MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[DFWNF]

Well yes but also micro amounts would also get you addicted

I suppose, if you even knew fentanyl was in it, but if you die no repeat purchases. Coke can get you addicted easily as well. Jme.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

https://x.com/alcaprari23/status/1753923141766660513?s=46&t=s2RxeM4Fg01yesFUzL6bDw

"Just spoke to a source close to Jordan Willis, who is disputing the viral claims that he was a "Chemist" who manufactured designer drugs for his friends.

Source tells me he's devastated at the loss of his friends and would never make drugs for them. He's in rehab voluntarily after this "gigantic wake-up call." Says he's suffered from depression and alcoholism over the past 15+ years and would use drugs recreationally, but does not believe he is a narcotic addict.

"He never manufactured anything, that's not what he would do. That's so crazy to me that people would actually think, just because of his profession, that he is a mad scientist," source tells me. "The whole country is pointing fingers at him but he's had zero time to grieve... and now they are taking another life, essentially. He's never going to be able to get over this.""

Thank you for posting this.

I totally agree with JW's friend, and in fact I find it quite annoying that Alex Caprariello is the one posting it--because if I remember correctly, he was the person who published Clayton's cousin's accusations against JW to begin with.

If you start the fire you shouldn't get credit for attempting to extinguish it.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Were these men first time users, consistent weekly or monthly or daily users? IDK. In terms of risk, I doubt that it matters.

If it's left up to the families, imo they will try to minimize or deny that these guys used drugs, just like some of them already have on SM despite what the autopsies prove. I don't know how self-inflicted OD would affect payout from life insurance policies.
MOO.

 

[acutename]

But the DEA says that fake pills that look like adderall or xanax are the most common form of fentanyl sold in the US. Millions of them. I found more pictures - and the fake adderall that is scored for breaking in half does look almost exactly like real adderall.

What I'd love to know is whether some people buy it, thinking it's adderall (then die as they are not opiate addicted) or whether the dealers tell them up front that it's fentanyl. DEA says that there's a potentially lethal dose of fentanyl in 6 out of 10 of the fake pills they have recovered in drug busts.

A local LEO told me, as I said upthread, that sometimes the fake pills are ground up and used in the same place where the other drugs (like cocaine) are also weighed and packaged. It's just so hard to understand why drug dealers would willingly pay for fentanyl and then put some of it in cocaine. Other, cheaper things make cocaine go further. Maybe because it's there (the fake pills) and it's handy and they don't know any better?

I do wonder if the street level dealers know that the coke is laced. DEA says two cartels are mostly responsible for the fake pills (they don't mention where the laced cocaine is coming from in anything I've read so far).

If no one knows the fentanyl is in the coke (at the street level), I'm going to guess that it may be cross-contamination at a much higher level up. Drug dealers do sell pure fentanyl (at least in AZ) and in WA, the pills are popular - and only 50 cents each at their lowest price point. Surely people return to their dealer for the same high (knowing it's not xanax or adderall).

DEA quote below, with link. That page also mentions that fentanyl is processed into pills that look like oxycodone or other Rx opiates (that I can understand). It's also made into nose spray and sold in that matter for direct use of fentanyl.

Facts about Fentanyl

Forms of Fentanyl Citrate Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid typically used to treat patients with chronic severe pain or severe pain following surgery. Fentanyl is a Schedule II controlled substance that is similar to morphine but about 100 times more potent. Under the supervision of a licensed...

www.dea.gov

OK I have no knowledge about any of this but I remember reading that this is such a public health hazard, you can test your illegal drugs:

Fentanyl Test Strips: A Harm Reduction Strategy​

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (.gov)
https://www.cdc.gov › stopoverdose › fentanyl-test-str...



Sep 30, 2022 — FTS are small strips of paper that can detect the presence of fentanyl in all different kinds of drugs (cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin, etc.) ...
en

Of course that is, if you are still not drunk, high, irrational, functioning mainly with your reptilian hind brain, when you get your hands on such substances

 

[acutename]

If blinds were not drawn, it could have been possible through several windows depending where bodies were. Definitely through the sliding glass doors in the dining room. But who knows if he goes in those rooms on a daily basis. It's a pretty big house.

snow storm- were the people covered with some snow?

