MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #5

[CanManEh]

Well thats exactlly what one guy says the guy with the police radio he says he pulled in to dr's drive way and backed out and its most likely his car tracks he told police that i don't know his name...not only that but arron says on the way TOO the tom thumb right where they were told to stop he heard a russling in the brush that scared him and that was on the way too the tom thumb which would mean h was in the bush before they went to tom thumb and waited till they come back...from everything i have read and heard i believe it was the guy that i think he was the neibhour is it david rassier the guy next door his parents were gone and who ever did it took jacob with no car i think it was him and he took him right back to his house ..

 

[human]

For those that think it is NOT DR, why not?

Why would LE choose him of all the choices we have proposed and probably others that we do not know?

Don't others seem far more enticing than DR?

So much better to choose ones that are poor and are not respected by the community such as the Bahners and DAH?

 

[shergal]

Shergal,
Thank you so much for doing this! Really insightful + helpful to understand Ben's explanation. Amazing. Your analysis makes his words plausible. I wonder if he was even closer tho to the abduction site given the darkness. I will have to study this in more depth.
Is there any documentation of when the boys left the house? I wonder how this map will fit into the time frame?

Here's part of a timeline, cGorg:

They arrived at Tom Thumb near 9 pm.
Abduction time was approx. 9:15 pm.
Police were searching by 10 pm.
(Sources linked below.)

Oct. 22, 1989: Eleven-year-old Jacob Erwin Wetterling is abducted by a masked gunman about 9:15 p.m. along 91st Avenue, southeast of St. Joseph. Firefighters and 35 officers from the Stearns County Sheriff’s Office and other law enforcement agencies search the area. Two local FBI agents and five from Minneapolis are assigned to the case. A state helicopter with a searchlight searches the nearby woods and fields. A command post is set up at Del-Win Ballroom in St. Joseph. Searches are called off at 3 a.m. until daybreak.
http://globegazette.com/jacob-wette...cle_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wetterling_jacob.html

By 10 P.M. police were already combing the site, and Stearns County Sheriff Charlie Grafft had called in a state police helicopter to join the town's volunteer fire department in the search. By midnight the FBI was on the case. Meanwhile, Patty was calling her neighbors, and Jerry was contacting his fellow members of the pacifist Baha'i faith, who started a telephone prayer tree. After hearing the news, Iverson arrived at the Wetterling house at 1:30 A.M. and just after dawn started phoning the local radio and TV stations. "We wanted people to know right away in the morning," Patty says, "so they could be looking for Jacob on their way to work." By 11 A.M., reporters were arriving on the scene en masse, and the abduction was blossoming into a full-scale media event.

http://www.people.com/people/archive/art...http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,201159

This link below was interesting to re-read. I found this old archive of a bunch of our posts from 2011 while searching for times. It's amazing how much "stuff" we have discovered and sorted through along the way.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-118670-p-2.html

 

[cGorg]

shergal,

thanks for that info! (I wish I had your sluething + posting skills). I have read those posts before but good to go back + review. I do want to read the Joe on the Run as I have not read that. My initial thought on the time line was the tight timeline between 8:40 and 9:15. Whoever the abductor(s) was/were had to get ready in this timeframe. If Ben's account is true and the boys arrived at Tom Thumb just before 9 then I wonder when they passed the abduction site on the way to Tom Thumb? If the abduction was at 9:15 then the boys could not have been long at the store as it would have taken at least 5-10 minutes to reach the abduction site. If it took 10 minutes to get to the store then the boys passed the abduction site after 8:40 so Ben did not see them on 16th as he was ahead of them. At 8:40 Ben gets ready to go home and sees MB + RB emerging from the woods then he walks north 'down the hill'. The woods-which woods are MB + RB emerging from? The woods on the east or west side of 16th? My theory is they emerged from the woods on the west side of the road, which makes sense that they could then be on that side of the road in the tall grass as the boys pass by-explaining the 'sound that shouldn't be there'. Those woods are very close to the abduction site AND the 'party spot' was in those woods. Why they were in these woods in the first place IDK. But if they had a vehicle parked just west of those woods they could have had time to run to that and drive north, east, and then south on 16th and park the car in DR's driveway and wait.

 

[CanManEh]

But from what I saw on youtube they didn't bother to go into the neibhours mr rassier's house or barn for something like 5 days they or he coulda been holding him in the house or inside that barn and no one woulda been the wisser..

