MO - Duck boat carrying 31 tourists capsizes, killing 17, near Branson, July 2018

[gitana1]

Easy to take that out of the context of the entire forecast discussion. This was just a few paragraphs later, in the same forecast discussion:

“Inspection of RAP forecast soundings indicates that supercell structures (possibly splitting) are in play this afternoon and this evening across central Missouri. Thus, large hail would be a concern if this panned out. High 0-3 km theta-e differentials (30-35 Kelvin) will also support strong cold pool conglomeration and a damaging wind threat with storms that congeal into line segments and move southeast across the region.”

They nailed it! Think they could have done that in the 1800s? Heck no! You seem to be defending the boat company here and bashing meteorologists. Several weather experts are all saying the boat company screwed up, and these 17 people died needlessly. They are right.

Look, weather is at its face powerful and in a lot of ways unpredictable, and sometimes forecasts do not pan out, but the weather forecasting technology we have today is unreal, and usually more accurate than not. There was a severe thunderstorm warning issued. That means the storm had formed and was on its way. That cannot be ignored.

For anyone who enjoys history, but not the boring kind, there's a very engaging non fiction book called The Children's Blizzard which is about a catastrophic blizzard that killed many people, many of whom were kids, in the upper mid-west/west in the late 1800's. (Might have been 1888).

It discusses meteorology and how that evolved. (I promise it's not boring).

Regardless, there seems to have been plenty of warning that there were storms coming. I don't think those boats should ever take a chance due to how un-seaworthy they are.

Other boats? Different story.

 

[24Roses]

NBC nightly news did a story a few minutes ago. A 17-year-old lifeguard said that that he observed life jackets floating in the water, so they were not being worn by the victims.

 

[sewwhat]

Two horrid U.S. sailing disasters from Smithsonian:

A Spectacle of Horror – The Burning of the General Slocum

The Eastland Disaster Killed More Passengers Than the Titanic and the Lusitania. Why Has It Been Forgotten?

 

[gitana1]

This probably goes back to people not visually seeing the dangers, saying, oh we will be back on land in plenty of time before the storm hits. Some have commented that the water was calm - then all heck started. I really cannot come to a conclusion to who to put blame on, only that it happened and they were trying to get back to land. I have to give the drivers credit for that, one even died. But the Belle was out there as well as others in their own personal boats. Does that area have a patrol that tells people to get off the water and park their boats?

The Belle was on shore, docked. People on the Belle helped rescue the duck boat survivors and the Belle was used as a staging area. It was not on the open water.

Moreover, it is not a duckboat.

We've all seen the video by now. Those things aren't seaworthy. They are a hazard and at high risk for sinking in rough weather. That is not the case with other kinds of boats.

I live in Central MO. Columbia to be specific. It doesn't get much more Midwest than that. I-70 literally goes diagonal down the center of Columbia. I could not tell you how many forecasts are split between whether you live north of 70 or south. Some 20 miles apart. Add that to how quickly and how quickly weather can change. If we followed every forecast to the letter we would never get anything done. Of course I am not responsible for 30 lives either. In any given year we have about 30,000 college students not aware of this, and it takes them about a year to catch on.

If I really want to know where a storm is in my area, I go to my computer and dial up an interactive radar that updates itself.

JMO

Right. When you're in charge of 30 lives and deciding whether to launch an unwieldy, un-seaworthy vessel, you better know exactly what's happening with the weather.

Theta-e? Cold pool conglomeration? Just say "storm is coming around this time, high winds so stay off the water." It's buried in text that the average person will stop reading well before they get to the important part. They don't even say what windy is.

Duck boat operators and companies need to be better than an "average person" when it comes to understanding weather for goodness sake. They are operating a water craft with passengers. They darn well better know how to read forecasts and understand them.

However, to expect meteorologists to always be able to predict precisely and exactly when a specific storm is going to hit and where is asking much. Weather patterns shift quickly.

Regardless, it seems even "average" people understood there was rough weather forecast.


Bottom line, there was a high possibility of storms forecast for that area that morning - and a vessel of that nature should never have taken the risk because it is easily capsized.

This was utterly preventable:

Some people — from veteran meteorologists across the country to citizens in the Branson area — question why that warning apparently was not heeded in time. And they’re not buying that the storm came out of nowhere.

Debbie Mohling, a 25-year Branson resident, said everyone knew a storm was likely.

“They never should have been out on the water,” she said. “We knew a storm was coming in. I feel like it’s a tragedy that should not have happened.”

From a Kansas City Star article:



Marshall Shepherd

✔@DrShepherd2013
#duckboat tragedy was completely preventable. This is not 1901. We have satellites, advanced radars, good weather models, all short-term weather information showed that storms approaching well before the boat was on the water.....Please act on weather information not hope

Elisa Raffa@Elisa_Raffa
Replying to @DrShepherd2013 @ametsoc
Wind reports started in KS. Springfield clocked 74 mph way before the storm got to Branson. Watch was in effect from 11:30AM. I've been so upset over how preventable this was.

