MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #2

[al66pine]

snipped from post by @sunshineray in last thread:
".... Cops have already warned the public about fentanyl over and over. I think they're waiting on the toxicology before they say anything. AJMO"

Yes, plenty of public warnings about fentanyl clandestinely added to street drugs ppl deliberately buy & take.
For years and years. Over and over.
Some ppl think it can't happen to them.

Not saying drugs were involved in these tragic deaths.

full post by sunshineray

MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024

Respectfully, I don't see that from the article. The relative says only that he was "sitting there." No chair is mentioned. In that region of the country, "sitting there" often just means that the person was there, not necessarily literally sitting. If you look at the video you'll see quite a...

www.websleuths.com

 

[monkey222]

I don't know how a parent would be able to say their grown son in his 30s would never go outside without a coat. Do I spend time in the winter outside without a coat? Guess that depends on what you mean, do I go for a walk without a coat? No. Do I run barefoot in the snow with no coat and a tanktop to the garbage and to the garage? Absolutely.

As far as one of the deceased's coat being left behind, how many men would notice that? Unless my husband is the exception, he didn't notice when i painted our bedroom, removed the rug, replaced the baseboard and rotated the bed all in one weekend while he was out of town. So noticing a coat left behind? Maybe if someone left a kid behind. The other point about the coat, is he may have just thought it was his, if JW has a coat the same color he probably never even looked closely at it. Several friends of mine have similar coats, we all have to look at the label to differentiate between them. Not that uncommon.

Where I live, it has been in the single digits for a week, and teens for a week. I wore a coat exactly TWO times. that was to shovel 8 in snow for an hourish. I work in another county, drive 7 days a week. Not ONCE have I wore a coat. I am also barelegged, wear shorts this entire cold spurt.
So, plenty of folks to not wear coats by choice!

 

[iluvmua]

What if the renter was blitzed out of his mind drunk/ drug bender and that's why he ignored everyone's calls/ texts?

Sadly, this will probably be OD by drugs or alcohol.

Jmo

 

[iluvmua]

Where I live, it has been in the single digits for a week, and teens for a week. I wore a coat exactly TWO times. that was to shovel 8 in snow for an hourish. I work in another county, drive 7 days a week. Not ONCE have I wore a coat. I am also barelegged, wear shorts this entire cold spurt.
So, plenty of folks to not wear coats by choice!

I almost always go outside in the cold barefoot and with out a coat

 

[SMK777]

Sadly, this will probably be OD by drugs or alcohol.

I think so, yes. It covers the known facts better than alternative theories.

 

[sunshineray]

snipped from post by @sunshineray in last thread:
".... Cops have already warned the public about fentanyl over and over. I think they're waiting on the toxicology before they say anything. AJMO"

Yes, plenty of public warnings about fentanyl clandestinely added to street drugs ppl deliberately buy & take.
For years and years. Over and over.
Some ppl think it can't happen to them.

Not saying drugs were involved in these tragic deaths.

full post by sunshineray

MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024

Respectfully, I don't see that from the article. The relative says only that he was "sitting there." No chair is mentioned. In that region of the country, "sitting there" often just means that the person was there, not necessarily literally sitting. If you look at the video you'll see quite a...

www.websleuths.com

I personally am leaning towards smoking a joint that they didn't know was bumped up with a sprayed compound containing fentanyl, enhanced marijuana. It could have injured them enough to pass out and died from exposure. JMO

 

[al66pine]

What Does Father Know about Son's Coat? How Identified?

I don't know how a parent would be able to say their grown son in his 30s would never go outside without a coat....
Several friends of mine have similar coats, we all have to look at the label to differentiate between them. Not that uncommon....

snipped for focus @iamnotagolem Agreeing.

"Never go outside without a coat" Hmmm.
Unless Father & 35 +y/o son live in same house or next door to ea. other, seems like a rather extreeeme stmt imo but could be accurate. Nothing wrong w coat on- all the time in cold. Is there med condition that might prompt this?

