MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #12

[bigflaw]

The last I heard was that he had been taken out of school. that would make sense for his protection.

In my opinion, if the BF was directly involved in the murder, he would have already been charged. There is absolutely no reason not to have done that by now. The most involvement I see is potentially digging the holes. I say holes because if he did not know for a fact that she intended to place a human body in one or more of them, they would not have been "graves" at the time. So, purely speculating, if they had dug holes together for the purposes of using them for themselves, or rabbits, or a gold treasure chest, the BF would not be culpable at all in this case. If he is, in fact, in custody, his involvement may not be particularly clear and may come only as a result of testimony given at the trial. But like I said, if they had any evidence linking him to the crime, or crime scene even, he would already have been charged. Plus, even if AB testifies that they dug holes together for that purpose, it's his word against a murderer's. Tough case. I honestly think if there were more to know regarding this, and something was imminently coming out through the media, we would know by now. Look at how much was known before they officially released her name. And now all of the sudden they're holding a gem for Fox News? My :twocents: says, "Nah.."

 

[mixologist74]

In my opinion, if the BF was directly involved in the murder, he would have already been charged. There is absolutely no reason not to have done that by now. The most involvement I see is potentially digging the holes. I say holes because if he did not know for a fact that she intended to place a human body in one or more of them, they would not have been "graves" at the time. So, purely speculating, if they had dug holes together for the purposes of using them for themselves, or rabbits, or a gold treasure chest, the BF would not be culpable at all in this case. If he is, in fact, in custody, his involvement may not be particularly clear and may come only as a result of testimony given at the trial. But like I said, if they had any evidence linking him to the crime, or crime scene even, he would already have been charged. Plus, even if AB testifies that they dug holes together for that purpose, it's his word against a murderer's. Tough case. I honestly think if there were more to know regarding this, and something was imminently coming out through the media, we would know by now. Look at how much was known before they officially released her name. And now all of the sudden they're holding a gem for Fox News? My :twocents: says, "Nah.."

If you think about it all, he may have had a lot more involvement than digging the holes. If Alyssa didn't come home with blood on her clothing the night of the murder, then there would be a reason why. Suppose this other boy did the actual stabbing part of it? It would make sense to me because it took 2 days for LE to question and arrest AB for it. Don't you think if she had come home covered in blood this might have happened the night OF the murder, rather than two days later? LE had to have visited the home of AB that night, and I believe it was reported that they did.
As I said before, the boy may not have been questioned harshly in regards to what happened or where he was because they already had a "confession". Just throwing in my :twocents: here.

 

[gliving]

I haven't found their marriage record yet. I've mainly been searching through the records for the guardianship that was petitioned for in CA and if CB had any kind of criminal record in CA.

Does MB have the same maiden name as KNP?

 

[droptoplesabre]

If you think about it all, he may have had a lot more involvement than digging the holes. If Alyssa didn't come home with blood on her clothing the night of the murder, then there would be a reason why. Suppose this other boy did the actual stabbing part of it? It would make sense to me because it took 2 days for LE to question and arrest AB for it. Don't you think if she had come home covered in blood this might have happened the night OF the murder, rather than two days later? LE had to have visited the home of AB that night, and I believe it was reported that they did.
As I said before, the boy may not have been questioned harshly in regards to what happened or where he was because they already had a "confession". Just throwing in my :twocents: here.

hi folks..i've thaught this before,and i think it still,,AB just dont look "big" enough to have done "all" that she is reported doing..and the "blood" thing, why didnt she come home with it on her,or mud for that matter,,we all know it'd been raining so much in october here that it (i believe) was a record amount for that month..and digging in mud is TOUGH to say it mildly.this whole case dont add up. a petite 15 Y/O girl,,i dont see being able to dig 2 "holes", big enough for a body anyway, by herself. ofcorse,all this is only my opinion. this also dont change my mind that she is where she should be,and should stay,,for a very long time.i just dont understand why they havent arrested the guy,,unless they have and we just dont know it yet.JMO again.

