MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002 - #2

[Ciriii57]

ive beene having athink about this door situation!! i remembered a situation i had around 10-12 years ago. and wondered if josh could have done the same.....this is very plausible (at least in my head!!)

i waS at university with the same style doors that metten ct has/had. one day i went to visit my girlfriend and as i was walking to her place (she lived 5-10 minutes from me)....halfway there i realised i forgot to take her some cakes i'd baked earlier that day...so i went back to my place and put down my swipe card in a rush and i went to the kitchen, couldn't find the cakes...so i began knocking on every flatmates door asking who the hell had eaten the cakes, they were for my girl... anyway,i realised i was running late so instead of going to get my card, i just left the door wedged open so i could quickly go get her and walk back to my place (i didnt like her walking on her own to my place as the area was a bit rough)

so if you follow my logic....if we believe josh went back to maur house at 11.06pm....then in a rush, maybe he did similar to what i did back at university and placed his swipe card down, realised his friends are probably waiting for him, so wedged the door and goes back out with his friends and walks up to metten ct.

this theory seems plausible to me.....if joshs swipe card was found in his room. anyone know if it was??

Took me a while to get passed the cakes...yes I do think it's a plausible explanation. Especially since we have no idea if he forget his keycard.

My thoughts:
How could you, or Josh, be certain that someone else wouldn't come in and close the door. If they left before you got back and no one was in, you'd still be stuck outside. (Unable to get to the cake!)

The keycard being found in the room could be from him returning at 11.06. but if we believe Josh went back to his room after leaving the party, it could be from then too.

I still think it's plausible. Just playing devil's advocate.

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

Took me a while to get passed the cakes...yes I do think it's a plausible explanation. Especially since we have no idea if he forget his keycard.

mmm cakes! thats why i had to go back and get them, cant leave a good cake behind!

My thoughts:
How could you, or Josh, be certain that someone else wouldn't come in and close the door. If they left before you got back and no one was in, you'd still be stuck outside. (Unable to get to the cake!)

The keycard being found in the room could be from him returning at 11.06. but if we believe Josh went back to his room after leaving the party, it could be from then too.

I still think it's plausible. Just playing devil's advocate.

great question. and to answer that, id say youd have to be sure 1) no one else is coming back to the dorm before you are 2) if there is one person in the dorm, he isnt leaving for the night

we know nick went to katies, so hes not at the dorm
alex and greg are going to the poker so they wont be at the dorm
one student (J?) that squeelz mentioned was said to be off campus
that leaves one student in the dorms who maybe didnt go anywhere that night and stayed indoors e.g didnt go to poker with the rest of them, and didnt go with nick

so if josh did what i suggested in my theory, the wedged door would have stayed open when/if he got back to maur house between 11.45 - 11.50..... which means, it's theoretically very plausible that:

josh made it home and began to play that music between 11.52 - 12.32 and this is why there was no card entry for josh.

of course, this is all based on my own opinion/facts/anecdotal experiences, but could explain why music played in joshs room at those times,yet there was no card entry.

 

[Ciriii57]

we know nick went to katies, so hes not at the dorm
alex and greg are going to the poker so they wont be at the dorm
one student (J?) that squeelz mentioned was said to be off campus
that leaves one student in the dorms who maybe didnt go anywhere that night and stayed indoors e.g didnt go to poker with the rest of them, and didnt go with nick

so if josh did what i suggested in my theory, the wedged door would have stayed open when/if he got back to maur house between 11.45 - 11.50...

This looks like excellent reasoning to me. Josh may have known the other roommate would be staying in all night for whatever reason and so was sure it would remain propped open.

 

[Ilovewillow72]

Loved reading all your posts and respect all the research that you’ve all done. I wonder if anyone has considered that it was actually Nick who created the fake profiles using Josh’s account. Could Josh of stumbled on the fact that Nick was communicating as Josh? Did Josh report Nick when he found out, was that what the argument was initially about? OR Josh was catfish by Nick? Nick is the common denominator and full of red flags For example where was the research paper that Nick claimed Josh was working on regarding the monks?IMO occam’s razor is usually correct.