Whose Father? And I missed exact stmt by Father.
Did he say LED disclosed to him, son's body was found w no coat? Okay, possible.
If LE found ID/wallet in pocket, did LE provide coat to him?Seems unlikely imo, even w LE saying sudden death investigation, not crim homicide investigation (implied, yet).
If this deceased man was married, seems when coat is/was released, it would be provided to spouse.
imo. IDK

 

[louvillian08]

The most recent Fox4 news update has the 5th Person saying that he personally tried contact with JW through both FB and by phone, yes. On the 8th.

Details change again, 5th friend speaks out after 3 men found dead at KC home

Two weeks after three friends were found dead outside a KC home, an attorney is changing his story and a fifth friend involved is speaking out.

fox4kc.com

That article also says: "But Talge disputes part of that, saying sometime Tuesday, his client received a text message from Clayton McGeeney’s fiancée and from Ricky Johnson’s mother, asking about their loved ones."

Speculation but... In one of the articles posted on the last thread, the 5th person has been described as an acquaintance of the victims while JW had been friends with the victims for 20 years. If the acquaintance states he received texts from the fiancée and mother of two different victims, I find it hard to believe those people wouldn't also have the cell phone number for JW himself. Someone who had been a friend to their son, fiancé, etc. for decades.

Is it possible? Sure. But remember JW's first story with his attorney was that he only received Facebook messages from ONE person. Now he seems to be reframing that as multiple messages and we have someone else saying they sent him a text.

 

[UnderWhelmed405]

Ok. Accidental OD. But not all three simultaneously while outside.
<modsnip: not victim friendly>

 

[Peppery]

I’m trying to mentally juggle what scenarios could plausibly kill three adult males simultaneously.

What we can rule out:

1) LE says no apparent foul play, so we know they weren’t shot or stabbed to death. Likely not strangled either or their necks would show it.
2) They weren’t attacked by a dog or other animal because again, their bodies would show the wounds.
3) I can’t imagine they were suffocated to death because the second two would intervene for the first victim or at least run away, so I’d guess they were all unconscious or too weak if this would have occurred.
4) They did not simultaneously die of cancer or other disease. We don’t know this for a fact but the odds against this are just about insurmountable. Same for having three heart attacks all at once.
5) They did not commit mutual suicide because again the means of death would be clear.
6) They were clearly not in an accident with a vehicle.
7) They clearly did not all fall, let’s say off a roof or ladder, because the evidence again would show this.
8) not electrocuted by stepping on a live wire or by lightning because the burn marks would show.
9) they are three individuals so if any were allergic to something, it is just about impossible for them to all suffer anaphylaxis
10) multiple other things which at present are not crossing my mind.

What does that leave?
1) drug overdose
2) alcohol poisoning
3) carbon monoxide or other invisible poisoning
4) intentionally or unintentionally poisoned by ingesting deadly mushrooms or the like
5) freezing to death

I know I’m forgetting a host of other possibilities.


ETA: I was looking up if they could have suffocated in the snow if they were drunk, but for that they’d have to all be face down or covered as in an avalanche, but one was on the porch. Also, IIRC, we have learned that it hadn’t snowed at the time they first went outside.

I don't know that I'm ready make all those assumptions based on LE saying no obvious sign of foul play at the scene. Even if they're probably not likely, some of them are still possible based on the tiny amount of info released. I think that statement was made after just looking at them, as they were positioned before moving them. So things like strangulation, suffocation, electrocution, might not be obvious when looking at a frozen body covered in 6-8" (I think?) of snow in the dark.

I do think we can rule out things like being shot or attacked by a wild animal or stabbed, because signs of those things would be obvious. And that's IF LE is being truthful which I think they are in this case.

My guess is that they all ingested a substance(s) (most likely voluntarily) which rendered them unconscious or unable to rationally think/act and they froze to death. IMO, they willingly did a drug that was laced with something they weren't expecting, along with alcohol. The host either did not partake, consumed a much smaller amount or had the benefit of being indoors.

 

[SMK777]

Ok. Accidental OD. But not all three simultaneously while outside.

