MN MN - Madeline Jane Kingsbury, 26, mother of 2, Winona 31 Mar 2023

[hparker36]

What is PT? Assuming it’s custody, why don’t you think he will get it? Not referring to your post Schlep, but this thread is sounding like police headquarters in Minority Report. People saying this man is likely to murder his children. I agree the circumstances and behavior make him most suspicious for MK’s disappearance, but what if he didn’t have anything to do with this? I know on the rare occurrences when I’ve had bigger arguments with my husband, there have been times he’s left in a car and I’ve gone out for a walk. Luckily I haven’t been murdered while out or I’m sure he’d be prime suspect number one.

AF’s actions make sense to me if he is guilty or if he is innocent. I remember when poor Eliza Fletcher went missing the internets started attacking her husband and saying “tick tock.” They judged him because he hadn’t made public statements, or he didn’t look upset enough when cameras caught him outside of his house. Well boy is that poor man in one sick sense lucky. Lucky that his wife and the video of her abduction was found quickly. Otherwise he’d probably still be getting accused and interrogated. And if Eliza’s family lost faith in him and what he was telling them, then who knows? Maybe he’d be losing custody of his children, too.

Parent Time as in visitations

No, I agree with you, the ex-boyfriend is the most likely suspect by a lot. And I have zero problem with the general public speculating that someone did something. Innocent until proven guilty is for the legal process, and not public speculation. But innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law is why I do have questions about how easy or transparent the legal process is for taking away someone’s children when that person has not been charged with any crimes. The extreme power of the state needs to be held to account. If CPS truly did find evidence of crimes or danger to the children in their home, obviously they should be removed. But if the state can just write a statement that there were crimes going on in the house and not have to provide evidence of that up front yet be able to take someone’s children for two months until a court hearing/trial is set then I take issue with that because it could happen to anyone.

He did not have ROP recognition of parentage, that is why the children were taken from him . The children have no custodianship at this point. No guardians, nothing.

 

[youarentsilly]

The fact he delayed reporting her missing when most people would be extremely concerned and frantic is a massive red flag IMO.

Can you remind me how long was the delay?

 

[otto]

Can you remind me how long was the delay?

He said they dropped off the children and returned home at 8:15 AM. At 10:00 AM, he left in her van. He returned at 1:30 PM and she was missing. All her things, including the coat she was wearing earlier, were at home.

She was reported missing the following day, April 1. Police are interested in the location of her van between 10 AM March 31 and 4:00 PM April 1.

The delay was at least 24 hours.

 

[Knox]

A few new things Ilearned in the interview with Megan linked below -

• Maddi planned to keep the kids as close to Adam as possible and would co-parent with him.
• Adam has his own car, but may not have had car seats. So they primarily used Maddi's van when together.
• The daycare the kids attended was in a private home. LE spoke with the woman who runs it, she said it was common that they came together for drop off.
• It wasn't common for them both to be there at pick-up howver. It was Maddi who did that.

Sister of Maddi Kingsbury updates case, shares details surrounding her disappearance

Megan Kingsbury says she and her family are waiting with "bated breath" until they learn where Maddi is, and the circumstances behind her disappearance.

www.kare11.com

 

[Shamrock1]

If you're absolutely 100% innocent, why would you lawyer up?!

The fact he has no interest in Madeline, has never asked for help finding her, and has not taken part in any searches at all says it all.

The clock is ticking. It's only a matter of time.....

The idea that only a guilty person would retain counsel (or exercise his right to remain silent) is a dangerous myth fueled by crime and “copaganda” dramas. The innocent are perhaps the most in need of counsel, IMO.

 

[Knox]

Can you remind me how long was the delay?

I don't think that question can be answered.

We don't have any details on the pick-up that day. Did the daycare call Adam and tell him Maddi didn't pick up the kids, or did Adam just show up there alone?

The family according to Megan raised alarm bells after no one had spoke to her Friday by that evening, she wasn't replying to anyone's calls or messages. It's a little fuzzy what day she was actually reported missing, but JMO it was on Saturday- by a close friend of hers.

 

[swanniee11]

The idea that only a guilty person would retain counsel (or exercise his right to remain silent) is a dangerous myth fueled by crime and “copaganda” dramas. The innocent are perhaps the most in need of counsel, IMO.

