MN MN - Joshua Guimond, 20, Collegeville, 9 Nov 2002 - #2

[Sasquatch321]

Josh went down to the shoreline of a manmade lake at around midnight without appropriate clothing for the weather. He had just left a card party where alcohol was available. The trail from there and over the last 16 years is cold. It is my conclusion that the bodies of water and mud surrounding the area should be continually looked at. The fact is besides Josh's father, the land and water we are talking about has only been professionally searched physically for about 14 days over 16 years. You can't find him this way.

 

[DarkJodo]

Josh went down to the shoreline of a manmade lake at around midnight without appropriate clothing for the weather. He had just left a card party where alcohol was available. The trail from there and over the last 16 years is cold. It is my conclusion that the bodies of water and mud surrounding the area should be continually looked at. The fact is besides Josh's father, the land and water we are talking about has only been professionally searched physically for about 14 days over 16 years. You can't find him this way.

Why do you insist on believing that Josh is still in Stumpf Lake? It's been searched so many times - its not like its a big lake. At the time when Josh went missing, the lake was 3 feet deep for the first 30 yards from the culvert. Its been searched numerous time by expert search teams that have not once cleared a single lake that contained a body. Furthermore, the same department that you continually defend (SCSO) have themselves cleared that Lake and campus areas.

All these experts in their fields have all told us that he's not in there. Zero evidence. Not a shred of clothing, bone fragment or anything to indicate that he was ever in the water. At this point, I'm just wondering what does it take for Sas to accept that Josh isn't in Stumpf Lake?

the land and water we are talking about has only been professionally searched physically for about 14 days over 16 years. You can't find him this way.

I agree that you can't find Josh by insisting that he will only be found in the water and not actively investigate any other possibility of abduction. SCSO had such bad tunnel vision in the beginning that they totally lost any chance to investigate other possibilities.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Why do you insist on believing that Josh is still in Stumpf Lake? It's been searched so many times - its not like its a big lake. At the time when Josh went missing, the lake was 3 feet deep for the first 30 yards from the culvert. Its been searched numerous time by expert search teams that have not once cleared a single lake that contained a body. Furthermore, the same department that you continually defend (SCSO) have themselves cleared that Lake and campus areas.

All these experts in their fields have all told us that he's not in there. Zero evidence. Not a shred of clothing, bone fragment or anything to indicate that he was ever in the water. At this point, I'm just wondering what does it take for Sas to accept that Josh isn't in Stumpf Lake?



I agree that you can't find Josh by insisting that he will only be found in the water and not actively investigate any other possibility of abduction. SCSO had such bad tunnel vision in the beginning that they totally lost any chance to investigate other possibilities.

If it means going to tbe ends of the earth to find him, that's what I"m going to do. I've begun an outline of what I'm going to do and in the end this will mean Stumpf Lake and East Gemini lake will no longer exist anymore. I'm going to mine it. I'm going to completely change the landscape of the area as you know it.

I plan to submit this plan to the city council on feb 1st.

 

[Sasquatch321]

“There is never a guarantee that human remains could have been hidden or dumped in a body of water and are now hidden from the sidescan sonar technology"

Find Joshua Guimond » As Trident goes, TV crew comes to St. John’s

Exactly, you can't find a body submerged in mud using a sidescan of the lake. You have to mine it.

 

[DarkJodo]

I plan to submit this plan to the city council on feb 1st.

That may be difficult being that both of those lakes reside on private property.

I'm intrigued with your plan, though. You would need permission from St. John's, Stearns County Sheriff's Department and the DNR. There were talks with the DNR early in the investigation about completely draining the lake, but nothing happened with it.

 

[DarkJodo]

These are the properties listed that aren't part of the SJU campus (Note that the Bemidji cabin is nearly 60 acres, and very remote:

Properties which are not contiguous to the campus property.
Swenson Cabin - 59.75 acres
Property Address:
203 Wagon Wheel Dr SE; Bemidji, MN 56601
Legal Description:
Sect-13 Twp-146 Range-032
NE1/4 OF NE1/4 & Lot 1

Eagle Cabin – 1 acre
Property Address:
16851 N Eagle Lake RD Fifty Lakes, MN
Legal Description:
Sec:24 Twp: 138.0 Rg:27 Lot: Blk: Acres 1.00
PART OF GOV.LOT 1 24 138 27 DESC.:BEG. AT
THE NE CORNER OF SAID LOT 1, THENCE W’LY
ALONG THE N. LINE THEREOF 252FT, THENCE S. 15
Both of these properties are used as retreats and are not included in the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) assessment.

 

[dotr]

A ish, helped by another student or staff, tricked into meeting at the lake or Josh's items brought there to provide the scent redirect for search dogs.
It could not hurt to have one more look at the lake in case a body was brought there after the searches were complete.
Large flower pot/urns? check them out- as per the regular church going accused sk of men B McArthur
Thoughts for now.
imo speculation

 

[human]

Fifty Lakes is not that far but Bemidji is quite a hike.

Fifty Lakes, Minnesota - Wikipedia

 

[ThePhantom]

For anyone who might be reading these posts right now but does not feel comfortable publicly posting, you can send a personal message to any of these websleuth members; you'll just need to make an account and log in. You might be able to help fill in some of the gaps for us. Sixteen long years have passed and if someone doesn't lend a hand, we may never get the answers. So, if have some info but don't want to post here, please get in touch.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Fifty Lakes is not that far but Bemidji is quite a hike.

Fifty Lakes, Minnesota - Wikipedia

What are we implying with such outlying properties? That a monk was able to actually drive Josh to a location so far away with no problem? That a monk would drive to one of these properties with a corpse in the trunk, bury him, and leave? It seems forced but it also seems to not make much sense.