 

[danni]

See I guess her size as far as doing it alone including digging two graves/holes did not even cross my mind. I am farely small. When I was about her age I might not have been digging holes in the ground and thinking about filling them with a body but I was helping my uncle haul hay and moving 100 pound hay bails around. when I say I am farley small what I should say is I am 5'2" and back then I weight about 115 pounds (I have had kids since then so not no more.) Did I LIKE moving 100 pounds of hay at a time. HE!! no. But I did it because it was good money. I was determined to do it and make the money I needed to make a purchase I wanted. I think if a person, anyone, wants something bad enough they will do whatever it takes to get it, that includes digging two graves.

I wonder if the family had any kind of equipment that would have aided in her grave digging experience? Something OTHER than a shovel.

 

[droptoplesabre]

See I guess her size as far as doing it alone including digging two graves/holes did not even cross my mind. I am farely small. When I was about her age I might not have been digging holes in the ground and thinking about filling them with a body but I was helping my uncle haul hay and moving 100 pound hay bails around. when I say I am farley small what I should say is I am 5'2" and back then I weight about 115 pounds (I have had kids since then so not no more.) Did I LIKE moving 100 pounds of hay at a time. HE!! no. But I did it because it was good money. I was determined to do it and make the money I needed to make a purchase I wanted. I think if a person, anyone, wants something bad enough they will do whatever it takes to get it, that includes digging two graves.

I wonder if the family had any kind of equipment that would have aided in her grave digging experience? Something OTHER than a shovel.

thats a good point,,determination will make almost anything possible. it seems to me tho,,that if "machinery" was used,,there would surely be tracks?

 

[petresq_algc]

I have a question for the attorneys on this thread. What are your thoughts on this hypothetical scenerio? What if AB and her bf were both involved? Let's say that each of them dug one of the graves. Let's say that AB strangled EO, which was the cause of death, then her boyfriend stabbed her and cut her throat. If an autopsy showed that EO had died before the knife was used, what charges could the bf face? TIA

 

[mixologist74]

I have a question for the attorneys on this thread. What are your thoughts on this hypothetical scenerio? What if AB and her bf were both involved? Let's say that each of them dug one of the graves. Let's say that AB strangled EO, which was the cause of death, then her boyfriend stabbed her and cut her throat. If an autopsy showed that EO had died before the knife was used, what charges could the bf face? TIA

I'm no attorney, but my opinion is that he could be charged as accessory.

 

[LogicalMinds]

If you think about it all, he may have had a lot more involvement than digging the holes. If Alyssa didn't come home with blood on her clothing the night of the murder, then there would be a reason why. Suppose this other boy did the actual stabbing part of it? It would make sense to me because it took 2 days for LE to question and arrest AB for it. Don't you think if she had come home covered in blood this might have happened the night OF the murder, rather than two days later? LE had to have visited the home of AB that night, and I believe it was reported that they did.
As I said before, the boy may not have been questioned harshly in regards to what happened or where he was because they already had a "confession". Just throwing in my :twocents: here.

Wow....I sure am seeing a LOT of speculation

amazing that they have a confession, but I guess some are sympathetic to Allyssa cause she is 1) under 16 *will be 16 in Jan
and 2) she is a girl

I could speculate that a purple people eater came along...or that the moon was in jupiter or whatever, but the facts seem pretty clear that Allysa killed little Elizabeth and it seems to be a case of clear premeditation

some of the listed "cases" on the article about teens who kill had some sort of (twisted) motivation..ie, jealousy, rivalry for a boyfriend

but this case seems to be just a "thrill" kill to "see what it feels like"

I think Allyssa is most like the "collie" murder in Australia
did she act alone ? So far it seems that way

maybe the boy is just "sticking up for her" like some other young "fans" are doing on the web

I will wait and see...till I see different I agree that Allyssa is right where she needs to be, and trying her as an adult is the ONLY thing that makes sense since I feel it would be very dangerous for her to be out in 5 years, scot free and with a sealed juvenile record

I sure would not want to be around her, who would>?

My personal guess is that IF Allyssa was a boy the sympathy would be much less ...JMO of course

 

[MDATCA]

I am a bit confused about everything.

AB only confessed when her back was against the wall with the written evidence. So wouldn't it stand to reason that whatever it is would mention boyfriend as well?

I wish we knew what kind of evidence they have from the scene. I wonder if it hadn't been for the written piece of evidence that led them to AB would she and possibly others gotten away with it?

