MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #7

[Sasquatch321]

Seriously, who burns animals? They would stink. And do you start a fire to burn one animal or do wait a few days? Makes no sense.

I have to say that ive never really heard of it. It sounds like something a satanic occult would be responsible for, or is this just what elementary music teachers do at home?

 

[Sasquatch321]

If all that's posted about DR here is true, why isn't it enough evidence to charge him? Something must not be correct, or DR would be sitting in jail.

It's my understanding that new investigators decided they would solve the case, which is why the property was re-searched after many years. What was found, apparently, was not enought to charge DR, and the new investigators did no better in the investigation than their predecessors.

DR can be called a POI, but nothing seems to lead to him other than proximity to the crime. We still have J's father mentioning a stranger at a hockey game. We also have the other boy who was abducted. Have we forgotten these events?

I would almost compare it to the Bible, Trino. Old testament vs new Testament. For 14 years we did investigate those other leads, they are now the old testament. Since 2003 there has been all but one person we've been looking at, this is now the new testament. Which one will you decide to follow? Or will you just follow both?

 

[human]

Very interesting article.

http://mindhuntersinc.com/why-killers-take-trophies/

From this article

It’s surprising how many killers return not just to the gravesite but to the scene of the crime. And some killers — the more organized or premeditated type — sometimes even inject themselves into the police investigation to provide bogus information. They do it for different reasons. They may want to find out where the investigation is headed or look for cues that it’s progressing along nicely because, naturally, they’re concerned about that.

They may go to the police in order to beat them to the punch, just in case someone may have seen them or provided a description of their car. This way, if their names pop up later, they can come back and say, “Oh, wait a minute, I went to you guys a month ago. I was cooperative.”

 

[human]

Very interesting article.

http://mindhuntersinc.com/why-killers-take-trophies/

More from this article

They’ll follow the case very closely and keep newspaper clips of their crimes. This is helpful to the investigator — something you want to look for when you initiate a search warrant.

Assassins are notorious for keeping news clips. Assassin-type personalities will also keep diaries. The disorganized type of criminal — that’s the asocial type, the loners, the weird — will keep diaries because they have trouble communicating with others so they feel much more comfortable writing out their thoughts, plans, goals or fantasies. Sirhan Sirhan, who gunned down Sen. Robert F. Kennedy, and Arthur Bremer, the would-be assassin who shot and paralyzed Alabama’s then-Gov. George Wallace, kept diaries describing the fantasies they wanted to act out.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Human your posts explain why DR seeked out Joy Baker to clear his name and brainwash her. If anyone else doesn't know, DR noticed Joy Bakers blogging about the case online, so he contacted her to give his version of what happened. In my opinion, all in an effort to get her off his back. The scariest thing about it, as I've pointed out before, he never seeked out the wetterlings first.

 

[shergal]

Human your posts explain why DR seeked out Joy Baker to clear his name and brainwash her. If anyone else doesn't know, DR noticed Joy Bakers blogging about the case online, so he contacted her to give his version of what happened. In my opinion, all in an effort to get her off his back. The scariest thing about it, as I've pointed out before, he never seeked out the wetterlings first.

Is this part that I bolded above a fact, Sasquatch? I thought Joy said she contacted DR and Kevin to meet with her at Panera Bread to discuss the case and give their sides of the story. It didn't sound, IMO, like DR contacted her after she was already blogging about it.

If that is indeed the case, that is very interesting.

 

[human]

I am confused on if Joy went to him or if Joy was contacted by him.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Is this part that I bolded above a fact, Sasquatch? I thought Joy said she contacted DR and Kevin to meet with her at Panera Bread to discuss the case and give their sides of the story. It didn't sound, IMO, like DR contacted her after she was already blogging about it.

If that is indeed the case, that is very interesting.

I have the info right here from Joy Bakers Blog-

"Well, it goes like this. Back in January, Dan Rassier contacted me through my blog." Joy Baker

"He contacted me after Googling his own name and finding it listed several times on my blog. (In 2010, I began writing about the Jacob Wetterling abduction, just after law enforcement had begun digging in Rassiers’ yard.) After emailing back and forth a few times, I agreed to meet with Dan. We met in St. Cloud on January 30, and I learned he had quite a story to tell. Since 2004, just after Kevin came forward and announced that he had been the one to leave his tire tracks in Rassiers’ driveway the night Jacob was abducted, Dan’s life has been turned upside down. According to law enforcement, they had a new theory. There was no getaway car, and Jacob had probably been led away on foot. Their new focus was on local residents." Joy Baker

Pretty scary stuff when him and the Wetterlings are next door neighbors. Sasquatch321

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Let's say DR did this, how do you think it played out?

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely, but I, personally, don't believe there is any connection between DR and the hockey rink.

 

[HEY YOU!]

I'm not sure if I understand your question completely, but I, personally, don't believe there is any connection between DR and the hockey rink.