 

[Ciriii57]

Loved reading all your posts and respect all the research that you’ve all done. I wonder if anyone has considered that it was actually Nick who created the fake profiles using Josh’s account. Could Josh of stumbled on the fact that Nick was communicating as Josh? Did Josh report Nick when he found out, was that what the argument was initially about? OR Josh was catfish by Nick? Nick is the common denominator and full of red flags For example where was the research paper that Nick claimed Josh was working on regarding the monks?IMO occam’s razor is usually correct.

Thats a very good point, it could have been Nick who was messing with Josh. Every red flag concerns Nick, I totally agree.
I'm not sure if there was an actual research paper or it was just research at this stage. Either way, you'd think he'd make some notes. I know that both his mum and his mock trial co-ordinater were aware he was researching this. From what his trial co-ordinater said it seems she was under the impression he was looking at it from a "legal research" perspective; though others have stated he was very angry about it.
I do know it was Nick who first alerted authorities to the fact. Maybe to point the finger somewhere else....?

 

[Ilovewillow72]

Yep agree wherever you turn there appears to be one common denominator

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

random question...but does anyone have a subscription to minnesota news paper archives? i know darkjodo did collect a large amount but i want to be able to text-search all of the newspapers themselves in the years 1999-2002,not just articles

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

had a thought today which id like to sshare! so.....josh was with alex and greg prior to leaving together as a group of 3....but josh went back at 11.06 pm and swiped back into his dorm! i am making a leap of faith and assuming greg and alex didnt follow josh back in, but either walked off to metten ct, or waited outside (i assume they walked offw ithout josh but dont know for a fact)

either way... this tells me josh wanted to go back in and get something he didnt want them to see. sheriffs lead us to believe its beer. i find it extremely hard to believe 3 guys of that age would walk out of a dorm without a crate of beer...ive spent a lot of time with guys that age and forgetting beer isnt something ive ever seen!

so...this makes me now ask....what did josh go back into his dorm for? whatever it was,he didnt want alex or greg to see

now if we focus on the times... the netflix doc said josh got to metten ct poker party at 11.30 p.m
its a 5 min walk
that means josh left maur hs at 11 25 p.m
which means josh was inside maur hs for 19 mins (11.06 - 11.25 pm)

this 19 minute period seems like it has been overlooked... what was josh doing and looking for for 19 mins because it sure as hell cant be beers.it doesnt take 19 minutes to look for beer

(post is my opinions with my times based on fact that josh key card in to maur at 11.06 and poker party saw him at 11.30pm)

 

[Ciriii57]

had a thought today which id like to sshare! so.....josh was with alex and greg prior to leaving together as a group of 3....but josh went back at 11.06 pm and swiped back into his dorm! i am making a leap of faith and assuming greg and alex didnt follow josh back in, but either walked off to metten ct, or waited outside (i assume they walked offw ithout josh but dont know for a fact)

either way... this tells me josh wanted to go back in and get something he didnt want them to see. sheriffs lead us to believe its beer. i find it extremely hard to believe 3 guys of that age would walk out of a dorm without a crate of beer...ive spent a lot of time with guys that age and forgetting beer isnt something ive ever seen!

so...this makes me now ask....what did josh go back into his dorm for? whatever it was,he didnt want alex or greg to see

now if we focus on the times... the netflix doc said josh got to metten ct poker party at 11.30 p.m
its a 5 min walk
that means josh left maur hs at 11 25 p.m
which means josh was inside maur hs for 19 mins (11.06 - 11.25 pm)

this 19 minute period seems like it has been overlooked... what was josh doing and looking for for 19 mins because it sure as hell cant be beers.it doesnt take 19 minutes to look for beer

(post is my opinions with my times based on fact that josh key card in to maur at 11.06 and poker party saw him at 11.30pm)

How accurate are the times remembered by the folks at the party? Were they guesstimating? Rounding to the nearest half hour? That's a problem. They didn't seem very accurate knowing when Josh left. And I'd guess they were 10 mins out (earlier).
However, this does not detract from the fact that Josh went back into his room for something for possibly longer than the time it took to get beer. I'd always imagined Greg and Alex waited for him only because I hadn't noticed there was a time discrepancy, now I'm certain they didn't wait that long. But they could have gone back inside with him.

