GUILTY MO - Elizabeth Guenther, 18 mos, beaten to death, Lee's Summit, 8 Feb 2010

[CHICANA]

Frustration, mad at the mother, not equipped with any parenting skills, pride, an easy target, hungover?

This poor little girl. jn like you said we keep seeing this all the time. It appears and I just say appears as it's only a few pictures of this guy and his baby girl, but it looks like he's working two jobs, doing his music thing and then he's "parenting". Meanwhile he probably dislikes the mother of this beautiful angel. He probably felt a need to "prove" he can be a dad. Mix that in with anger issues and a baby with asthma, and maybe an ear infection or some other illness and you have this horrific mix.

In no way am I even remotely excusing the murder of his own child in such a violent rage and as you said "Call someone". I'm just looking for a "WHY"? What would provoke a violent attack like that on the dear baby you profess to love so much? They are WORDS! Words written on a da*n social network.

I'm thinking back to the days when I had a baby that age and if I'd have been working two jobs outside the home and still wanting to "jam with the boys" and hated my childs father I doubt I'd have time at all to post on a Myspace.

I don't know. I can't even begin to fathom. However, I do recall sleepless nights. Frustration over colic and ear infections. I was older than 23, but I can remember calling my mom or gram saying "O.K. this is two days straight now. What do I do?"

What any normal human being knows what you do NOT do is freakin punch a little baby in the head. Waits two hours to call 911. This guy should have never been left alone with a little baby.

And, IMO it is ok to step away. Some might not agree, but when my daughter called crying because my grandson wouldn't stop crying (he was pretty gassy), I told her to put him in his crib and step outside on the porch for 5 or 10 minutes. Take a few deep breaths, calm down, and try again.

 

[kbl8201]

We will :crazy:

A local poster commented that "the mother tried to get his visitation rights taken away but they told her that if she were to deny him visits with Lizzy, he could get a lawyer and she could go to jail for it."

http://www.kmbc.com/news/22521985/detail.html

i'll load the guns for you

why doesnt this surprise me that the court screwed up? :banghead:

 

[kbl8201]

And, IMO it is ok to step away. Some might not agree, but when my daughter called crying because my grandson wouldn't stop crying (he was pretty gassy), I told her to put him in his crib and step outside on the porch for 5 or 10 minutes. Take a few deep breaths, calm down, and try again.

heh i said that about walking away or callning someone earlier.....
i guess i wouldnt make a lousy dad afterall

 

[jjenny]

i'll load the guns for you

why doesnt this surprise me that the court screwed up? :banghead:

Court? One of the articles said he had an informal arrangement with the child's mother to watch the child on weekends. "Informal" doesn't sound to me like anything mandated by a court.

 

[CHICANA]

i'll load the guns for you

why doesnt this surprise me that the court screwed up? :banghead:

Because you've been following the Alford case ?
We don't know for sure that the poster is correct, but it won't surprise me either.
In reality all children can't be protected. Even if the system we have wasn't so screwed up, children would still die. You can't always detect evil.
Kids are taken from parents because the house is a mess or they smoke pot and then end up missing or killed by their foster or adoptive parents. Kids are left at home and killed by their bio-parents.
There are obvious cases where the kids should have been removed and obvious cases where they would have been better off in their own homes.
What really makes me angry are the cases where the court's force visitation with abusive parents and if the non-abusive parent doesn't comply they end up losing the child to the abuser.
If her mom was forced to allow visitation, the blood of this child is on that Judge's hands.
We need to find out and make sure the judge is reminded on a regular basis of the consequences of his/ her decision

 

[CHICANA]

Court? One of the articles said he had an informal arrangement with the child's mother to watch the child on weekends. "Informal" doesn't sound to me like anything mandated by a court.

We don't know who the source was for that article.
We can't confirm that there was a court order either, but it does sound like the person that wrote it knows the mother.
The reporter on the news said that the mother reported the abuse but charges weren't filed.

 

[jjenny]

We don't know who the source was for that article.
We can't confirm that there was a court order either, but it does sound like the person that wrote it knows the mother.
The reporter on the news said that the mother reported the abuse but charges weren't filed.

We don't know who the person who wrote it is either.

 

[CHICANA]

heh i said that about walking away or callning someone earlier.....
i guess i wouldnt make a lousy dad afterall

Luckily my babies weren't criers. That changed when they could walk & talk. I'm glad my youngest never ended up with any head injuries since she used to throw herself on the ground whenever she didn't get her way. Once she threw herself on the concrete because her big sister didn't take her to the corner store.
She was kinda spoiled because she would puke every time she cried. We tried not to upset her.

I'm sure you'd be a great dad, if you still want to have kids after hearing about my little angels.

It's harder to get away from them when they can follow you.

 

[CHICANA]

We don't know who the person who wrote it is either.

