously wrong.” Samuel Walker, a criminal-justice professor and expert on police accountability, says the “Bulletproof Warrior” approach is “okay for Green Berets but unacceptable for domestic policing. The best police chiefs in the country don’t want anything to do with this.”

Citing the “killology” mentality, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Frey ultimately banned the training last year but the move infuriated Minneapolis Police Union President Lt. Bob Kroll. Shortly after the decision was announced, Kroll called the ban illegal and said that the union would continue to make the training available to any interested officers. “It’s not about killing, it’s about surviving,” Kroll said at the time." Minneapolis banned warrior-style police training. Its police union kept offering it anyway.
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I wonder if this would mean Kroll and the police union could be named in a wrongful death lawsuit. Especially since it was so recently Kroll ignored the ban on this type of restraint.
 
Cubby said:
Yep, and looking back at her statement of how he was just a softie and he fit all the boxes she wanted.......

Imo, this is a case of someone showing a person what they want them to see, but eventually they can't help but showing who they really are. People can't hide their true selves forever.
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I have family members who are current and past LEO. I have heard them speak about some of the vile humans they encountered on the force. Some of these people are seen as upstanding in their families and communities but are absolutely horrible when it comes to their policing in the communities in which they work. Some are across the board horrible humans.

The LEO in my family are good people, trying to do their best in jobs they chose and love. I am incensed at the inability of these institutions to police themselves and weed out these bad actors.

You are so right that you can't hide who you are forever. Alcohol and certain drugs are revealing of your true self. High stress situations are also very revealing. This killer had no shame or care about what he was doing. He was all very natural in all his action or inaction. He never appeared to question his actions or check on Mr. Floyd in the video. The arrest warrant cites his words as the younger officer questioned his action--he was matter of fact and devoid of any compassion or introspection about the situation they were in.
 
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Cubby said:
I wonder if this would mean Kroll and the police union could be named in a wrongful death lawsuit. Especially since it was so recently Kroll ignored the ban on this type of restraint.
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I also wonder. I would think the rank and file of the MPD would begin to look at their leadership and ask him to step down. What they do will signal how seriously they take the issue sparked the current lack of faith in their department? Haven't heard word one about it yet. Let's see if we do.
 
Tippy Lynn said:
Protesters descended on the home of the cop filmed pinning George Floyd down by his neck before his death — scrawling “murderer” in large letters at the end of his driveway.

https://nypost.com/2020/05/28/cop-who-pinned-george-floyd-has-murderer-scrawled-on-home/
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I'm confused by the language of a bill that is pending, the Emmitt Till Anti-Lynching Act. The way it's written, the language or definition of lynching seems so broad that even some of the protestors demonstrating against Floyd's unjust killing could conceivably be charged under the new law. IMOO, the entire system is in desperate need of reform. I just hope we don't start that reform with a law that's so vague that it allows for further abuses.

Here is a portion of one article:

"It would make lynching, defined as a conspiracy to commit a hate crime, a federal offense." Does anyone else see the potential for abuses using that definition? For one thing, it's much easier to convince a jury of conspiracy to commit a hate crime, because no follow-through is required. Using another example, if someone conspires to commit murder-for-hire, but they then back out and commit no murder, are they not innocent of a crime? Using the vague definition in the bill, it seems to me that there could be a very real possibility of the bill being used to convict the very underprivileged people it's supposed to protect. So much reform urgently needed!!

When I watched the video, I was horrified instantly. But when he cried out "Mamma!!", I don't have the words. If someone could watch and hear that and at least a part of their heart not break, well, I'm sorry, but IMHO, they've lost all shred of their humanity. AMOO
 
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