So what might he have gone in for:
Bottle of Bombay Sapphire
To make a phonecall
To put his contact lenses in
To change an item of clothing
Grab his cigarettes
Go to the toilet
Tell a roommate something or goodbye

It's quite an endless list. But if it is significant then it's likely related to why he chose to return from the party after like 15 mins?

Why oh why have Greg and Alex not been asked this info?

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

i agree with the above.my gut feeling tells me itss very possible it was a toilet break, or to get cigarettes etc etc but at the same time i am thinking, metten ct is 5 min away,they will have beer and cigarettes and alcohol and a toilet there,going back into maur house for 19 mins has to mean something...i dont know what it means....but it has to mean something. and if it does....what did josh not want alex and greg to see?

of course its possible that im wrong/off and josh did run back in for a toilet break or something silly, but these are my thoughts

 

[Ciriii57]

i agree with the above.my gut feeling tells me itss very possible it was a toilet break, or to get cigarettes etc etc but at the same time i am thinking, metten ct is 5 min away,they will have beer and cigarettes and alcohol and a toilet there,going back into maur house for 19 mins has to mean something...i dont know what it means....but it has to mean something. and if it does....what did josh not want alex and greg to see?

of course its possible that im wrong/off and josh did run back in for a toilet break or something silly, but these are my thoughts

I agree, it's something that needs resolving better than " we thing he went to get beer". And only Greg W and Alex J can do that. I wish we had them here!
It also highlights one of the standout problems in Joshs case: literally everything that Josh did that night has about 5 possible explanations.
A weird thing in this case is that despite the huge wealth of information, police never produced a factual, confirmed timeline of that night. (I know ther is a timeline, but it is as full of holes as Swiss cheese!)

Hmmm...you don't suppose that the massive amount of information available in Joshs case might be the problem? Could it be that we can't see the wood for the trees? Should we somehow try to strip it back to basics?

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

I agree, it's something that needs resolving better than " we thing he went to get beer". And only Greg W and Alex J can do that. I wish we had them here!
It also highlights one of the standout problems in Joshs case: literally everything that Josh did that night has about 5 possible explanations.
A weird thing in this case is that despite the huge wealth of information, police never produced a factual, confirmed timeline of that night. (I know ther is a timeline, but it is as full of holes as Swiss cheese!)

Hmmm...you don't suppose that the massive amount of information available in Joshs case might be the problem? Could it be that we can't see the wood for the trees? Should we somehow try to strip it back to basics?

bbm - yes! this is the issue. but we ca n definitely go back to basics and see if we are missing the obvious

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

going back to basics and reading the articles from the time, word by word...

started with this one:

Article clipped from Star Tribune

Clipping found in Star Tribune published in Minneapolis, Minnesota on 11/8/2003.

www.newspapers.com

some key points from the article above (BBM):

• “The whole walk down there he was in a great mood,” said Greg Worden, a friend and former roommate.
• Worden said he and others thought Guimond was headed to a bathroom down the hall. When he didn’t return after 10 or 15 minutes, everyone assumed he’d gone home.
• “It’s kind of like, you don’t need to say ‘goodbye,’” said Nate Slinkard, the classmate who was host to the gathering. “I mean, we’re all in college, and if you’re ready to go home and go to bed, you go.” Worden said friends called Guimond’s room a short time later, “and nobody answered. We thought he might be sleeping or something. We didn’t think anything was wrong.”
• A month before his disappearance, he and Benson broke up
• (Nate) A year later, he said, certain moments of that night “kind of re-create themselves” in his mind. “Not the whole night, but that instant when he got up and left. I was standing there looking right at him.”
• Worden said he often thinks about his friend while walking through the campus at night. “Usually, I make sure I’m with other people,” he said. “And to this day, I don’t think I’ve walked over that bridge or past that bridge when it is dark out. Just to even walk past that bridge [during the day] is pretty tough. “I don’t know if I’ll ever learn to live with it,” he said.

