MO - Elizabeth Olten, 9, St Martin's, 21 Oct 2009 #8

[Dal Gal]

One of AB's tweets reads: "encompass’d with a thousand dangers; weary, faint, trembling with a thousand terrors; i in a fleshly tomb, am buried above ground."

I've learned that these words were written by poet William Cowper following one of his many suicide attempts. It is cited in numerous references to describe depression so vast that suicide is the solution.

Following that information, I found a website that is filled with quotes of suicidal thoughts at http://thecatandmouse.net/suicidequotes.html and discovered this terrifying nugget: "No one kills himself who did not want to kill another or, at least, wish death to another." ~Wilhelm Stekel

I hope nobody ever dissects my computer and sees some of the sites that I've visited as a result of this case...they'll be calling the paddy wagon on me LOL

 

[Flashforward]

I completely forgot to ask my sister this weekend if she had last years yearbook from JCHS--- man that makes me mad, I am so annoyed with myself now.

 

[Flashforward]

Has there been confirmation as to whether EO had her own cell phone of if it was really her mother's cell phone?

 

[human]

I was told originally that LE went to the GP's house and the GF told LE that EO had not even been there. The 6yo told him that she had. The GP's refused to let LE search their house.
My step daughter was at Patty's Thurs night when she got a text to check out someone's house. She turned the info over to LE and from what I understand plans were put together to do a search on FRI.
I am posting what I am been told by someone I consider a reliable person. As for Sherriff White I have met the man a few times and I am confident he did everything he and his staff could do. He is a very honest and fair man. Sometimes when giving a Press Con you have to be carefull what you say in case the POI might be listening. Just like playing poker, you can't show your hand to early.

In that case, maybe the GP's suspected or knew something was up.

I know it would be heartbreaking to think one's grand daughter (AB) might have done something, but at this point I don't think the GP's could guess what she had done.

To not give any info for the search of Elizabeth is downright cruel!

If that is the truth of what happened, I don't feel as sorry as I did for them anymore.

 

[crimecurious]

Where did you find it? A news article? Does it mention a name?

Casenet arrests on that night.

 

[crimecurious]

Has there been confirmation as to whether EO had her own cell phone of if it was really her mother's cell phone?

I don't think it's confirmed. iirc Someone posted earlier that they had a relative at EO's home at some point and EO's Mom received a text message from someone. So that would make me think EO had her own phone...

 

[Jules71]

I don't think it's confirmed. iirc Someone posted earlier that they had a relative at EO's home at some point and EO's Mom received a text message from someone. So that would make me think EO had her own phone...

and I believe that same person here on WS said E had her own phone.

 

[vjlaw]

I am just wondering if AB had access to the daycare house? Or maybe the young married couple were actually staying in that house and a warrant served could have been to the daycare house. It's my understanding the daycare was no longer in operation.

 

[Bibliophile]

Wow, this was hard to find, but I believe I found the info on this matter. Down the same road as EO's house and the same night she was found, a young man was arrested for a dwi warrant. He was probably stopped due to traffic checks in that area that night and got nabbed.

So - if the warrant was indeed unrelated, it is most likely the grandparent's allowed LE to search the house voluntarily.

And it also follows that it was during that search, evidence was found to formally interview AB.

 

[Csquare]

I don't think it's confirmed. iirc Someone posted earlier that they had a relative at EO's home at some point and EO's Mom received a text message from someone. So that would make me think EO had her own phone...

That was me. My step-daughter was over there and she is the one that told me that each had a phone.

 

[akashana]

One of AB's tweets reads: "encompass’d with a thousand dangers; weary, faint, trembling with a thousand terrors; i in a fleshly tomb, am buried above ground."

I've learned that these words were written by poet William Cowper following one of his many suicide attempts. It is cited in numerous references to describe depression so vast that suicide is the solution.

Following that information, I found a website that is filled with quotes of suicidal thoughts at http://thecatandmouse.net/suicidequotes.html and discovered this terrifying nugget: "No one kills himself who did not want to kill another or, at least, wish death to another." ~Wilhelm Stekel

I hope nobody ever dissects my computer and sees some of the sites that I've visited as a result of this case...they'll be calling the paddy wagon on me LOL

I went to the website and had to LOL at this one:

Suicide is man's way of telling God, "You can't fire me—I quit."

Bill Maher

 

[MommyInHighHeels]

ALSO, from the Xanga (2005) til this journal, he talks about KNP and how much he likes her. And about how mad he got when guys weren't nice to her about her weight. They only started dating in 2008. Those parts of the journal were so super cute.