I don't think so either. But from your point of view, if DR did this how do you think it played out? You seem to have not made up your mind so I'm curious if you were to have DR be the guy who did this, how would you imagine it taking place? I've seen your other theories, what is your theory on DR and how he did this?

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I don't think so either. But from your point of view, if DR did this how do you think it played out? You seem to have not made up your mind so I'm curious if you were to have DR be the guy who did this, how would you imagine it taking place? I've seen your other theories, what is your theory on DR and how he did this?

I'm probably one of the few people here who doesn't think DR is involved (at least not directly). I still strongly lean towards a vehicle being at or near the scene. The boys may not have seen or heard a vehicle, but it was dark out, and once the boys realized what kind of situation they were in, I wouldn't expect them to notice anything else going on around them.

I'm also on the fence about Kevin's tire tracks. If I'm understanding it correctly, Kevin came forward and told them the tracks were his. How did they verify the tracks were his? By Kevin's word only? I don't necessarily doubt that he drove up the driveway, but I'd have more faith that they were his tracks if they were actually able to compare his tire tracks from the vehicle he was driving at the time to the tracks that were in question on the driveway. However, this doesn't seem like much of a possibility if he no longer had possession of the vehicle and/or tires by the time he came forward.

Also, if those tracks belonged to DR (as this has been suggested here on WS), wouldn't they have been able to identify the vehicle?

Regardless if the tracks were made by Kevin's vehicle, DR's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle, Jacob's prints and scent ended next to them and his toe dug into the dirt. In my opinion, Jacob was taken away in a vehicle. I have a hard time believing Jacob is on the farm. I'm not even convinced that he's no longer alive. We've seen numerous long term missing children come home in the last few years. I know it's still probably a small percentage, but I don't think it's impossible for Jacob, especially since they have no evidence indicating otherwise.

Let's not forget that the scene did not seem to be completely secured immediately afterwards, either. My personal opinion on why that seems to be the case is that everyone was just expecting to find Jacob immediately and didn't think this was going to be a long term case. Twenty-five years later and still no answers. Who could have possibly imagined?

 

[human]

I'm probably one of the few people here who doesn't think DR is involved (at least not directly). I still strongly lean towards a vehicle being at or near the scene. The boys may not have seen or heard a vehicle, but it was dark out, and once the boys realized what kind of situation they were in, I wouldn't expect them to notice anything else going on around them.

I'm also on the fence about Kevin's tire tracks. If I'm understanding it correctly, Kevin came forward and told them the tracks were his. How did they verify the tracks were his? By Kevin's word only? I don't necessarily doubt that he drove up the driveway, but I'd have more faith that they were his tracks if they were actually able to compare his tire tracks from the vehicle he was driving at the time to the tracks that were in question on the driveway. However, this doesn't seem like much of a possibility if he no longer had possession of the vehicle and/or tires by the time he came forward.

Also, if those tracks belonged to DR (as this has been suggested here on WS), wouldn't they have been able to identify the vehicle?

Regardless if the tracks were made by Kevin's vehicle, DR's vehicle, or someone else's vehicle, Jacob's prints and scent ended next to them and his toe dug into the dirt. In my opinion, Jacob was taken away in a vehicle. I have a hard time believing Jacob is on the farm. I'm not even convinced that he's no longer alive. We've seen numerous long term missing children come home in the last few years. I know it's still probably a small percentage, but I don't think it's impossible for Jacob, especially since they have no evidence indicating otherwise.

Let's not forget that the scene did not seem to be completely secured immediately afterwards, either. My personal opinion on why that seems to be the case is that everyone was just expecting to find Jacob immediately and didn't think this was going to be a long term case. Twenty-five years later and still no answers. Who could have possibly imagined?

Where was the car parked? It seems that all tire tracks on the driveway are accounted for.

The road is way too narrow to have a car parked out of sight.

What about the ditches on the side of the road?

Where I live, there is no way a car can go over a ditch and survive intact.

What are the ditches like there?

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

Where was the car parked? It seems that all tire tracks on the driveway are accounted for.

The road is way too narrow to have a car parked out of sight.

What about the ditches on the side of the road?

Where I live, there is no way a car can go over a ditch and survive intact.

What are the ditches like there?

As I stated in my post, I don't necessarily believe all the tire tracks are accounted for just because Kevin came forward. Unless LE was physically able to prove that those tire tracks matched the ones that belonged to the vehicle Kevin was driving that night, then there is room for doubt.

What are the ditches like where?

 

[human]

As I stated in my post, I don't necessarily believe all the tire tracks are accounted for just because Kevin came forward. Unless LE was physically able to prove that those tire tracks matched the ones that belonged to the vehicle Kevin was driving that night, then there is room for doubt.

What are the ditches like where?

They believe Kevin and there must have been one unidentified set of tire tracks. That seems to eliminate the other multiple unknown cars that DR said went up and down his driveway.

Seriously, why would LE lie ? And it was not just the Sheriff involved in the latest search. Multiple agencies.