my thoughts:

• this implies Greg and Alex waited for Josh whilst Josh went back into his dorm at 11.06pm
• so why call him? makes no sense if you arent worried about him leaving. its not normal for someone to turn up and go after 15 mins, but especially if the two people you came with waited 19 mins whilst Josh went back into his dorm.... they waited longer for Josh going back into his dorm, than Josh was at the party

im not buying what the poker party people are selling me... if you are reading thispost, please read it several times and see if you agree with me or not....somethingseems off to me

couple this with what katie said on the netflix doc: "i knew something was preventing him coming back" (paraphrased)

everything im now reading tells me that the friends knew josh was in danger,hence the call to his dorm. and this may explain nicks late keycard in at 2.42 am. its beginning to sound to me like after they made the call,they panicked and even began looking for josh. i would very much like to know everyones keycard records for the night. did anyone else sign into their dorm late?? if so, this might confirm my theory

 

[pokahboy21]

That would be interesting to see. There’s a bit of info here, but you have to be a current student to see the floorplans:

Maur and Placid Houses | SJU Residential Life and Housing

Maur and Placid Houses. Our two colleges work passionately to create individual learning experiences that meet the goals of each student.

www.csbsju.edu

And of course, that big ground floor window could be a good ‘alternate exit’.

Here are the floorplans if anyone is interested: Maur House Floor Plan

Just click "Maur House Floor Plan". It's a link to a Google Photos Album that contain the floor plans for Maur House

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

Here are the floorplans if anyone is interested: Joshua Guimond Cold Case

unfortunately it requires a st johns email address to access them

 

[pokahboy21]

unfortunately it requires a st johns email address to access them

unfortunately it requires a st johns email address to access them

Just click "Maur House Floor Plan". It's a link to a Google Photos Album that contain the floor plans for Maur House

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

Just click "Maur House Floor Plan". It's a link to a Google Photos Album that contain the floor plans for Maur House

nice i see the updated link now. thanks for sharing!!

 

[Ciriii57]

Here are the floorplans if anyone is interested: Maur House Floor Plan

Just click "Maur House Floor Plan". It's a link to a Google Photos Album that contain the floor plans for Maur House

Thank you so much! That's fantastic.
It's not what I expected.

So if I'm interpreting correctly Maur House was divided into what...7 separate units. Each with 2 bedrooms on levels 2, 3, 4 and the common areas and kitchen on ground floor.

Can someone confirm what was Joshs room number? It seems there are quite a few potential entry points, but I'm not seeing whether all thr different blocks were interconnected or not.

 

[puzzleworldplanet]

Thank you so much! That's fantastic.
It's not what I expected.

So if I'm interpreting correctly Maur House was divided into what...7 separate units. Each with 2 bedrooms on levels 2, 3, 4 and the common areas and kitchen on ground floor.

Can someone confirm what was Joshs room number? It seems there are quite a few potential entry points, but I'm not seeing whether all thr different blocks were interconnected or not.

the floorplan confused the living daylights out of me too.not whati was expecting either!! Josh's room was #105

 

[Ciriii57]

the floorplan confused the living daylights out of me too.not whati was expecting either!! Josh's room was #105

105 is the block number, Josh's room woukd need to be either #105E or #105F. It doesn't necessarily matter which: Basically one of these two:



The groundplan is so confusing because Maur House was built in what's known as a scissor style which means that the people who lived in the room underneath you were not in the same block, your housemates were directly across as you wnet doen the stairs. It was basically a zig zag:

Basically say Josh and his roomates from Maur #105 lived in the Black boxes above. The people from Maur #104 lived in the blue. They were intertwined but had seperate staircases and you theoretically shouldn't have been able to access 105 from 104 say.
I hope that makes sense...sorry maps and plans is my thing!

Anyway, one thing is clear. The only things on that top floor were Nick and Josh's rooms. There was no other reason for anyone to be up there.