 

[acutename]

This has just reminded me of something I was taught in a summer class last year, it was a psychology course and we were taught about how the brain associates with certain environments when drug taking. For an example, if a drug user always takes his/her hits, in a bathroom, the brain associates the drug taking with being in the bathroom and as the tolerance grows so does this association but then for one reason or another, the drug taker takes drugs in a different environment, for example, the park, the brain doesn't recognise this environment associated with the drugs and acts completely differently, metabolising the drug in a completely different way and without the built up tolerance.
We were told that this situation accounts for many OD deaths in long term users.


Environment Contributes To Drug Tolerance - ScienceDaily

"If the same amount of a drug is administered in one context and later in another different and distinct context, then the effects of the drug are different," Cepeda-Benito says.

"The drug has a much greater effect in a novel context rather than in a context that is associated with the administered drug."

Cepeda-Benito, who has studied morphine and nicotine's effects, terms this phenomenon "learned tolerance," and says gradual desensitization to a drug can be developed not only by repeated use of the drug, but also through a learning process that involves recognizing the environment.

In other words, a person consuming a drug in a setting where he or she usually consumes the drug or even expects to consume it will be less likely to feel the full effects of the drug, he says.

However, if that same person takes the same amount of the drug in a setting where he or she doesn't normally take the drug, then the person is likely to feel a greater effect from the drug."

I wonder if something biochemical happens- similar to if you always eat at the same time, your stomach has a wash of acid ready to digest the food...

 

[MyBelle]

Snipped for focus:
True. I had a friend up in New York State who had a middle aged sister, brother in law, and many of their coworkers and friends who were all loyal patients of this doctor and his pain clinic.

He prescribed opioids and felt he was doing a kind service for many of these people who had chronic back pain, arthritis pain, neuropathy, etc. He viewed himself as a good doctor doing legitimate medical treatment.

One day there was police tape all around the place and he was raided and shut down for being a drug pusher. But was he? He was a certified licensed medical doctor who was overseeing all the prescriptions. I’ll bet many patients became alcoholics or turned to street dealers. It’s difficult to determine what is right and wrong here.

The bigger problem is that doctors can get kickbacks from Big Pharm for writing the prescriptions or they may be writing the Rx for patients who really don't need the Rx and that's unethical. I've always taken issue with television ads for medication requiring an Rx because these are very expensive medications and that is a big reason people turn to street drugs thinking they are getting the same thing. It disgusts me that Rx drugs are allowed to be advertised on tv. Kickbacks to doctors should be illegal.

I don't believe any of the dead men knew their cocaine had fentanyl mixed in. Their local dealer may not have known it. There was an anesthesiologist in Hawaii who ran a pain clinic. He now sits in prison and so does his sister, a former DA who "looked the other way."

JMO

Hawaii Pain Doctor Rudy Puana Sentenced To 7.5 Years For Drug Offenses

Calling it a gross abuse of trust, the judge also weighed evidence showing that Puana has gotten sober and is unlikely to reoffend.

www.civilbeat.org

Hawaii island physician Rudy Puana, who was convicted of running a prescription drug ring that his former prosecutor sister, Katherine Kealoha, tried to conceal, is headed to prison for 7 1/2 years, a federal judge ruled Monday.

The sentencing comes after a jury found Puana guilty in April of 38 counts for distributing oxycodone and fentanyl. A licensed pain doctor and anesthesiologist, Puana wrote prescriptions for thousands of oxycodone pills to friends who sold them or traded them for cocaine.

Billionaire founder of opioid firm guilty of bribing doctors to prescribe drug

John Kapoor, 75, also guilty of defrauding insurance companies, as prosecutors say fentanyl drug Subsys fuelled opioid epidemic

www.theguardian.com

The head of a leading drug manufacturer has been found guilty of bribing doctors to prescribe a dangerous painkiller to patients who did not need it, in the first criminal conviction of a pharma chief over the opioid epidemic.

A Boston jury also found John Kapoor, the 75-year-old billionaire founder of Insys Therapeutics, guilty of defrauding insurance companies in the push to sell Subsys, a spray made from fentanyl, a synthetic opioid many times stronger than morphine.