I agree with what you're saying. I can't tell you how many times I've watched for instance first 48 or something like that and I talk to the TV " LAWYER". It's common sense to me. If I were in this boat, I'd have a lawyer for sure. Let them do the talking. This most certainly doesn't change my opinion on this situation though. IMO

 

[hparker36]

Thanks - do you remember the source? TIA

WPD Winona PD 4/5

 

[hparker36]

I don't think that question can be answered.

We don't have any details on the pick-up that day. Did the daycare call Adam and tell him Maddi didn't pick up the kids, or did Adam just show up there alone?

The family according to Megan raised alarm bells after no one had spoke to her Friday by that evening, she wasn't replying to anyone's calls or messages. It's a little fuzzy what day she was actually reported missing, but JMO it was on Saturday- by a close friend of hers.

My impression has been that he showed up alone and they thought that was odd.

 

[hparker36]

I'm sorry if this has been previously stated, but do you know if the home was rented or owned? If owned, was Madi's name on the title?

Good question. What I do know is that she was looking for a new place to move to per hersister and he was in the process of moving out.

 

[hparker36]

No, I agree with you, the ex-boyfriend is the most likely suspect by a lot. And I have zero problem with the general public speculating that someone did something. Innocent until proven guilty is for the legal process, and not public speculation. But innocent until proven guilty in the eyes of the law is why I do have questions about how easy or transparent the legal process is for taking away someone’s children when that person has not been charged with any crimes. The extreme power of the state needs to be held to account. If CPS truly did find evidence of crimes or danger to the children in their home, obviously they should be removed. But if the state can just write a statement that there were crimes going on in the house and not have to provide evidence of that up front yet be able to take someone’s children for two months until a court hearing/trial is set then I take issue with that because it could happen to anyone.

They were not take away because LE thought crime took place . they were taken because the bio Dad had no ROP. Recognition of parentage.

 

[hparker36]

A few new things Ilearned in the interview with Megan linked below -

• Maddi planned to keep the kids as close to Adam as possible and would co-parent with him.
• Adam has his own car, but may not have had car seats. So they primarily used Maddi's van when together.
• The daycare the kids attended was in a private home. LE spoke with the woman who runs it, she said it was common that they came together for drop off.
• It wasn't common for them both to be there at pick-up howver. It was Maddi who did that.

Sister of Maddi Kingsbury updates case, shares details surrounding her disappearance

Megan Kingsbury says she and her family are waiting with "bated breath" until they learn where Maddi is, and the circumstances behind her disappearance.

www.kare11.com

Thank you for sharing this!

 

[hparker36]

TRANSCRIPTION OF MADELINE'S SISTER INTERVIEW WITH Nancy Grace

(Nancy plays clip from presser)

MEGAN - Madeline's a hard working and dedicated mother, as well as a grad student at the U of M and works for the Mayo Clinic. Family is everything to her and she's grown into an impressive and beautiful young woman. Madeline is many things, she's a mother, sister, daughter, best friend, grand daughter and a niece, it's a long list. She's a young mother of 5 yr. old A, 2 yr. old N. A is spunky and goofy and she loves to be crafty and creative. She's inherited her mother's kindness and curiousity about the world. Little N has turned into a chatterbox; can't tell what he says half the time. He loves to dance, he loves rock and roll and he was blessed with the red headed gene from my grandfather.

GRACE - Megan, first of all, tell me about your sister's children, her two babies. I believe they are.... I guess they're in pre-school, right?

MEGAN - Yeah, A attended a Montessori pre-school in Winona, and then N went to an in home day care in Winona as well.

GRACE - Tell me about her relationship with her children.

MEGAN - They were the light of her life. Constantly with them, constantly trying to discover new things to teach them. She really encouraged them to be their own little people. She was very much a 'yes' mom; wanted them to experience everything.

NANCY - You know, I was just thinking about them. One is 2 and one is 5 - how are they reacting to mommy not being there every single day?

MEGAN - You know, fortunately, they're very young. So, especially N, he's only 2. As far as them asking about her - once in a while, but they're doing really well, right now. As far as we can tell, they haven't really noticed any big difference.

NANCY - They must be surrounded by a lot of love right now.

MEGAN - Yes.

NANCY - ...and not even realise anything is out of the norm.

(plays clip from the Fox interview with Megan)

MEGAN - Since her first child was born, which is five years ago now, I talked to her multiple times on a daily basis, facetime, phone, text, even the rest of my family - she's in constant communication with us about every minute detail, so it's very unlike her.