I am referring to the ditches by the side of the road. In the country there are always ditches to carry away rain water to keep the road from disappearing

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

They believe Kevin and there must have been one unidentified set of tire tracks. That seems to eliminate the other multiple unknown cars that DR said went up and down his driveway.

Seriously, why would LE lie ? And it was not just the Sheriff involved in the latest search. Multiple agencies.

I am referring to the ditches by the side of the road. In the country there are always ditches to carry away rain water to keep the road from disappearing

I'm not implying that LE is lying. I'm wondering why they believe they are Kevin's tracks.

We must not be understanding each other. I know what ditches are. You asked, "what are the ditches like there?" My question is, "where?" And I guess I'm not sure why you are asking that question?

 

[human]

1. So if it is not Kevin's car, then where are the tracks for the other cars DR said went up and down that driveway that day?

2. The car had to be parked somewhere. You believe it was in the driveway.

Kevin put himself at the scene and said he drove down the driveway because...........?

3. If the car was not in the driveway, where was it parked? The road is super narrow and there are ditches. Could a car cross a ditch and park in the field?

4. There was a fence on one side of the DR driveway, so no way to pull off the driveway and park.

 

[KeepHopeAlive]

I'm not questioning Kevin putting himself at the scene or speaking to LE. I'm only questioning how LE can prove that the tracks are, in fact, Kevin's. Kevin just saying so or LE just saying so isn't enough for me. I don't have any answers about where any vehicle was parked or could have been parked. I've never been to the exact area. This is only my opinion, based on everything I've heard or read. To solve a crime you follow the evidence. Jacob's prints ended on the driveway where there were tire tracks. That leaves one obvious scenario. My opinion is that he was put into a vehicle.

 

[shergal]

I've driven down that road and they looked like fairly steep ditches to me. I think if a car pulled into one of those ditches it would not get back out, at least not without leaving huge ruts and marks. And there were none. (Although, as I recall, LE had DR drive around the tape the next morning through the tall grass to get to the road, so maybe it is possible to drive alongside part of his driveway.) But if the abductor had driven there, it would have probably left more marks in the grass (flattened grass) Than it would on gravel.

I'm not convinced it was a gravel driveway at all. Early photos of the scene look like a plain old dirt driveway to me. Gravel is usually grayer, IMO. And dirt shows tracks much better.

I do think that LE eliminated the tracks they did find (most recent ones probably) because Kevin said his gf had just purchased new tires - I think it was at Firestone? I don't recall where she bought them. But if she still had the sales receipt, LE would have been able to match that type tire against what they found in the driveway - so I do think they eliminated Kevin's car that way and didn't just "take his word for it."

I guess I'm open to the "slight" possibility that Jacob could have been taken away in another car. It's also possible DR had company, a relative or a visitor that day or evening, so the extra car was already in DR's yard. This visitor could have left and taken Jacob with him. Anything is possible.

 

[shergal]

These photos show the (DR) driveway from above and a close-up, it just looks more like dirt to me. We have a gravel driveway, and it has much more small rocks than what are shown here.

Crime Scene from above - credit to St. Cloud daily Times staff.



http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/Wetterling_Crime_Scene_Aerial_View.jpg

Dug-in footprint

http://www.deadzoom.com/member/samiping/footprints.jpg

 

[cGorg]

The whole tire track, footprint, vehicle-no vehicle thing is difficult at best to decipher given the skimpy evidence. My grandparents had a farm and there was a gravel driveway and a separate dirt driveway leading out of the farm into the fields. The difference is noticeable and especially in a rain. The dirt road while bisecting a field did connect to a paved highway, however, it was considered a 'no maintenance' road and became a slippery mess when wet. The Rassier farm driveway IMO had to be a gravel road as it appears it's the only entrance and if any farm vehicles had to access other fields elsewhere the road would have to be sufficiently packed and solidfied but under wet enough conditions could leave ruts. However, the picture of Jacob's footprints does appear more 'dirt-like'....perhaps another layer of gravel was recently added that Fall? Additionally, it appears there's multiple footprints in that picture. Last summer under very dry condtions I drove my car on a gravel parking lot and a grassy area next to the parking lot. Then I walked on both. Interestingly my vehicle tracks and footprints were light + intermittent. The most noticeable item was tire tracks on the gravel while my footprints in gravel were almost non-existant except in the softer areas. Tire tracks in dry grass were faintly visible while footprints not visible at all. Hardly scientific but interesting to try for yourself.

One thing about that picture of Jacob's footprints....why are they so visible at this location? One would assume there's a trail of footprints. It's been discussed that maybe the perp dragged Jacob thru the grass and then he made a run for it onto the gravel...but if so, given the softness of the road at that point, the perps footprints would have been visible there as well. And if the perp caught Jacob, then carried him further on to the farm....then why does the scent end there? IMHO, the tire tracks + footprints are not conclusive due to lack of solid info(maybe LE has that info). Something about it all is odd to me.