6:20 AM - Jul 20, 2018

Weather Service issued warnings of excessive winds before duck boat sank, killing 17

 

[gregjrichards]

I’m so sorry the death toll is now 17. I remember seeing one of these Duck boats on an episode of The Little Couple recently. You would never imagine a terrible tragedy’s like this could happen as an unsuspecting tourist.

What impact will this tragedy have on these rides in the future?

 

[gitana1]

I’m so sorry the death toll is now 17. I remember seeing one of these Duck boats on an episode of The Little Couple recently. You would never imagine a terrible tragedy’s like this could happen as an unsuspecting tourist.

What impact will this tragedy have on these rides in the future?

Has the Little Couple returned? I LOVE that show but it was gone for a long time.

I think people will be more nervous going on those vessels now. It's so sad.

 

[gregjrichards]

Has the Little Couple returned? I LOVE that show but it was gone for a long time.

I think people will be more nervous going on those vessels now. It's so sad.

Hi gitana. Yes it has returned they just showed the season filmed last year here in the U.K. There was a huge lawsuit between the production company, The Little Couple and TLC over ownership of the show. I think the lawsuit has settled now but the show was gone a long time.

I don’t know what season is being shown in the U.S. the one recently shown included a visit here in Scotland and London it was a good season. I hope you manage to see it.

The family had an enjoyable time on the Duck Boat on the show it is a shame it ended so devastatingly for the families in this terrible tragedy.

 

[fabvab]

Interesting read about the Duck Boat safety. I"ll never get on one again. I actually rode the ones in Branson about 25 yrs ago, and the driver even picked me out to come and sit in his chair and steer. These are probably the same one I rode on. I then rode one in Alaska about 10 yrs. Scary to think. Praying for these poor families.

Duck boats' safety record, agency's fears don't jibe - CNN.com
From the article:
Citing "an unacceptable level of risk to passenger safety," the NTSB recommended in May 2002 that duck operators and refurbishers "provide reserve buoyancy through passive means," such as installing watertight compartments or buoyant foam in the hull. Modern boats include such features.
The NTSB also found that several of the Miss Majestic victims were trapped under the vessel's canopy as it rapidly sank and recommended that duck canopies be removed or modified to come off easily in an emergency.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Try getting a cruise ship going to Cozumel to turn around when a passenger goes overboard...….yep...….NOPE, lost at sea...….I knew this family

I don't know if anyone reaaally realized that Duck boat was going to sink though but I could be wrong!

so tragic!!

Prayers to the families and those survivors...…..they'll never forget this...

Cariis, the smartphone video was taken by a diner in a lakeside restaurant, but I feel your pain about witnessing something so horrible and being ignored.

 

[fabvab]

Tia and nephew survived but 9 other members of her family died including her husband and children.

Snipped From article:
Tia says the captain of the boat told them “don’t worry about grabbing the life jackets – you won’t need them,” so none of the family members grabbed them.
“However in doing that, when it was time to grab them, it was too late and I believe that a lot of people could have been spared,” said Tia.

Several members of Indiana family among those killed in Branson duck boat crash

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Been on boats all my adult life

I would never ride in a boat with an enclosure, for just this reason...I guess people think because you pay for these services that it's safe

Accidents do happen but no sense in ensuring your death if it does

I'm surprised they didn't radio for assistance.....or did they? OR were they just complacent, been doing this so long, kind of thing

Unnecessary is what it was...….so so tragic...…..

Interesting read about the Duck Boat safety. I"ll never get on one again. I actually rode the ones in Branson about 25 yrs ago, and the driver even picked me out to come and sit in his chair and steer. These are probably the same one I rode on. I then rode one in Alaska about 10 yrs. Scary to think. Praying for these poor families.

Duck boats' safety record, agency's fears don't jibe - CNN.com
From the article:
Citing "an unacceptable level of risk to passenger safety," the NTSB recommended in May 2002 that duck operators and refurbishers "provide reserve buoyancy through passive means," such as installing watertight compartments or buoyant foam in the hull. Modern boats include such features.
The NTSB also found that several of the Miss Majestic victims were trapped under the vessel's canopy as it rapidly sank and recommended that duck canopies be removed or modified to come off easily in an emergency.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Hey Im going to check that book out...…..and yes I was wondering if they checked the weather forecast beforehand, SHOULD HAVE, always...…...but I think complacency is the cause, sad about the life jackets, man I would have had mine on and my chidlrens on first! Regardless!

For anyone who enjoys history, but not the boring kind, there's a very engaging non fiction book called The Children's Blizzard which is about a catastrophic blizzard that killed many people, many of whom were kids, in the upper mid-west/west in the late 1800's. (Might have been 1888).