You're right.
I do know that when my daughter got a restraining order against her boyfriend in the same court, they didn't order him to pay any child support for their son, but they ordered that he be allowed visitation.

 

[kbl8201]

Because you've been following the Alford case ?
We don't know for sure that the poster is correct, but it won't surprise me either.
In reality all children can't be protected. Even if the system we have wasn't so screwed up, children would still die. You can't always detect evil.
Kids are taken from parents because the house is a mess or they smoke pot and then end up missing or killed by their foster or adoptive parents. Kids are left at home and killed by their bio-parents.
There are obvious cases where the kids should have been removed and obvious cases where they would have been better off in their own homes.
What really makes me angry are the cases where the court's force visitation with abusive parents and if the non-abusive parent doesn't comply they end up losing the child to the abuser.
If her mom was forced to allow visitation, the blood of this child is on that Judge's hands.
We need to find out and make sure the judge is reminded on a regular basis of the consequences of his/ her decision

im following too many cases here......there starting to run together

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

RIP sweet Angel.

 

[CHICANA]

This was a comment on the Pitch's article.
The poster gives her full name.

http://blogs.pitch.com/plog/2010/02/mark_guenther_charged_in_the_death_of_15-month-old_daughter.php

I want everyone to know that The mother and this MOnster were not in a realtionship. Over the last yea she has delt w/ her daughter coming home w/ countless injuries and reported EVERY SINGLE ONE to police DFS and even had to take her daughter to doctors and hospitals. she did everything she could to keep her duaghter from him in a legal manner.

 

[kbl8201]

i have no doubt she did.

i cant say i could advocate her breaking the law to keep her from him, cause then she'd end up in jail and the sob would still have killed her anyways

 

[CHICANA]

Another comment from the same article
This poster also gives her name and phone # at the Center for Judicial Excellence.

Yes, this is only the latest COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE tragedy to occur in recent weeks. Baby Elizabeth is the FOURTH child in 2 weeks in the US (3rd under the age of 2) to be killed by her father after the family courts REFUSED to protect these children by stopping visitation with the fathers when the mothers brought legitimate proof of abuse and danger to the children.

 

[CHICANA]

i have no doubt she did.

i cant say i could advocate her breaking the law to keep her from him, cause then she'd end up in jail and the sob would still have killed her anyways

It would be hard to run away without the financial means to do so, and once caught, she'd not only go to jail but he would have been given sole custody.
Likewise for refusing visitation.
The cop-out diagnosis, 'parental alienation' (it's not even acknowleged by psychiatric assoc) forces parents to send their children into the arms of their abusers or lose them.

 

[prayers4caylee]

i vote we donate the dad's organs now......witouth anasthesia

I second that vote!!!! What a sick monster!!! :furious: That poor baby, may she rest in peace!!!!

 

[mimimama5]

All I can say is DAMN him! I might get a timeout for even that, but I'm just so sick of hearing the same story over and over again. This case makes two sweet little babies in less than a month in my home state. What in the world could a baby do to make you so angry? I've got 2 active toddlers at home, and 2 bigger kids. I have never once gotten so angry at any of them that I felt the need to strike them. I do swat a hand if they are reaching for something dangerous and theres no way to get them away from it in time. But that is a panic reaction, not an anger reaction. I was disgusted to see pictures of this sweet baby Lizzy in her highchair on his myspace.... it was just too much to see where such horrific abuse took place. I don't know how to change the system here, but we obviously need to do something to protect children in their own homes! Home should be the safest, happiest, most loving place for a baby, NEVER NEVER should it be a place where their abusers carry out horrifc acts! I'm so angry I can't even type!

 

[alsmom]

And, IMO it is ok to step away. Some might not agree, but when my daughter called crying because my grandson wouldn't stop crying (he was pretty gassy), I told her to put him in his crib and step outside on the porch for 5 or 10 minutes. Take a few deep breaths, calm down, and try again.

I totally agree. I must admit I did it. I could not take my son's crying anymore. The emotions were running high. I had a baby that had a clean diaper, was fed, didn't appear to have a tummy ache, had no temperature and he was wailing so loud it was deafening. I had a sense of helplessness that was overwhelming and quickly turning into extreme frustration. I was feeling so out of sorts that I finally went outside and could still hear him. I turned the lawnmower on and mowed the front lawn in record time. I went back in the house to a sweaty baby that had made real tears for the first time. I felt awful but at least he was asleep. I never did figure out what was wrong with him.

 

[Rayemonde]

He pleaded guilty to 2nd degree murder on the 1St of September 2010. He was sentenced to 30 years. He also pleaded guilty to 1St Degree endangering the welfare of a child (7 years) and Abuse of a child resulting.in death (30 years).

https://www.courts.mo.gov/casenet/cases/charges.do