MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002 - #2

[DarkJodo]

I'm starting to wonder if Josh wasn't set up -- a la meet me here at X time for ___ for what I don't know -- but -- it's always been odd to me that he suddenly got up from that party and walked out. I'm sure there was a bathroom at the location of the party he was attending. Josh's Dad has always said he thought "someone grabbed Josh." Sounds like a good possibility. And whatever nastiness it was may have been covered up. Would that surprise anyone here?

The "set up and grabbed" theory is an interesting one. There are a few ways it could have gone down.

1) Crime of opportunity. Someone happens to be driving and spots Josh walking home alone. Possible, but looking at the route that Josh took home, the chances of this happening is so incredibly low.

2) A staged scenario. Someone faked needing help from someone and knew that Josh would be walking by. Josh falls for the ploy, and is grabbed and taken away. This scenario would take some time setting up because they would have no idea what time Josh would be walking by. Other witnesses would have surly seen a car or someone just waiting at the scene. Granted that one witness had come forward about a white SUV that was parked on the bridge for awhile that night, I still don't put too much stock in this one.

3) Josh was followed, and grabbed at the right moment. I believe this scenario is the one that Brian believes in the most. Someone was watching Josh's every move, fully intending to take him at the most opportune time. Out of the three scenarios here, I could see this one a little more likely to happen than the others.

What other possibilities could have happened?

 

[ThePhantom]

The third scenario, possibly unfolding like this: Josh was on a "hit list" of sorts for either having experienced sexual harrassment from one of the monks and/or for writing about the way sexual abuse cases had been handled by St. John's. We know during that general timeframe, there was a football player (I believe he played football) who complained about a monk who had been hitting on him. This young man was angry and frustrated because the abbot was very slow to respond or take action after he submitted a letter of complaint. It's possible Josh knew about the football player incident, (though I need to get clarity whether this particular incident occurred prior to or after Josh went missing). Either way, it shows the unacceptable behavior was very much still happening in 2002. So I'm thinking of a possible scenario in which one of the corrupt monks may have engaged the help of criminal types in the community. He may have sought their help in abducting, torturing and killing Josh. Obviously this would have meant this group of criminals would have been watching Josh, possibly with help from the monk. Did Josh have a cell phone and was it ever found? Is it possible he was contacted online by a poser with whom Josh agreed to meet for one reason or another. This might explain his sudden departure from the party -- he might have agreed via phone or computer to meet this person at a pre-established time. This would have set the stage for a premeditated abduction and murder. It's the closest I can get to what I think may have happened, other than Josh falling into a lake --which in my heart I don't believe happened, alas.

 

[Sasquatch321]

My opinion is we'd have something a little more by now if he was grabbed. Because all you have to figure out then is who would have done that, and nothing has come of it. In my opinion it is more along the lines of the Jesse Dady story, they leave a party alone after dabbling with alcohol and were expected to go home from that point. But like Jesse I think josh wandered off somewhere noone could think of. I think Stearns initial searches of the water were a complete failure before Trident could get there after an entire winter had passed.

 

[DarkJodo]

Did Josh have a cell phone and was it ever found? Is it possible he was contacted online by a poser with whom Josh agreed to meet for one reason or another. This might explain his sudden departure from the party -- he might have agreed via phone or computer to meet this person at a pre-established time. This would have set the stage for a premeditated abduction and murder. It's the closest I can get to what I think may have happened, other than Josh falling into a lake --which in my heart I don't believe happened, alas.

Josh did not own a cell phone at all. At the time of his disappearance, he used 2 primary email addresses regularly. He also used AOL instant messenger pretty regularily. He had recently created at least 2 online dating profiles/chat room profiles on yahoo. On both accounts, he was posing as a woman.

I do not have access to either email addresses, or yahoo messaging where these chats would have taken place, and I doubt anyone has them now.

 

[ThePhantom]

Okay, so, if he was posing as woman -- he could have had a pre-arranged meeting that went south. But someone out there knows something. Such a cliche statement, I know. This is like a puzzle; what are the pieces we are missing? Maybe we should flesh out in detail a variety of possibilities. I know some here have done that before. I did only a hasty scenario above. It's still possibly Josh did as Sasquatch said and just went somewhere no one thought to look. Unfortunately this happens all the time, then we are all shocked to learn a body was found so close to where people had been looking. Suddenly we hear that a "mushroom hunter" (a la Chandra Levy) found a body -- in the same general vicinity were searches occurred. Last September, the crack search and rescue team in Reno scoured the area her phone last pinged and did not find her. Months later some folks walking in the woods found her in that same vicinity. And poor Jacob Wetterling -- turns out he wasn't far from home all this time. What are we missing?

 

[Sasquatch321]

Posing as a woman is certainly very strange considering what I've been told about Josh until now. Perhaps he picked up a stalker from living that life. Was he messing with males online? What was the point? It could also have nothing to do with randomly leaving a party at midnight alone. But who knows, maybe Josh skipped town to become who he really is. You shouldn't keep details like this hidden from the public until now.