It discusses meteorology and how that evolved. (I promise it's not boring).

Regardless, there seems to have been plenty of warning that there were storms coming. I don't think those boats should ever take a chance due to how un-seaworthy they are.

Other boats? Different story.

 

[fabvab]

It gets worse...the exhausts are on the front of these boats which means if your exhaust takes on water, your engine seizes up. They need to ban them.
Duck boat inspector found boats wouldn’t meet federal standard

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The NTSB proposed safety regulations for duck boats two decades ago — they were ignored

 

[gitana1]

Interesting read about the Duck Boat safety. I"ll never get on one again. I actually rode the ones in Branson about 25 yrs ago, and the driver even picked me out to come and sit in his chair and steer. These are probably the same one I rode on. I then rode one in Alaska about 10 yrs. Scary to think. Praying for these poor families.

Duck boats' safety record, agency's fears don't jibe - CNN.com
From the article:
Citing "an unacceptable level of risk to passenger safety," the NTSB recommended in May 2002 that duck operators and refurbishers "provide reserve buoyancy through passive means," such as installing watertight compartments or buoyant foam in the hull. Modern boats include such features.
The NTSB also found that several of the Miss Majestic victims were trapped under the vessel's canopy as it rapidly sank and recommended that duck canopies be removed or modified to come off easily in an emergency.

I just heard a piece on the radio about them. The lawyer for plaintiffs of a prior duck boat accident said they're death traps. As others have stated, he also said 15 years ago the NTSB said duck boats should get rid of the canopies that trap people...

They also had a boat operator interview. He said there's no way they didn't have a lot of advanced notice of the weather. He said they have apps and constantly read the updates.

 

[gitana1]

Hi gitana. Yes it has returned they just showed the season filmed last year here in the U.K. There was a huge lawsuit between the production company, The Little Couple and TLC over ownership of the show. I think the lawsuit has settled now but the show was gone a long time.

I don’t know what season is being shown in the U.S. the one recently shown included a visit here in Scotland and London it was a good season. I hope you manage to see it.

The family had an enjoyable time on the Duck Boat on the show it is a shame it ended so devastatingly for the families in this terrible tragedy.

I saw the Scotland episodes. Maybe I forgot the duck boat one!

 

[fabvab]

For anyone who enjoys history, but not the boring kind, there's a very engaging non fiction book called The Children's Blizzard which is about a catastrophic blizzard that killed many people, many of whom were kids, in the upper mid-west/west in the late 1800's. (Might have been 1888).

It discusses meteorology and how that evolved. (I promise it's not boring).

Regardless, there seems to have been plenty of warning that there were storms coming. I don't think those boats should ever take a chance due to how un-seaworthy they are.

Other boats? Different story.

This book will be my next read. Thanks for telling us about it.

 

[Falcon500]

I just heard a piece on the radio about them. The lawyer for plaintiffs of a prior duck boat accident said they're death traps. As others have stated, he also said 15 years ago the NTSB said duck boats should get rid of the canopies that trap people...

They also had a boat operator interview. He said there's no way they didn't have a lot of advanced notice of the weather. He said they have apps and constantly read the updates.

I saw the owner of the boat company on tv this evening. He claimed that the storm came out of "nowhere" which is total nonsense. A severe thunderstorm warning had been issued for the area a half an hour before. No operator of a tourist boat like this should be without a phone that has a radar ap. The loop was played and a severe thunderstorm was shown on the radar app bearing down on the lake. No one in his right mind would have left the dock after seeing that.

I constantly hear about coaches, athletic directors, school officials, etc, who start outdoor ball games only to have them washed out or something worse happen and then later claim that they didn't know about the weather. In this age of handheld radar machines there is no excuse for not knowing when a severe storm is getting close.

 

[gregjrichards]

Officials have been warning tourists and operators of the dangers associated with duck boats for nearly two decades.

A report issued by the National Transportation Safety Board after 13 people were killed when their duck boat, the Miss Majestic, sank in Arkansas in 1999, called for the removal of canopies, and the mandatory use of life jackets.

When 17 people died in Branson on Thursday night, drowning in Table Rock Lake when their duck boat capsized in a severe storm, the canopy was on, and passengers claim they had been told life jackets were not necessary.

Now Andrew Duffy, a Philadelphia lawyer whose firm has represented families in accidents involving duck boats, is calling for the amphibious vehicles to be banned altogether.

'Duck boats are death traps on both on water and on land,' he told USA Today.

'They should be completely outlawed.

Lawyer calls for duck boats to be BANNED after 17 passengers drown in Missouri | Daily Mail Online

I totally agree.

 

[gitana1]

This book will be my next read. Thanks for telling us about it.

I have an incredible library of the best books ever. If anyone wants engaging suggestions, let me
Know.