MO - Furious Friends Demand Answers After 3 Men Found Dead at Kansas City Home Days After Watching Football Game, January 2024 #3

[neesaki]

Sorry but, you imagined dealers in the past didn't want to get their customers addicted? I think it's in the job description...

I really hope I’m not overstepping my limits,

 

[Charlot123]

My 27 year old Grandson is one week out of detox for fentynal addiction. I checked on him many times to see if he was still alive. Fingers crossed he realizes it's time to turn his life around.

I am sorry that it has touched your family, and wish patience and strength in recovery to your grandson!

Some people thought that Nar-Anon was a good source of information/support.

Nar-Anon Family Groups

A 12-Step Program for Families & Friends of Addicts

www.nar-anon.org

 

[Tricia]

Please, everyone, stay on topic.
While your personal experiences and knowledge of drugs are interesting topics these types of posts derail the discussion very quickly and cause a lot of unnecessary work for our moderators.
Drug use in this country is heartbreaking. Many of you have loved ones who are struggling and you may be struggling yourself with addiction. Please know we are sympathetic to what you are going through. However, this thread is not the place to discuss these topics. Please understand we are not trying to be harsh but we need to keep this thread on topic.
Remember JW has not been named as a suspect, or person of interest nor has anyone officially said JW has done anything wrong. While some of the victim's family members have been very harsh in their comments about JW nothing has been officially stated that he did anything illegal. Of course, this could change any minute.
Your words have power. Please think before you post.

 

[DFWNF]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Jmo they did not know they were injesting fentanyl, jmo it was laced coke, and I don't know why people believe they got it from JW, one of the 4 men could have brought it with them to his house. We do not know.

 

[NCWatcher]

<modsnip - quoted post/response were off topic>

The report about the amount of fentanyl in the men's bodies--3 times the lethal amount-- comes to us from LE to family and from family members to a news outlet. Without seeing a report, we don't know if that amount is accurate, but it will be interesting to know how much of anything else was in the men's systems. Was the coke (or pot, but more likely coke) very heavily adulterated or did they use huge amounts? Further, will it be possible to determine how long before death cocaine was in their system? (To determine if there was use of a different supply earlier in the evening.)

While I understand there are reasons dealers may add fentanyl to cocaine, I do not believe JW is the one who added fentanyl to the cocaine used that night or had anything to do with "mixing up" the drug. The point of use is just not where fentanyl is added. And as I've said before, I also don't believe JW began concocting custom drug mixes for friends in a lab in high school. But if he HAD been doing that for decades, surely there would have been no reason for him to "make a mistake" and "accidentally" add over 3 times too much fentanyl to the coke he "manufactured." (Next we'll hear he grew his own coca
plants.)
MOO

 

[December]

Fentanyl is an opioid, and gives the opposite effect of cocaine--

I know that much about drugs. But, like i said "some kind of effect".

You are a drug supplier, your dealers want x amount of whatever drug, but you don't have it. You just give them some sort of drug. Some of the people buying won't know any better. Some will and may change dealers, but you supply them as well so why would you care.

Eta... Back in the 90s a several people died a rave. They thought they were taking x. They were actually taking some kind of cold medicine. I have not ever taken x, but i have taken a similar type of cold medicine (which was even otc). It would be about the last thing you would want to take at a rave, but i assume whomever was supposed to supply x didn't have enough. But, being a criminal, they just sold them some kind of pill.

 

[EyesofTheSouth]

I agree. I can't imagine JW being able to maneuver those large men from inside to outside. They died where they each landed imo. I'm curious about the blood you mentioned. Where would the blood have come from?

Oh I’m talking about livor mortis, where blood pools inside the body upon death. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause confusion.

Whenever someone dies, the blood will concentrate in a certain area, depending on their body position, because it won’t be circulating anymore.

So if someone dies laying face-up on the ground, the blood would pool along the backside of the body. If someone hanged themselves, blood would pool in the arms and legs.

If David died sitting in the chair, I would expect all the blood to have pooled in the legs.

The way that would appear to a medical examiner is that area would be purplish, almost bruised looking.

If David died on the ground and was put in the chair, unless immediately after it happened, I would expect to see purple all along his back and arms and legs, etc because the blood would pool more evenly in a prone position.

If he was sitting in a chair, the blood would go to his legs and feet because gravity would pull the blood to that area.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So well put. And bottom line is that people who are in pain or depressed will go back to what worked for them, prior. Alcohol is the drug of first choice for many (and I assume was involved in this case). Genetics are involved, as well.

Fentanyl and street drugs are indeed the Russian roulette of our time - but...what is the human psychology of that process??? I have theories. I use available data/stats in my theories. Men are more likely to use and die from fentanyl. Men in a certain age group, moreso (social connections? what else?)

If anyone knows of well-researched books (including autobographies) on this topic, I'd be much obliged. The academic/scientific literature can only go so far.

IMO

@10ofRods I always go to NIH for the most reliable information.