Honestly. RP if you are reading this, reading your journals I was rooting for you- and I was so happy when I realized you DID marry the woman you have been in love with for a long time. And I was very impressed and happy that you seem to have overcome your past woes. I can't 100% say that myself. But I wanted to congratulate you and let you know... if you didn't inject yourself in this in the way you did, no one would have bothered "researching" as much as we did. But I do understand the impulse.

I also had the opportunity to read his Xanga blog prior to it's deletion. Although I got the feeling he was extremely lonely, what caught my attention most was the comment he made with regards to finding pleasure in stirring up conflict. I also noticed the "self-assesment" test results he posted, it was a list of several characteristics which attributed percentages to how that particular characteristic described your persona. Conflict and paranoia were in the 90th percentile, among others, but those two spoke volumes to me.

 

[akashana]

I also had the opportunity to read his Xanga blog prior to it's deletion. Although I got the feeling he was extremely lonely, what caught my attention most was the comment he made with regards to finding pleasure in stirring up conflict. I also noticed the "self-assesment" test results he posted, it was a list of several characteristics which attributed percentages to how that particular characteristic described your persona. Conflict and paranoia were in the 90th percentile, among others, but those two spoke volumes to me.

MY BOLD

Can you say Drama Queen?

 

[CHICANA]

In that case, maybe the GP's suspected or knew something was up.

I know it would be heartbreaking to think one's grand daughter (AB) might have done something, but at this point I don't think the GP's could guess what she had done.

To not give any info for the search of Elizabeth is downright cruel!

If that is the truth of what happened, I don't feel as sorry as I did for them anymore.

I love my kids too much to lie for them. I can't imagine covering for one of my kids if they did something like this, what if she'd killed someone else ?
Hopefully it's not true.

 

[crimecurious]

So - if the warrant was indeed unrelated, it is most likely the grandparent's allowed LE to search the house voluntarily.

And it also follows that it was during that search, evidence was found to formally interview AB.

Well the info doesn't necessarily mean that. There could have been a search warrant for AB's house.

 

[crimecurious]

i love my kids too much to lie for them. I can't imagine covering for one of my kids if they did something like this, what if she'd killed someone else ?
Hopefully it's not true.

totally agree!

 

[Bibliophile]

Well the info doesn't necessarily mean that. There could have been a search warrant for AB's house.

It would be public record.

The warrant is for a thing (house) not a person, so it would not be subject to laws protecting juveniles. The warrant return might, if it listed items found that belonged to a juvenile.

If there is no warrant on public record, the search was voluntary.

 

[lajr56]

Well the info doesn't necessarily mean that. There could have been a search warrant for AB's house.

Does that fact that LE may have gotten a search warrant for the GP's house necessarily mean that they did not consent? I have read some things on-line that even when there is consent given, that consent can be challenged on court. Could it be that LE got a search warrant even though they may have been given consent? Because we are dealing with juveniles , perhaps they wanted to dot the I's and cross the T's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure

For instance, the owner of the property in question may consent to the search. The consent must be voluntary, but there is no clear test to determine whether or not it is; rather, a court will consider the "totality of the circumstances" in assessing whether consent was voluntary. Police officers are not required to advise a suspect that he may refuse. There are also some circumstances in which a third party who has equal control, i.e. common authority, over the property may consent to a search.

 

[MommyInHighHeels]

danni, I didn't think bad of Aunt K at all...I was too busy noticing what she said about AB acting as if she owned the place and helping herself to K's belongings. Sense of entitlement and lack of empathy for the feelings of others is one of the hallmarks of the sociopath.

After reading KNP's blog last week, I felt terribly sad for her. I cannot imagine the drastic change in family dynamics once not only one, but four nieces and nephews entered the family home full-time. I, too, was especially drawn to the last paragraph detailing an encounter she had with AB and her mother one day regarding an invasion of personal property by AB on KNP . KNP, in addressing the issue expected her mother to side with her, since AB was so blatantly in the wrong. AB ignored KNP's protests, and instead of explaining to AB that what she did was unacceptable, KNP's mother avoided conflict with AB and instead made comments to KNP which played on her insecurities. IMO, this is very telling.

 

[crimecurious]

Does that fact that LE may have gotten a search warrant for the GP' house necessarily mean that they did not consent? I have read some things on line that even when there is consent given, that consent can be challenged on court. Could it be that LE got a search warrant even though may have been given consent? Because we are dealing with juveniles , perhaps they wanted to dot the I's and cross the T's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_and_seizure

For instance, the owner of the property in question may consent to the search. The consent must be voluntary, but there is no clear test to determine whether or not it is; rather, a court will consider the "totality of the circumstances" in assessing whether consent was voluntary. Police officers are not required to advise a suspect that he may refuse. There are also some circumstances in which a third party who has equal control, i.e. common authority, over the property may consent to a search.

I think this is prob the case.