The last communication that I had with her was the morning of Friday, March 31st. She had sent me a text at about 8:15 in the morning, regular texts for her - we were chuckling about a funny photo exchanged between us and that was the last communication with me or with any of my family, or with her other friends.

GRACE - Megan, so you guys were exchanging texts early that morning, as early as 8:15?

MEGAN - Yeah. We both start early in the morning. I personally, I start work at 7 am and she's up with the kids. So yeah, pretty much every morning, it's pretty pretty early contact with us.

GRACE - Let me understand her schedule Megan. Megan, in the morning - so she would get up, would she always drop the children, one at the home day care and one at the Montessori?

MEGAN - E went to the Montessori, gosh, I think maybe two or three days a week. The other days she went to the same in home day care as N.

GRACE - And Madeline would be the one to drop them off?

MEGAN - Yeah. Sometimes, I think, their father joined as well. I wasn't quite clear on how often but she definitely would always be there.

GRACE - So it was always her. Now who would pick them up?

MEGAN - I think, typically, it would be her or both parents. I think it kind of depended on her schedule.

GRACE - But almost always her and maybe the dad would also come?

MEGAN - Yes.

GRACE - Okay, the day that she went missing, who picked them up?

MEGAN - Their father.

GRACE - Okay, so that was covered. You exchanged a text with her early that morning, Megan - 8:15, did you hear from her after that?

MEGAN - I did not.

GRACE - Was that normal?

MEGAN - No. I mean, even if she can't talk or she's busy she'll sent a message saying so 'Hey, I'm busy, I'll talk to you later', but no, I didn't get anything else.

GRACE - And that was March 31st. correct?

MEGAN - Yes.

GRACE - Okay, March 31st. she goes missing, last heard from that morning at 8:15.

(Grace talks to an investigative reporter and a SAR expert about the search)

GRACE - What goes through your mind when you're hearing us talking about searching in this terrain?

MEGAN - You know, I've been out searching myself, in some more kind of remote areas: wildlife preserves, things like that. I've been down to visit, I've seen the difficulty in the terrain and I kind of look around and I'm like 'well, she could be anywhere' and it's hard to know where to search and a lot of people just aren't able to search that terrain effectively. So, it definitely worries me, every day.

GRACE - When you go to bed at night - what are your thoughts about where's your sister?

MEGAN - Just last night I was outside and I looked up at the sky and I'm just wondering if she's out there somewhere under the same sky, like 'where could she be?'. It's... a million things run through my mind, every night, and you want to hold on to a chance of hope that she's found okay. It's difficult the longer that this goes on.

GRACE - To John Lauritsen (investigative reporter), joining us. Was there any history of just, quote 'taking a break, or needing time to herself, anything like that? because I haven't found it.

REPORTER - No, not that we're aware of. I'm sure Megan and the family would be able to speak to that.

GRACE - Megan is there any such history?

MEGAN - There is not.

GRACE - I want you to hear more of what we know about Madeline, listen..

(plays another clip from the Fox interview with Megan)

MEGAN - There was some concern the evening of Friday, March 31st. My mom actually sent me a message asking if I had heard from my sister that day because my mom had sent some messages and had no response, and when she said that, I was kind of like, 'oh, I guess you're right'. She was supposed to come visit my house the next morning with her daughter and typically we would have discussed those plans since it was coming up. So, it was that evening when we started kind of connecting with her friends and seeing if anyone had heard from her.

GRACE - Megan how far away from Madeline do you live?

MEGAN - I live in the Minneapolis area, so it's about two hours from her home in Winona.

GRACE - So, to plan a trip - this isn't just like she's going around the corner. This is something... she'd have to get the children ready, in the car, snacks, all that and then drive two hours to see you and your family, correct?

MEGAN - Right.

GRACE - So, that was the plan, interesting. And no history at all of just leaving to go for a girl's weekend or time alone, nothing like that, right?

MEGAN - Right. I mean, if she needed a break, she'd come to my house but she'd still bring the kids and we'd kind of tag team and watch them, but no she never would leave them

GRACE - That morning - 8:15 am, that's when she's texting with her sister, Megan, she and the bio-dad drop the children at day care?

REPORTER - Correct.

GRACE - He tells cops he left Maddie's house at 10 am., for some reason, in her minivan. Okay, let me understand - that was when the decision was made that she did not go to work, because that's when she would go to work, I understand, between 8... after she drops the children. Did he bring her back to the house, is that what he's saying?