Causes, Nature and Toxicology of Fentanyl-Associated Deaths: A Systematic Review of Deaths Reported in Peer-Reviewed Literature​

Causes, Nature and Toxicology of Fentanyl-Associated Deaths: A Systematic Review of Deaths Reported in Peer-Reviewed Literature

 

[GeorgiaRai]

A football question: Was the January 13th Chiefs game already scheduled, or was it based on the outcome of the January 7th game? I was wondering about the timing of the ticket shopping/buying if these were playoff games.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

April Mahoney was so desperate to find her missing fiancé Clayton McGeeney that she first pounded the door of the house he was last known to have been at, then broke in through a tiny basement window. The scene she found was horrifying

“A bunch of people reached out to Clayton’s sister and told her that Willis had been known as ‘The Chemist’ in high school,” Jim McGeeney told The Post.

“They said he would go to parties and make people feel good with the drugs he enhanced. I don’t know if he concocted something or not that night. The police won’t tell us anything.”

April, he said, is “all tore up. She barely wants to talk. The funeral for Clayton was very tough. They were together for years and had a great life.”

Michael Baden, the former chief medical examiner for New York City, who has investigated numerous high-profile deaths, told The Post that it would be unlikely for three people taking drugs to die at the same time “but it wouldn’t be unusual for three people to pass out at the same time.”

“They usually pass out and sleep it off but if you pass out in the snow and cold the body temperature falls so quickly that often people are dead within an hour,” Baden said.

Did suburban Walter White poison his friends? Unraveling mystery of Kansas City Chiefs fans’ frozen fentanyl deaths

Did a brilliant HIV scientist really sleep for 48 hours as his friends overdosed and froze to death?

nypost.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Any fentanyl in the systems of these men is pretty suspicious and suggests something bad happened to them,” says Ben Trachtenberg, an associate dean and professor at the University of Missouri School of Law. He adds that if the case turns out to have a criminal component, “The question is: Who do you want to charge?”

Are Criminal Charges Likely After Drugs Found in Bodies of 3 Deceased Kansas City Chiefs Fans?

Toxicology results reportedly note cocaine and fentanyl in the men’s systems.

people.com

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Laboratory testing indicates 7 out of every 10 pills seized by DEA contain a lethal dose of fentanyl.

https://www.dea.gov/onepill

https://www.dea.gov/engage/operation-engage-kansascity

 

[NovaBeans]

I'm trying to piece together April's break in. I'm assuming she broke in this window from the basement. I've looked at photos of the house and couldn't locate this window. I'm assuming it's located behind the halfwall on the left hand side of the house.

I'm also assuming the door to the right of the stairs leads to the basement since there is a coat closet right next to that door.

So she would have had to go up the stairs, through the hallway and go either through the kitchen to the dining area OR through the front living room and into the dining room where she would have had a full view of the patio.

That's a lot of house she covered in that break in for JW to not hear, yet be awake enough to hear police shortly thereafter.

I'm not sure what I'm trying to get at expect trying make sense of Aprils actions which seem to be glossed over.

Here is a link to photos of the house:


https://www.apartments.com/5208-nw-83rd-ter-kansas-city-mo/h1qf8m2/

5208 NW 83rd Ter, Kansas City, MO 64151 - MLS #2302138 | BEX Realty

 

[Forest_Wood]

JW going into rehab is akin to going into hiding in this instance and situation. He is avoiding everything, especially any culpability or scrutiny thereof. Absolutely a classic case of “save my own *advertiser censored* at any expense or ruse.”

I don't know how he's avoiding everything by going to rehab. By entering a treatment program, he would gain clarity and face reality for maybe the first time in a long time if he's been using substances for awhile. We (society) want people to get well so they don't continue in these negative patterns of living. He made a wise decision imo, likely suggested by his employee assistance program, and his lawyer. Ideally, he'll come out a healthier person for beginning to change his life, and we want more healthy people in our society to reduce more deaths from happening. I don't see it as him saving his own ***, he's actually helping all of us by doing this. It's a positive and wise thing to do. MOO.

 

[ssnva1]

Even the ones that don't. Just carry it in your car because in downtown, people can OD on the street. I believe all workplaces should have it, too. What I am going to type now might sound strange but - let us not assume that our kids will always say "no" if we give them "honest talks" about drugs. Better buy them narcan before sending off to college, and say, "always take it with you if you plan to attend drug parties".

It is like with birth control pills - if you are putting your teenage daughter on them, you are not condoning her to have sex, you are preventing the pregnancy.

We have boxes everywhere at the addiction and recovery centers I manage. I think everyone should have some. You just never know. I give it away to anyone who take it. We hold free classes on how to use it. It’s not hard and anyone can administer it. It truly saves lives.

 

[ElizB]

Moo...we would remove some tobacco from the end of a cigarette, pour in a bit of coke, tap cigarette so the coke travels down into tobacco just a bit, twist paper end, lite. As a waitress in a tourist town the tips were often drugs. It was very educational. ...moo

BBM, I didn’t know that was an option!

 

[Forest_Wood]

Oh I’m talking about livor mortis, where blood pools inside the body upon death. Sorry, I didn’t mean to cause confusion.