 

[DarkJodo]

Posing as a woman is certainly very strange considering what I've been told about Josh until now. Perhaps he picked up a stalker from living that life. Was he messing with males online? What was the point? It could also have nothing to do with randomly leaving a party at midnight alone. But who knows, maybe Josh skipped town to become who he really is. You shouldn't keep details like this hidden from the public until now.

He was not messing with males online at that time. He is heterosexual.

As for “keeping details like this hidden”, this was reported in a St. Cloud times article 4 months after Josh went missing, so it already is public knowledge. Here is the link if you missed that one in your research, Sas:

Page 5 - St. Cloud Times at Newspapers.com

 

[Sasquatch321]

So what was the point of having 2 female aliases? I don't think I'm the only one just learning about this as it has never come up in discussion in the last 5 years on this board.

 

[DarkJodo]

So what was the point of having 2 female aliases? I don't think I'm the only one just learning about this as it has never come up in discussion in the last 5 years on this board.

We don’t know for sure, but I have a couple of theories.

1) he posed as a lesbian female and cruised lesbian chat and video chat rooms.

2) he created the profiles so he could run into his 2 other friends that were in the same chat rooms, and troll them.

The point is, these accounts existed, had email and chat capabilities, and they were never retrieved during the investigation.

 

[Sasquatch321]

We don’t know for sure, but I have a couple of theories.

1) he posed as a lesbian female and cruised lesbian chat and video chat rooms.

2) he created the profiles so he could run into his 2 other friends that were in the same chat rooms, and troll them.

The point is, these accounts existed, had email and chat capabilities, and they were never retrieved during the investigation.

They were never retrieved during the investigation yet you told me it was published in the paper 4 months after his disappearance, so how does that make sense?

 

[Sasquatch321]

I just have a quick thought that whoever wiped the computer for Josh, might not be completely telling us everything.

 

[ThePhantom]

Just my two cents, but I think there's a lot of stuff no one is telling us -- namely, the abbott and possibly the sheriff's department. We are left trying to piece things together with very limited information. I'm still bitter about the Wetterling case. Took one of our own to get out there and start asking basic questions to get the actual truth -- 27 years later. We function with one hand tied behind our back, because the cops want to "protect the integrity of the case." What integrity? After a decade or more, known information should be laid out on the table for all to see in order to get answers. And it shouldn't matter who the answers come from!! All Josh's parents, family and friends want is to know what happened to him. I expect zero help ever from the abbey and not much more from anyone else. We have dealt with so many heartbreaking cases, but this is one of the most painful because of the shoddy way the family has been treated, and absolutely zero progress made by the local sheriff department. Tragic.

 

[DarkJodo]

They were never retrieved during the investigation yet you told me it was published in the paper 4 months after his disappearance, so how does that make sense?

It was only discovered of their existence, not the information within. The family only received printouts of messages from 2 email accounts and nothing else.

 

[ThePhantom]

Did just a little bit of research about reasons why a male might pose as a lesbian on lesbian dating websites -- turns out it's a type of *advertiser censored* for some guys. Of course there's no way to know for sure, but I'm thinking -- maybe this doesn't have a bearing on Josh's disappearance, though it does merit some further thought. Where is everyone, what do you think?

 

[dotr]

Did just a little bit of research about reasons why a male might pose as a lesbian on lesbian dating websites -- turns out it's a type of *advertiser censored* for some guys. Of course there's no way to know for sure, but I'm thinking -- maybe this doesn't have a bearing on Josh's disappearance, though it does merit some further thought. Where is everyone, what do you think?

Tip toeing on this, but what comes to mind is someone who is attracted to females and occasionally dresses as a female, and when in that state, sees themselves as a lesbian.
speculation, imo.

 

[Sasquatch321]

According to Dark Jodo there is only 2 worthy reason why he did that. I googled it and found there can be several factors why. Talking to his friends and roomates might get the best idea of what he was doing.

 

[ThePhantom]

Do you think Josh's roommates were aware of Josh doing it? Also -- how might this factor into Josh disappearing? It's confusing to me.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Do you think Josh's roommates were aware of Josh doing it? Also -- how might this factor into Josh disappearing? It's confusing to me.

Yes I do because who became so keen so quickly to wipe the computer as soon as he went missing? Thats a pretty good friend.

Does it coincide with the disappearance that night? No I don't think there is a good chance. But a possibility is that he set somepne up that night to come to a parking lot at midnight, and Josh left the party to see if that person actually showed up and was waiting for a woman.

 

[ThePhantom]

That makes sense. And then the question might become -- did a woman show up and did she perhaps bring someone with her ---

 

[Sasquatch321]

That makes sense. And then the question might become -- did a woman show up and did she perhaps bring someone with her ---

It's hard to fathom a parking lot scenario in St. Johns without creating another witness to it. Someone saw josh walking away from the party and that is all we still have. Except a dog did track something to the shoreline of stumpf lake.