Subsys was approved for terminal cancer patients but the company targeted sales at a much bigger and more profitable market of people with non-life threatening chronic pain. Prosecutors said that fueled the opioid epidemic and cost lives.

 

[NovaBeans]

snow storm- were the people covered with some snow?

Looks like it started snowing Monday the 8th around noon until Tuesday morning. I'm not sure how many inches and if the bodies were fully covered by snow at any point though.

 

[10ofRods]

I believe the illegal drug business is constantly changing in any particular location because of law enforcement crackdowns, new players trying to bring in different kinds of product, gang rivalries at all levels, changing user preferences, etc.

So, just as an example, a newcomer to the business might find a source for cheaper, lower quality cocaine, and then, by mixing it with fenty they can produce twice as many batches, so offer it at a lower price. Meanwhile, because of a DEA raid, or cartel violence, the better quality cocaine is in short supply, and the cheaper stuff is snapped up. That dealer is careful, for a while, and makes so much money, he doesn't care if one batch goes wrong, he's working on the next batch....

There's nobody running quality control, there's no information sharing between producers, there's no one thinking ahead about the long term. It's all, get as much money as you can today, because who knows what'll happen tomorrow.

Why anyone would trust these people about stuff they put in their bodies is beyond me - but they do...

JMO

I'm finally getting it! Yes - so cocaine (or meth - as sometimes people are sold meth as cocaine and biochemically, they take nearly identical routes through the brain). People expect a reliable bump/high. If fentanyl is as cheap as I'm reading, it acts as a fluffer/restorative for cheaper coke to give the bigger oomph.

And of course no quality control. And yes, total secrecy! Obviously including the end users - and the street dealers ( who do not know exactly what they are selling!)

You brought in economic factors that really gave context.

 

[arielilane]

Regarding the X posting from AC posted about an hour ago. I hope this young man (JW) is getting the best care possible, and the help that he needs.

moo
https://twitter.com/alcaprari23

 

[branmuffin]

I can't believe I'm going to share this but I am. Hope it helps. About 15 years ago, I had a fractured back in 2 places. I was prescribed Percocet at first and over time required stronger and stronger meds to deal with the pain. I ended up on fentanyl patches. Now fentanyl patches are made from pharmaceutical grade fentanyl and the amount of the drug is consistent with its strength on the label, not this stuff we are talking about here. I figured out how to abuse them. I felt no pain and felt pretty productive. My tolerance grew over time. I could abuse to the point that I would lean over in my chair and nod off and have no recollection of it. I got to this point at about 5 years of opiates. Fentanyl is 100x stronger than morphine. I took it daily, never truly od'd and ran a business like that. Nobody knew. If someone that did not have a tolerance to opiates took it, well I can only imagine that they would be completely unaware of anything. I do remember that while I was feeling high from the fentanyl, I was warm. So much so that working outside in the middle of winter in the northeast, I was never chilly. I was maybe even sweaty. I have also done cocaine. It has the opposite effect as far as being awake and aware but you also get quite toasty. I really think these guys did their bumps or lines of coke and went outside either to smoke (possibly a joint) or to cool off. Opiate naive, they began to nod off or possibly begin to enter the beginning stages of an overdose. I would be interested to know if vomit was found near them or possibly in their mouth or esophagus. JW either could have had the same reaction to the drugs and happened to be inside or JW had been ingesting fentanyl thru his drug of choice for a long period of time that he was much more opiate tolerant. He may have not even taken into consideration how opiate naive his friends were or this batch was stronger than it had been. One grain of fentanyl in this batch could have been three times as potent as yesterdays. Anyone who has done coke knows that you can drink like a fish while you are doing it. In fact, lots of people will drink a ton in order to try to come down from the speedy heart racing feeling. Might be why JW had wine 2 days later. Coke binge!

Just wanted to add that I'm sober over 10 years now. Opiate addiction is awful.

Are you suggesting that JW was the procurer of the drugs?

 

[Rosydecember]

Remember fentanyl is 100x more potent than morphine. The average joe who gets morphine iv in the hospital feels pretty out of it and sometimes even pukes. If these poor guys didn't have tolerance to opioids, well you get the point. Fentanyl is quite often part of the cocktail the anesthesiologist gives a person to go under for surgery.