Whenever someone dies, the blood will concentrate in a certain area, depending on their body position, because it won’t be circulating anymore.

So if someone dies laying face-up on the ground, the blood would pool along the backside of the body. If someone hanged themselves, blood would pool in the arms and legs.

If David died sitting in the chair, I would expect all the blood to have pooled in the legs.

The way that would appear to a medical examiner is that area would be purplish, almost bruised looking.

If David died on the ground and was put in the chair, unless immediately after it happened, I would expect to see purple all along his back and arms and legs, etc because the blood would pool more evenly in a prone position.

If he was sitting in a chair, the blood would go to his legs and feet because gravity would pull the blood to that area.

Very good information. This is one way they can tell if a person was moved. Thank you for the informative post!

 

[Leilei]

DBM

 

[10ofRods]

The end dealers may cut with the corn starch type stuff, but they're most likely getting the coke with the fentanyl already laced in by the cartels. This is all MOO and thoughts.

Now that most US States have legalized marijuana and buyers can just buy it easy peasy in a dispensary in most states, the cartels are concentrating more heavily on other drugs. They want to ensure their market by supplying more addictive substances.

These three men were educated and must've known the dangers, but they still went ahead and partook it appears. Recreational drugs are popular, but the trouble is the times have really changed. MOO, it's possible Americans are driving their own fentanyl crisis by wanting that cheap, powerful impactful high, and eventually it gets addicting. That is what the cartels are betting on. ​

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2024-01-31/us-says-fentanyl-talks-with-china-meaningful-but-more-needs-to-be-done-official

"Fentanyl is a leading cause of drug overdoses in the United States. The U.S. has said that China is the primary source of the precursor chemicals synthesized into fentanyl by drug cartels in Mexico. China denies this."​

Mexico's Sinaloa cartel built an empire on cocaine, but it's betting on another drug to feed US appetites

"If they want harder drugs, we will produce them and smuggle them ... You have to give the client what he asks for," a cartel member told Insider.

www.businessinsider.com

BBM/UBM

• But the cartel is shifting its focus to a new, more potent drug to keep up with changing US appetites.​
• At a lab in Sinaloa's heartland, cartel members told Insider how they're working to keep US drug users hooked.​

Pretty dumb plan by the cartels, since so many of their "addicted" customers are either dead or didn't know they consumed fentanyl and won't be asking for it in their next drug purchase. If they're cocaine users, they'll want coke (and according to the theory you're stating, they will get fentanyl with their coke, unknown to them).

At what point do these new opiate addicts realize they want fentanyl (cheaper than coke) instead of cocaine? Do they then make separate orders for fentanyl?

One major source of fentanyl in the US is and has been criminal pharmacy owners:

Founder and Owner of Pharmaceutical Company Insys Arrested and Charged with Racketeering

The founder and majority owner of Insys Therapeutics Inc., was arrested today and charged with leading a nationwide conspiracy to profit by using bribes and fraud to cause the illegal distribution of a Fentanyl spray intended for cancer patients experiencing breakthrough pain.

www.justice.gov

That's just one bust.

Of course most of the pills are coming up from Mexico, but it's my understanding that the cartels specialize in making pills that look like popular medicines like adderal and xanax (both of them sold without prescription by street drug dealers) and these are actually made using fentanyl.

https://www.dea.gov/alert/dea-laboratory-testing-reveals-6-out-10-fentanyl-laced-fake-prescription-pills-now-contain

So, the common vector for a fentanyl overdose (given the huge volume of fake Rx pills seized by the DEA and other agencies) is buying fake xanax or fake adderal. Is it possible that the three men in Kansas City thought they were taking something else? Xanax, perhaps, after a long day partying?
Six out of 10 of these fake Rx pills contain a lethal dose of fentanyl according to the DEA. I don't see how killing the end consumer results in more addicts for fentanyl.

I suppose the local dealers must know what they're really selling, if in fact heroin users are switching to fentanyl (disguised as something else when sold). Maybe that's the potential market. Drug dealers aren't known for their honesty and scruples, so I guess some of them off-load their surplus fake pills to unsuspecting people who think they are getting xanax or adderal.

i started this post thinking about cocaine laced with fentanyl. It exists:

https://www.dea.gov/sites/default/files/2018-07/BUL-039-18.pdf

It just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need to learn to think like a drug addict or a drug dealer. Do people actually know that they've been given coke and fentanyl in one powder? (Like a speedball?) Do they then request that from their dealers? In which case, your cartel theory makes sense - people want both products in one product and must surely be addicted to both?

There must be so many new users over time that the death of a significant fraction doesn't cause a drop in demand. Totally bizarre to think about. So scary.

 

[ch_13]

It was based on the outcome of the January 7th game (last game of the regular season) as far as who played who and where.

Kansas City had already won their division and clinched a playoff spot prior to the game on January 7. They knew they would have a home game on the 13th, the only thing they didn't know was their opponent.

The game was basically meaningless for them and they rested most of their starters.