^^^ That’s exactly what I thought when initially reading about this case.

But after reading about accidental ingestion of fentanyl laced into coke or weed, I discovered that’s exactly how it happens: For example 5-6 people in a condo, or in a car—all suddenly and simultaneously dead at once.

 

[SMK777]

My guess is that they all ingested a substance(s) (most likely voluntarily) which rendered them unconscious or unable to rationally think/act and they froze to death. IMO, they willingly did a drug that was laced with something they weren't expecting, along with alcohol. The host either did not partake, consumed a much smaller amount or had the benefit of being indoors.

Agree with all of the above EXCEPT that if it was fentanyl poisoning, they may have died PRIOR to hypothermia even setting in.

 

[Peppery]

Ok. Accidental OD. But not all three simultaneously while outside.

RSBM
We don't know that they died simultaneously. In fact I think because one was on the porch while the other two in the yard, it makes sense that they did NOT all die at the same time. Possibly a few hours apart is my guess.

 

[Peppery]

Agree with all of the above EXCEPT that if it was fentanyl poisoning, they may have died PRIOR to hypothermia even setting in.

True, but I think them being in different locations in the yard shows maybe that happened to the man on the porch and the other two "went to get help" before they succumbed to the substance or weather. I think we're pretty much thinking the same thing.

 

[10ofRods]

^^^ That’s exactly what I thought when initially reading about this case.

But after reading about accidental ingestion of fentanyl laced into coke or weed, I discovered that’s exactly how it happens: For example 5-6 people in a condo, or in a car—all suddenly and simultaneously dead at once.

True. There is a big uptick in such cases out here in California. We don't always have all the information, but we can tell from reporting that there are more groups found dead all at once.

Four men found dead at a Palmdale home. Authorities suspect drug use

Some nearby residents said the home where the bodies were found, in the 37000 block of 17th Street East in northern Los Angeles County, was a regular spot for parties.

www.latimes.com

Of course, L.A. County has an overdose task force.

The family is wondering the same thing:

Brother Suspects 3 Friends Found Dead in Yard After Chiefs Game Had Something ‘In Their System'

A man whose brother was one of three men found dead in a friend’s backyard after a Kansas City Chiefs game says he believes that “something had to have been in their system” that wasn't alcohol.

people.com

Missouri's data on overdose deaths is only partly reported but here are our national stats and a map:

Products - Vital Statistics Rapid Release - Provisional Drug Overdose Data

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

Yet, since LE says "not criminal" I do wonder (wouldn't there have to be some mechanism of administering the fentanyl? If it was laced marijuana, surely they'd have tested that and got a warning out immediately?) Or if it were cut with another drug, wouldn't the baggie for that drug be at the scene?

Could alcohol plus ketamine do this? (I really don't know).

Answered my own question: yes, it could. Unprescribed ketamine use is on the rise.

 

[MassGuy]

^^^ That’s exactly what I thought when initially reading about this case.

But after reading about accidental ingestion of fentanyl laced into coke or weed, I discovered that’s exactly how it happens: For example 5-6 people in a condo, or in a car—all suddenly and simultaneously dead at once.

Yup. A quick google search turned up 4 people dead in a house and another case with 2 dead in a house. Both overdoses. I expect something similar here, with a (probable) touch of "CYA."

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Was attempting to post this in last thread as it closed.

Can we confirm these people actually texted or called his CELL PHONE number and not a text or call through facebook messenger? Did they actually have his cell phone number to text?

I'm thinking that they texted/called him through the facebook messenger app as I doubt they had his phone number to text his cell phone directly. After all, he wan't their friend - he was their family member's friend. If their family member had him on facebook they would be able to text him through the facebook app by finding him in their friends list.

Thing is, that with the facebook messenger app, individual messenger stettings vary depending upon set up. When I get messages from people on my friends list I get a notification in my facebook itself stating that "you have a new message from *advertiser censored*". If I get a message from someone not on my friends list, it goes to a 'spam' folder and I get no notification of it within my facebook page itself. To see them I actually have to open my facebook messages and do a deep dive to even see them. Thing is, if I click on 'mark all as read' it does so to them all even if I have not read them all - quite like "mark all forums as read" here on this site can be done even if one has not actually read them all.