 

[shergal]

shergal,

thanks for that info! (I wish I had your sluething + posting skills). I have read those posts before but good to go back + review. I do want to read the Joe on the Run as I have not read that. My initial thought on the time line was the tight timeline between 8:40 and 9:15. Whoever the abductor(s) was/were had to get ready in this timeframe. If Ben's account is true and the boys arrived at Tom Thumb just before 9 then I wonder when they passed the abduction site on the way to Tom Thumb? If the abduction was at 9:15 then the boys could not have been long at the store as it would have taken at least 5-10 minutes to reach the abduction site. If it took 10 minutes to get to the store then the boys passed the abduction site after 8:40 so Ben did not see them on 16th as he was ahead of them. At 8:40 Ben gets ready to go home and sees MB + RB emerging from the woods then he walks north 'down the hill'. The woods-which woods are MB + RB emerging from? The woods on the east or west side of 16th? My theory is they emerged from the woods on the west side of the road, which makes sense that they could then be on that side of the road in the tall grass as the boys pass by-explaining the 'sound that shouldn't be there'. Those woods are very close to the abduction site AND the 'party spot' was in those woods. Why they were in these woods in the first place IDK. But if they had a vehicle parked just west of those woods they could have had time to run to that and drive north, east, and then south on 16th and park the car in DR's driveway and wait.

I think "Joe on the run" is Diane M's brother. Joseph M. is on facebook. (Don't think I can link it here, but he is a local artist who makes "spirit" dolls.) When Jacob's case is brought up in our local paper, this Joe sometimes posts in comments directing people to view the stearnstruth videos on you tube. It's odd that they both seem to want to give out information, but don't want to tell anyone who "Lou" was.

 

[human]

This article has been posted before. But I noticed that none of the NG people asked what the "other items" were that were still being tested:

http://kstp.com/news/stories/s1765250.shtml

Sources tell KSTP.com, investigators removed several items from the farm, including a lawn chair, the base of a patio umbrella stand and a cedar chest. The items had been stored in an area above a four stall garage on the Rassier property.

We have also learned investigators seized a box from Daniel Rassier's bedroom containing news clippings and articles about the Jacob Wetterling abduction. That box also contained part of Rassier's journal.

Sources have confirmed to KSTP.com, during this summers two day search, investigators did not have a search warrant for the farm house, but rather just for the outbuildings and property. However, during that first day of the search investigators found enough evidence to go back to a judge and get a warrant for the farm house itself.

This is the third time the Rassier family farm has been searched, the first was immediately after the abduction, the second time was 6 years ago when investigators examined Daniel Rassier's computer.

Sources also confirm part of the reason why the farm was searched again this summer, was because new investigators took on the case and discovered evidence that had not been examined before. Another reason why investigators converged on the farm this summer is because of advances in technology.
---------------------
(I had for some reason down the line thought it was a coat rack that they took, but I guess not, it was an umbrella stand. Sorry for my confusion.)

 

[human]

From Sher's 2011 posts listed above. Talks about the discrepancies in DR's telling of what happened that night

Major discrepancy between the two videos... In the Julie Nelson interview Part One of (posted on the Joy Baker site) Rassier says he did not go back to bed but instead searched his property and went to bed very late. However, in the Twin City interview he says he went back to bed, what was he to do, he wasn't going to waste time...

I noticed the discrepancy too, as did several other members of the board. It sure makes one wonder which is the truth!!

Hard to believe they didn't search this guy's property until five days after JW went missing!! You would think this would be the FIRST place they looked through!! So why didn't they? Did they ask to search his property? Did he DENY them entry without a warrant?? If he has cooperated with interviews, hypnosis and polygraph testing previously, it would be hard to think he'd have denied them entry to his home that night had they asked for it.

 

[human]

From Sher's 2011 posts listed above. Talks about the discrepancies in DR's telling of what happened that night

Major discrepancy between the two videos... In the Julie Nelson interview Part One of (posted on the Joy Baker site) Rassier says he did not go back to bed but instead searched his property and went to bed very late. However, in the Twin City interview he says he went back to bed, what was he to do, he wasn't going to waste time...

I noticed the discrepancy too, as did several other members of the board. It sure makes one wonder which is the truth!!

Hard to believe they didn't search this guy's property until five days after JW went missing!! You would think this would be the FIRST place they looked through!! So why didn't they? Did they ask to search his property? Did he DENY them entry without a warrant?? If he has cooperated with interviews, hypnosis and polygraph testing previously, it would be hard to think he'd have denied them entry to his home that night had they asked for it.

 

[CanManEh]

So what do you all think was it rassier or no...Personaly I say yes maybe he had help but I think he is the one ...JMO

 

[cGorg]

From Sher's 2011 posts listed above. Talks about the discrepancies in DR's telling of what happened that night

Major discrepancy between the two videos... In the Julie Nelson interview Part One of (posted on the Joy Baker site) Rassier says he did not go back to bed but instead searched his property and went to bed very late. However, in the Twin City interview he says he went back to bed, what was he to do, he wasn't going to waste time...

I noticed the discrepancy too, as did several other members of the board. It sure makes one wonder which is the truth!!