REPORTER - That's what we understand, through law enforcement, that's what he told them.

GRACE - Then he takes the Chrysler and then when he comes back with it, I don't know what.. to fill it with gas, I'm not sure. He gets back at 10 am. and she's not there. Is that correct?

REPORTER - He claims he left and came back, I believe, in the afternoon and she was not there. Now, law enforcement is telling us there's no evidence that she was picked up by anybody else, or that she might have just left the home and walked somewhere and that's according to the Winona Police Chief.

GRACE - Well, is that the terrain, Megan? Would she just leave and walk somewhere?

MEGAN - No, I mean, where her house is kind of situated, she's not really within walking distance of like a Target or anything.

GRACE - Did she walk, jog or bike, anything like that?

MEGAN - You know, she used to jog, I think it's been a while but she did used to jog, in the past.

GRACE - But not recently?

MEGAN - No, I don't believe so.

GRACE - So, I'm just trying to figure out... we were covering the case of Eliza Fletcher, a Memphis mom, who was out at like, 4 o'clock in the morning, jogging; that was her routine and a lot of terrains like - you go out on the street it's like I-75, you can't walk or jog or bike there. Or, it could be a country road like Molly Tibbets, where she would run every day. So, is the terrain near.. did she have a home, apartment, condo what?

MEGAN - They lived in a town home it was kind of one of those divided in half one's, so they had a connected neighbour.

GRACE - Okay, and the bio-dad's living in the home, correct?

MEGAN - Yes.

GRACE - Okay, so he leaves with the car. Yeah, you're right, Lauritsen; I had that 10:30 am in my head, that he came back, but her vehicle was sighted between 10:30 and 1:30 pm that's where I'm getting 10:30. Is that correct?

REPORTER - That is correct, yes.

GRACE - Who sighted her vehicle?

REPORTER - That was spotted around town, I believe there's more than one witness to that and now what law enforcement is trying to get people to do, since we've been down there, is - have people check, it's called the Highway 43 corridor, that's where that van is that's spotted, or was spotted around that time.

GRACE - Multiple sightings of her van around town, but did anybody see who was driving it?

(Reporter talks about LE's request for door cams, trails cams etc. from the general public)

GRACE - You're telling me people in the town of Winona think they saw, not just A blue Town & Country, HER blue Town & Country, is that what they think?

REPORTER - That's what law enforcement has told us. They believe that van... more than one person saw that van driving in that timeframe we talked about.

GRACE - What was distinct about her van? Megan, what if anything is distinct? John, anybody jump in and tell me.

REPORTER - Well, the fact that it was a Town & Country Chrysler van... and honestly Nancy, I don't know how popular those are in Winona, Minnesota, but in that timeframe that van was spotted and that's an excellent question - is that van... do we know if that was hers for sure? I'm guessing, but law enforcement says it is.

GRACE - Megan, what about it, what about her van?

MEGAN - You know, law enforcement has some footage from a gas station in Rushford, Minnesota, I believe it was a Kwik Trip, of the van coming and going. So, I know for sure they've seen it in Rushford. Other than that, I haven't heard if there's been any other footage. I know they're looking at semi trucks; those have cameras, kind of all around, they're really trying any avenue to see if they can get footage.

GRACE - Where is Rushford as it relates to Winona?

REPORTER - It's pretty close, 20 miles would be the maximum.

GRACE - And what time of the day was her van spotted in Rushford?

MEGAN - I want to say probably between like 10:30 and 11ish.

REPORTER - Yeah, I believe you're right on that Megan. I think it was in the morning still, before the noon hours that that was spotted.

GRACE - But what time does bio-dad say he brought the car back?

MEGAN - I believe that he said he returned home around 1 pm.

GRACE - So, that could have been him driving around? That doesn't really help us, does it? Okay, where's the vehicle right now John?

REPORTER - Law enforcement has searched that vehicle. I do not know if they gave that back to the family.

GRACE - Do you know Megan?

MEGAN - I believe law enforcement still has the vehicle.

(Nancy talks to a CSI expert who mentions that Madeline's FB page shows she was looking for a new place to live)

GRACE - Megan, is that correct, that she was looking for a new place to live?

MEGAN - Yes, that's correct.

GRACE - Why?

MEGAN - Her and the father of the children were not continuing their relationship.

GRACE - They were splitting?

MEGAN - Yes. So, she was looking for a new place, close to where she already lived, close to the day care, close to the preschool. I know she was looking over in Goodview, which is the next town over. So yeah, she was looking for a new place.