Some people have different reactions or sensitivities to drugs. The ER gave me Valium and morphine before giving me a chest tube for a lung collapse. It.didn’t.help. The ER doctor looked at the anesthesiologist because I was screaming in so much pain. He said he gave me the recommended dosage based on my height/weight and the doctor had to explain that not everyone reacts the same and not everything is cookie cutter. Regardless to say, worst experience of my life.

 

[MyBelle]

I have been a long time lurker on websleuths and joined recently so I could click on a photo to view it, but this is my first post.

This is such a sad case and while most people suspected what the cause would be, it’s still awful. I’m just posting to share an article as it has made it several times into mainstream media here in Australia and I thought this article was quite a good summary (I assume it is an ok source as it is one of our main news broadcasters).

The interesting take aways for me were:
- the house belonged to JW’s parents (mentioned previously above)
- JW reportedly was know to be a supplier/user of drugs well back into high school (the article refers to him as being known as “the chemist”)
- JW had an incredibly high academic publication output. I don’t know a lot about the effects of various drugs but are any of these drugs stimulant like and could they actually be used to enhance performance/enable you to work without sleep etc- I’m specifically wondering about cocaine? (obviously an extremely dangerous and dreadful idea but I wonder if it might explain why a seemingly high achieving academic continued with risky drug use).

Article here https://www.news.com.au/sport/sport...e/news-story/a8b6daaedefaa205aed438bfe38c31e9

<modsnip: Referenced info was removed due to sleuthing non POIs> The woman, Mahoney, broke into the home but she wasn't a wife, she was the fiancée. And there is no information to support the claim JW was known supplier/user of drugs back in high school. The link only mentions a misdemeanor DUI arrest in TN in 2011. That could be for alcohol rather than drugs. He got his PhD. from Vanderbilt Univ in TN.

But what does jump out at me from your link is this: "Early on the morning of January 9, both Mahoney and Johnson’s mom Norma Chester texted Weamer-Lee asking where the men were. Weamer-Lee then texted Willis both on his phone and via Facebook but he apparently never answered."

Weamer-Lee was the 5th guy who arrived later than the other men and left earlier. He also has hired a criminal defense attorney. So, how did those two women know #5 was even there? The public didn't know it until after he hired a criminal defense attorney.

I don't believe JW ingested the fentanyl-laced cocaine because if he had done so, he would be just as dead as the men found outside with 3x the lethal dosage.

JMO

 

[jjleroche]

Willingly Taking the Risk. Responsibility.
sbm
@SMK777 "willfully taking such a risk"
Yes, unless someone held a gun to their heads, by taking what they may have believed or assumed was plain old, every day, run of the mill cocaine, like in the past _#_ batches they got thru same source(s)/dealer(s), these three men willingly took two or more serious risks.
Risk Factor #1. Cocaine purity. Unexpectedly high? Enough to kill?
Risk Factor #2. Fillers or additives. Like Fentanyl? Enough to kill?

If this batch had, say, 2 or 5 times more “oomph” than previous batches, seems that alone could be fatal. It’s not known whether that occurred here.
Fentanyl in this batch was reported to be three times an amt known to be fatal.

Were these men first time users, consistent weekly or monthly or daily users? IDK. In terms of risk, I doubt that it matters, ICBWrong.

These ^ RISKS LOOM LARGE EVERY SINGLE TIME anyone ingests “street-sourced” drugs.
imo

It is utterly horrifying. TRULY THIS IS RUSSIAN ROULETTE. So many lives have been destroyed in this one event, and yet the number of lives lost directly when "street-sourced drugs" are knowingly ingested continues to skyrocket.

The "it won't happen to me" has to surely be a factor in this behaviour epidemic. For all the aware-raising marketing that currently exists, THE MESSAGE IS SIMPLY NOT GETTING THROUGH.