I've posted a couple screen shots up to show the process to get to 'spam' messages or messages from "non personal friends" on facebook. It's not as simple as receiving a "you have a new message from" notifcation as I do NOT receive those for non-friends or "merely-possible acquaintances".

MSM has stated nearly every manner of attempted contact, short of carrier pigeon. (Text to cell phone, phone calls to cell, texts to SM, and even the 5th guest attempted to contact JW to find out the whereabouts of the other 3.)

 

[Persephone111]

Was attempting to post this in last thread as it closed.

Can we confirm these people actually texted or called his CELL PHONE number and not a text or call through facebook messenger? Did they actually have his cell phone number to text?

I'm thinking that they texted/called him through the facebook messenger app as I doubt they had his phone number to text his cell phone directly. After all, he wan't their friend - he was their family member's friend. If their family member had him on facebook they would be able to text him through the facebook app by finding him in their friends list.

Thing is, that with the facebook messenger app, individual messenger stettings vary depending upon set up. When I get messages from people on my friends list I get a notification in my facebook itself stating that "you have a new message from *advertiser censored*". If I get a message from someone not on my friends list, it goes to a 'spam' folder and I get no notification of it within my facebook page itself. To see them I actually have to open my facebook messages and do a deep dive to even see them. Thing is, if I click on 'mark all as read' it does so to them all even if I have not read them all - quite like "mark all forums as read" here on this site can be done even if one has not actually read them all.

I've posted a couple screen shots up to show the process to get to 'spam' messages or messages from "non personal friends" on facebook. It's not as simple as receiving a "you have a new message from" notifcation as I do NOT receive those for non-friends or "merely-possible acquaintances".

I don’t think we know? I believe in a news article it was stated by one the 5th member that he tried to “call” him. Th article was in the previous thread with some details about the 5th member.

 

[Persephone111]

M

@sunshineray
Thank you for posting that new article that shows chairs in the back yard. Very helpful. We still have no confirmation about their use, but after seeing the configuration, I find it hard to believe that a body would have been found on the porch (which has two large chairs on it and almost no room to stand) if not in a chair.

I doubt we're going to learn much about where the bodies actually were unless the information is given to family members, who are definitely going to continue to speak out, I believe. Unless this is reclassified as a criminal investigation. I'm sure the relatives have the same questions. It's heartbreaking.

The timeline we have right now seems to say Fifth Person left at midnight and everyone was fine. JW (through attorney) seems to say he saw them at 2 am and thought they were leaving the house. It's clear that the gates in the fence work an the fence, IMO, is scaleable. That is not enough to solve this mystery.

I have a bunch of LE-related questions about common practices in Kansas City, MO (what kinds of available evidence would cause an investigation to be termed criminal? is the main one).

IMO.

My question is if JW went asleep on the couch, then to bed….how does he know the 3 men re entered the house if he was asleep?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I don't know how a parent would be able to say their grown son in his 30s would never go outside without a coat. Do I spend time in the winter outside without a coat? Guess that depends on what you mean, do I go for a walk without a coat? No. Do I run barefoot in the snow with no coat and a tanktop to the garbage and to the garage? Absolutely.

As far as one of the deceased's coat being left behind, how many men would notice that? Unless my husband is the exception, he didn't notice when i painted our bedroom, removed the rug, replaced the baseboard and rotated the bed all in one weekend while he was out of town. So noticing a coat left behind? Maybe if someone left a kid behind. The other point about the coat, is he may have just thought it was his, if JW has a coat the same color he probably never even looked closely at it. Several friends of mine have similar coats, we all have to look at the label to differentiate between them. Not that uncommon.

If he had the wherewithall to escort his all male guests, and some high school buddies, to the door, he strikes me as a guy who would notice a coat left behind. MOO Also, MOO, I don't think he walked anyone to the front door. Most old friends aren't that formal.