 

[ThePhantom]

Well, it's just a possibility to consider. I don't put anything past some of these monks. Were their alibis for the night/morning Josh disappeared 100% established? Could Josh's body have been hidden somewhere near the campus and then moved to an outlying property? I have no idea, but -- I do think he was taken somewhere and murdered by a remorseless, sociopathic creep.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Well, it's just a possibility to consider. I don't put anything past some of these monks. Were their alibis for the night/morning Josh disappeared 100% established? Could Josh's body have been hidden somewhere near the campus and then moved to an outlying property? I have no idea, but -- I do think he was taken somewhere and murdered by a remorseless, sociopathic creep.

I believe Josh is no more than a half mile from St. Johns. We have a scent trail that led to the shoreline of stumpf lake. Its either that or he was picked up by a vehicle there, and to me thats a second thought longshot.

Something that holds very true and I remember to this day from the Wetterling case- Don't leave where you're looking until something takes you there. Where is Josh taking us? What did the dog say?

 

[human]

Jacob was quite a few miles away.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Jacob was quite a few miles away.

Right, but tire tracks and footprints of Jacob and the perp took them away from the property. until then, no, you shouldn't leave. We don't have this in this case.

 

[human]

Right, but tire tracks and footprints of Jacob and the perp took them away from the property. until then, no, you shouldn't leave. We don't have this in this case.

What month was it? Wouldn’t the mud there be pretty frim and not prone to have much sink in it?

 

[Corrupt2theCore]

These are the properties listed that aren't part of the SJU campus (Note that the Bemidji cabin is nearly 60 acres, and very remote:

Properties which are not contiguous to the campus property.
Swenson Cabin - 59.75 acres
Property Address:
203 Wagon Wheel Dr SE; Bemidji, MN 56601
Legal Description:
Sect-13 Twp-146 Range-032
NE1/4 OF NE1/4 & Lot 1

Eagle Cabin – 1 acre
Property Address:
16851 N Eagle Lake RD Fifty Lakes, MN
Legal Description:
Sec:24 Twp: 138.0 Rg:27 Lot: Blk: Acres 1.00
PART OF GOV.LOT 1 24 138 27 DESC.:BEG. AT
THE NE CORNER OF SAID LOT 1, THENCE W’LY
ALONG THE N. LINE THEREOF 252FT, THENCE S. 15
Both of these properties are used as retreats and are not included in the Forest Stewardship Council (FSC) assessment.

Don't forget they use other names when purchasing property. All the same however. Just as in the cabin property you forgot to mention. That being the cabin on Big Fish Lake.

Sisters at Timberlee, Collegeville Township, Minnesota

 

[DarkJodo]

I believe Josh is no more than a half mile from St. Johns. We have a scent trail that led to the shoreline of stumpf lake. Its either that or he was picked up by a vehicle there, and to me thats a second thought longshot.

The scent trail you are referring here never reached the shoreline. The trail ended on the sidewalk on the roadway of the culvert adjacent to Stumpf Lake - it never led down towards the water. The trail just ended there on the road. We even have witnesses seeing a person matching Josh's description walking past this point towards the parking lot of the dormitories.

 

[DarkJodo]

Don't forget they use other names when purchasing property. All the same however. Just as in the cabin property you forgot to mention. That being the cabin on Big Fish Lake.

Sisters at Timberlee, Collegeville Township, Minnesota

Those properties were the only ones listed within that document - I'm sure that there are more properties owned in other names. It appears that the Big Lake Cabin is owned by the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet, St. Paul Province. Do you know for sure that the St. John's Abbey owns this cabin?

 

[Sasquatch321]

The scent trail you are referring here never reached the shoreline. The trail ended on the sidewalk on the roadway of the culvert adjacent to Stumpf Lake - it never led down towards the water. The trail just ended there on the road. We even have witnesses seeing a person matching Josh's description walking past this point towards the parking lot of the dormitories.

We've been talking about this for years and now suddenly today the dog never made it to the water?

It was reported in the newspaper that a search dog led officers to the lake after being given a scent of Guimond's clothing, which may have prompted this focus.

After a search dog picked up Joshua’s scent near Stumpf Lake, a snake-like body of water located on the route Joshua would have taken back to his apartment, the decision to lower the water level in order to search the lake was approved. Searches and dragging of the lake uncovered no clues. Requests to totally drain Stumpf Lake awaited DNR approval.

Divers from the Stearns County Sheriffs Department searched a slough on campus after a search dog led them to the area.

Google Image Result for http://vanceholmes.com/court/guimond_search.jpg

 

[DarkJodo]

We've been talking about this for years and now suddenly today the dog never made it to the water?

It was reported in the newspaper that a search dog led officers to the lake after being given a scent of Guimond's clothing, which may have prompted this focus.

After a search dog picked up Joshua’s scent near Stumpf Lake, a snake-like body of water located on the route Joshua would have taken back to his apartment, the decision to lower the water level in order to search the lake was approved. Searches and dragging of the lake uncovered no clues. Requests to totally drain Stumpf Lake awaited DNR approval.

Divers from the Stearns County Sheriffs Department searched a slough on campus after a search dog led them to the area.

Google Image Result for http://vanceholmes.com/court/guimond_search.jpg

Yes - law enforcement likes to claim that a Pope County search dog traced Josh to the lake - over and over you will hear this by SCSO. But the fact is - in the original report, his scent was traced to the roadway, not directly to the water, which is why this original dog handler reported that it would be a possibility that Josh got into a vehicle at that point.

Like I said, Sas, SCSO was so convinced that Josh was in that water. They were the ones quoted in the papers about this. Not once did they mention the possibility that Josh was anywhere but the water early in the case.