Hard to believe they didn't search this guy's property until five days after JW went missing!! You would think this would be the FIRST place they looked through!! So why didn't they? Did they ask to search his property? Did he DENY them entry without a warrant?? If he has cooperated with interviews, hypnosis and polygraph testing previously, it would be hard to think he'd have denied them entry to his home that night had they asked for it.

I think the discrepancy is in the editing of the videos. DR actually made both statements: that he did go out and search and that he did go back to bed eventually. They spliced it to make him look bad. In addition, a policeman confirmed that DR talked to him at the abduction site. I don't trust TV interviews....they edit + splice so you never get the entire interview. I have been interviewed by newspaper reporters and sometimes don't recognize my own comments as they actually edited my own words!

 

[human]

I have no idea of course, but I cannot get over the idea that LE has selected him for all of this attention.

He fits thngs quite nicely in a lot of ways. Unmarried, living at home, works with kids, tells stories that are different about that night, has clippings about the kidnapping even though he appeared totally uninterested, has information that he feels is really important but is silly--the cars speeding in his driveway and coming back later that night, his availability by being outside and hearing the kids.

Maybe he is not a perv. Maybe he was just playing a joke that went horribly wrong.

Maybe it was a priest buddy who was visiting that night,

 

[human]

I think the discrepancy is in the editing of the videos. DR actually made both statements: that he did go out and search and that he did go back to bed eventually. They spliced it to make him look bad. In addition, a policeman confirmed that DR talked to him at the abduction site. I don't trust TV interviews....they edit + splice so you never get the entire interview. I have been interviewed by newspaper reporters and sometimes don't recognize my own comments as they actually edited my own words!

They cannot edit your words. They can leave out parts of things you said, but changing your actual wording, "No".

What about it was not worth his time could be misconstrued?

 

[cGorg]

For those that think it is NOT DR, why not?

Why would LE choose him of all the choices we have proposed and probably others that we do not know?

Don't others seem far more enticing than DR?

So much better to choose ones that are poor and are not respected by the community such as the Bahners and DAH?

That is a very good question and statement.
I have wondered about this dichotomy.

DR: I understand the circumstantial evidence against him, his quirkiness, odd behavior, and now defiance of LE. But if he is the perp, then how did he commit this crime? Where is the physical evidence? If LE is focussed on DR and they said he sounded guilty in his 911 call why didn't they save the call? They saved Merle's 911 call. I am not saying he could not have done it but I am not focussing on DR because the road leads nowhere. Being single, in your 50's, and living at your parents house is not evidence of a crime. He has spent years + years teaching children yet no complaints.

MB+RB: being poor does not mean a person cannot have decency and character. If the community disrespects these people is it because they are poor or is it because of their behavior? They have molested children in their midst. 4 of the family members are convicted sex offenders. In addition, released sex offenders in 1989 were living in halfway houses in the area. My focus is on people who have and had a propensity to commit such crimes.

Finally, I lean towards the perp in car versus perp on foot. In this situation, it seems the quickest and 'cleanest' method to abduct a child while leaving no physical evidence.

All of this of course is just my opinion.

 

[human]

I do not mean being poor means you are not decent. Being poor means you do not have resources. You cannot afford a fancy lawyer.

The Bahners have a terrible record. They have this theoretical Ben that places them at the scene. Why not select them as the POI? They seem perfect. I doubt if many would be upset that they are POI. Instead we see a community member with a good record as POI.

If people want to say that DR is a scapegoat for LE incompetency, why doesn't LE choose more suitable characters for the role? Certainly the Bahners or DAH fit much better for scapegoats

 

[cGorg]

human....you make very good points. I appreciate your candor. I have been reading these posts for a year now. Lots of things have been debated round + round. Whoever did this crime i don't know. What is needed now IMHO is verification of all this information that has been collected by all of you on this thread. I am amazed at people's abilities here but it seems now it needs sifting thru to find what is credible + what is not.

 

[cGorg]

human....you make very good points. I appreciate your candor. I have been reading these posts for a year now. Lots of things have been debated round + round. Whoever did this crime i don't know. What is needed now IMHO is verification of all this information that has been collected by all of you on this thread. I am amazed at people's abilities here but it seems now it needs sifting thru to find what is credible + what is not.

 

[human]

I do not know how to get what is credible or not. People can say anything and they do. They make up stuff.

I was reading the search warrant in the Hannah Anderson case and it says right in there that they are holding back how the mother died because of people calling in an saying they did it.

So lots of crazies out there. People making up stuff for whatever reason. Who knows.

Kids used to call the Wetterlings and pretend they were Jacob. Lots of sickos out there.

 

[cGorg]

human...yes, you're right, people can say anything...it's sad. I am interested in facts wherever they may lead. People posting here are searching for answers. BTW...there was a red frown face on my last post...that was a mistake...I hit the icon by mistake...am still learning how this works.

 

[human]

Unless we figure out who Kevin and Ben are, I don't see what we can glean as truth