IMO it would be very useful to change the current marketing approach. Show the brutally of what happens if someone ingests a "bad batch" - how the body is affected. Show bereaved families, small children, teenagers, parents, grandparents, neighbours, workmates - the whole lot.
THIS IS A WAR - it's time for a "gloves-off" approach - no holds barred. Show the big players in drug-dealing hierarchies counting their dosh. (How dare they!!) Show potential users with someone holding a cocked gun to their head, and their realisation that there's at least one bullet in the chamber - even a Dirty-Harry-like figure asking them if they feel lucky - show images of the potential user's loved ones flying through that person's mind as they ponder their luckiness or otherwise on that day.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

If it's left up to the families, imo they will try to minimize or deny that these guys used drugs, just like some of them already have on SM despite what the autopsies prove. I don't know how self-inflicted OD would affect payout from life insurance policies.
MOO.

I doubt the ME will list manner of death as suicide. This epidemic of fentanyl deaths is because the user doesn't know fentanyl was in the drug.

JMO

 

[Tricia]

I AM BEGGING EVERYONE. STAY ON TOPIC!!!!

 

[Forest_Wood]

Now the children will receive social security benefits, perhaps and most likely the mothers will receive more than they were collecting in child support. And it will be on time and in full. One of the deceased was criminally charged and had to do supervisedprobation for non payment of child support.

Yes, the government (we, the taxpayer) now has the financial responsibility for the children who's father just wanted to have a little fun. No harm intended. I tend to think people in their 30s have sowed their oats by then, but this is an example of not always. MOO.

 

[iridized]

I was asked by a moderator to list a link showing any that had any fines, court costs, etc. Here is the first link.

https://www.courts.mo.gov/fv/c/PAYMENT%20PLAN.PDF?courtCode=26&di=4936762

This is in regards to this case which also included 10 days jail time: https://www.courts.mo.gov/cnet/case...R01461&inputVO.courtId=SMPDB0004_CT26#charges

 

[Tealgrove]

I can't believe I'm going to share this but I am. Hope it helps. About 15 years ago, I had a fractured back in 2 places. I was prescribed Percocet at first and over time required stronger and stronger meds to deal with the pain. I ended up on fentanyl patches. Now fentanyl patches are made from pharmaceutical grade fentanyl and the amount of the drug is consistent with its strength on the label, not this stuff we are talking about here. I figured out how to abuse them. I felt no pain and felt pretty productive. My tolerance grew over time. I could abuse to the point that I would lean over in my chair and nod off and have no recollection of it. I got to this point at about 5 years of opiates. Fentanyl is 100x stronger than morphine. I took it daily, never truly od'd and ran a business like that. Nobody knew. If someone that did not have a tolerance to opiates took it, well I can only imagine that they would be completely unaware of anything. I do remember that while I was feeling high from the fentanyl, I was warm. So much so that working outside in the middle of winter in the northeast, I was never chilly. I was maybe even sweaty. I have also done cocaine. It has the opposite effect as far as being awake and aware but you also get quite toasty. I really think these guys did their bumps or lines of coke and went outside either to smoke (possibly a joint) or to cool off. Opiate naive, they began to nod off or possibly begin to enter the beginning stages of an overdose. I would be interested to know if vomit was found near them or possibly in their mouth or esophagus. JW either could have had the same reaction to the drugs and happened to be inside or JW had been ingesting fentanyl thru his drug of choice for a long period of time that he was much more opiate tolerant. He may have not even taken into consideration how opiate naive his friends were or this batch was stronger than it had been. One grain of fentanyl in this batch could have been three times as potent as yesterdays. Anyone who has done coke knows that you can drink like a fish while you are doing it. In fact, lots of people will drink a ton in order to try to come down from the speedy heart racing feeling. Might be why JW had wine 2 days later. Coke binge!

Just wanted to add that I'm sober over 10 years now. Opiate addiction is awful.

Thank you so much for sharing your story.

So much makes sense now.

Thank you.

 

[Forest_Wood]

Thank you for posting this.

I totally agree with JW's friend, and in fact I find it quite annoying that Alex Caprariello is the one posting it--because if I remember correctly, he was the person who published Clayton's cousin's accusations against JW to begin with.

If you start the fire you shouldn't get credit for attempting to extinguish it.

Totally agree with you here. I was dismayed by the way that reporter was so judgemental during his broadcasts. I don't know that I've ever seen that behaviour from a reporter before. Seemed one-sided and not objective on his part. MOO.