 

[not_my_kids]

I have a question for the attorneys on this thread. What are your thoughts on this hypothetical scenerio? What if AB and her bf were both involved? Let's say that each of them dug one of the graves. Let's say that AB strangled EO, which was the cause of death, then her boyfriend stabbed her and cut her throat. If an autopsy showed that EO had died before the knife was used, what charges could the bf face? TIA

Abuse of a corpse, which is a misdemeanor. Any charges incurred from covering up a murder.

Not an attorney, but I play one on the weekends.

 

[PeriodicalCuriosity]

This is very interesting. I had thought awhile back when we first found out about the TWO graves that there might have been some kind of pact between AB and someone else. It was my thought that two people might have wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone, but one of them didn't show up or couldn't go through with it. obviously--my opinion...

 

[not_my_kids]

I have my own legal question.
I know that first degree murder requires proof of premeditation.
Do they have to prove that AB premeditated the murder of Elizabeth specifically, or just that she planned and schemed to kill someone?

 

[mixologist74]

Wow....I sure am seeing a LOT of speculation

amazing that they have a confession, but I guess some are sympathetic to Allyssa cause she is 1) under 16 *will be 16 in Jan
and 2) she is a girl

I could speculate that a purple people eater came along...or that the moon was in jupiter or whatever, but the facts seem pretty clear that Allysa killed little Elizabeth and it seems to be a case of clear premeditation

some of the listed "cases" on the article about teens who kill had some sort of (twisted) motivation..ie, jealousy, rivalry for a boyfriend

but this case seems to be just a "thrill" kill to "see what it feels like"

I think Allyssa is most like the "collie" murder in Australia
did she act alone ? So far it seems that way

maybe the boy is just "sticking up for her" like some other young "fans" are doing on the web

I will wait and see...till I see different I agree that Allyssa is right where she needs to be, and trying her as an adult is the ONLY thing that makes sense since I feel it would be very dangerous for her to be out in 5 years, scot free and with a sealed juvenile record

I sure would not want to be around her, who would>?

My personal guess is that IF Allyssa was a boy the sympathy would be much less ...JMO of course

I don't have any sympathy for this girl at all. What I'm saying is what if she "confessed" to the murder to cover for the boy, so she didn't lose him? She could have said all this about "wanting to know what it felt like to kill" just to throw LE off HIS trail. The written evidence could have been pre-planned as well. Anyone can write in a diary or whatever the case may be, and it not necessarily be the truth. I believe read on this board that AB missed school the next day, but was found on school grounds WITH HER BF. Do you suppose they could have been corroborating their stories somehow? I'm just trying to look at this from all angles. As far as I know, none of the autopsy or related reports have been released yet, so as far as anything linking the bf to the crime, it may not have all been processed.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is very interesting. I had thought awhile back when we first found out about the TWO graves that there might have been some kind of pact between AB and someone else. It was my thought that two people might have wanted to see what it felt like to kill someone, but one of them didn't show up or couldn't go through with it. obviously--my opinion...

I think she acted alone. I also think she had plans for that second grave...just didn't have the opportunity to use it.

 

[Jodibug]

The rumor that the bf (D) helped Alyssa has been around since the day that Alyssa was arrested.

I really don't think he would have been able to outsmart the FBI whenever he was interviewed, so I believe it is just a rumor.

 

[not_my_kids]

I think that someone else may have known what she was planning, and in more detail than the statements she made to her friend about wanting to know what it felt like to kill someone. I think she may have included someone else in her planning stages, but that person may be afraid to come forward.

But, in all honesty, it doesn't matter much. AB, IMO, is THE murderer.

 

[Csquare]

Why for his "protection"? Because he knows AB?

Very simple. He was/is a her BF. People may take out there madness on him and he already made threats that if anyone said anything bad he would fight.

 

[mixologist74]

Very simple. He was/is a her BF. People may take out there madness on him and he already made threats that if anyone said anything bad he would fight.

Then it would make sense to take him out of school for OTHER people's protection, and not necessarily his own, since he made threats, although I do understand where you're coming from.

 

[not_my_kids]

Do we have proof of these threats?
Just curious, as I'm trying to catch up on media.