GRACE - The family of Madeline Kingsbury has now issued a $50,000 reward. Tip line - 507-457-6288. Please help us find Madeline.

Thank you for posting.

 

[youarentsilly]

A Minnesota judge has ruled the children of a missing woman will remain in county custody rather than be released to their father who says he is cooperating with law enforcement "at every turn," nearly two weeks after the disappearance of 26-year-old Madeline Kingsbury.

Children of missing Minnesota mother Madeline Kingsbury won't be released to their father and will remain in county custody

A Minnesota judge has ruled the children of a missing woman will remain in county custody rather than be released to their father who says he is cooperating with law

www.news8000.com

 

[swanniee11]

A few new things Ilearned in the interview with Megan linked below -

• Maddi planned to keep the kids as close to Adam as possible and would co-parent with him.
• Adam has his own car, but may not have had car seats. So they primarily used Maddi's van when together.
• The daycare the kids attended was in a private home. LE spoke with the woman who runs it, she said it was common that they came together for drop off.
• It wasn't common for them both to be there at pick-up howver. It was Maddi who did that.

Sister of Maddi Kingsbury updates case, shares details surrounding her disappearance

Megan Kingsbury says she and her family are waiting with "bated breath" until they learn where Maddi is, and the circumstances behind her disappearance.

www.kare11.com

A lot of info in the video, her poor sister seems absolutely exhausted trying to answer questions, think of what she can and cannot say. What I got out of this is there's a 2nd car and she has been known to work from home which I had read in the beginning but it went MIA. IMO

 

[hparker36]

I need a drink before listening to Nancy Grace and I don't drink!

I like Nancy Grace.

 

[Knox]

They were not take away because LE thought crime took place . they were taken because the bio Dad had no ROP. Recognition of parentage.

That's not a wholly true statement. In the court petition filed by Winona County, on page 3, 10 c states -

That the children EF and NF, are in need of protection or services within the meaning ofMinn. Stat. 260C007, Subd. (9) in that the behavior, condition, or environment is such as to be injurious or dangerous to the children or others. An injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not limited to, the exposure ofthe children to criminal activity in the children's home.

Madeline Kingsbury: Court docs, Minnesota police contradict claims from father of missing woman's kids

Court documents revealed Adam Fravel doesn't have custodial rights of the children that he had with missing Minnesota mom Madeline Kingsbury and allege a volatile standoff with Fravel.

www.foxnews.com

 

[hparker36]

SBM

Houses up and down the street from where Maddi lived, may have doorbell cams or security cameras that LE has looked at, which don't show Maddi walking past. These cameras may also show no other "unknown" vehicles coming and going.

Unless there is a camera pointing directly at Maddi's townhouse, no one knows what happened between 8:15 AM and 1:30 PM as far as who may have entered or exited the house during that time.

Her phone, and ID and cell and jacket being there does not mean that she placed them there.

 

[hparker36]

This may not be a fair judgment. To say he d didn’t have “joint custody” is comparing apples to oranges. AF and MK were not as yet separated physically. They were living together and by all accounts he had been living with and raising the children from birth. AF may have been completely blind-sided by this and not realized his custody was in question, having raised them as their father since birth. I can imagine if something happened to a partner be it accident or heart attack or what have you and CPS showed up to take your kids you would also be upset. That being said, I wonder if CPS only shows up in situations like this if there is another party asking for custody or making CPS aware of the situation. Not saying it’s inappropriate or I wouldn’t do the same thing if my family member was missing. Just saying I understand his anger/actions at his children being taken.

His anger should be all about the missing mother of his children and his cry for help to find her.

 

[youarentsilly]

That's not a wholly true statement. In the court petition filed by Winona County, on page 3, 10 c states -

That the children EF and NF, are in need of protection or services within the meaning ofMinn. Stat. 260C007, Subd. (9) in that the behavior, condition, or environment is such as to be injurious or dangerous to the children or others. An injurious or dangerous environment may include, but is not limited to, the exposure ofthe children to criminal activity in the children's home.

Madeline Kingsbury: Court docs, Minnesota police contradict claims from father of missing woman's kids

Court documents revealed Adam Fravel doesn't have custodial rights of the children that he had with missing Minnesota mom Madeline Kingsbury and allege a volatile standoff with Fravel.

www.foxnews.com

Is that an allegation or a finding?