MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

[katydid23]

You are right. I probably shouldnt have questioned whether it was a spiritual revelation or a chemical high. Guess it doesn't really matter anyway.
Personally, I have experienced both in my 60+ years.

ETA: In my defense, I have looked at his twitter and listened to his rap music, and seen the pictures of his immediate memorial where his friends brought bottles of NyQuil, and Capt. Morgan. If you add the blunt wraps then you get the ingredients for drug MOlly made out of cough syrup, and it does give one hallucinations.

 

[Muffet]

I wonder if there's a way to listen to it slowed down? (I mean for us, not FBI, I'm sure they can)

Yeah, the FBI will be able to separate all the audio streams into channels, and probably come out with a ton of information from it that is not audible to us.

(Assuming it's a legit recording of the incident)

 

[Ladylub]

I wonder if there's a way to listen to it slowed down? (I mean for us, not FBI, I'm sure they can)

Not sure how it will work for this but you can try it. Ill have to save it till morning when my brain is not so sleepy. If you go to YoutubeSlow.Com put in the youtube videos url you should be able to slow the video down. Last time I tried it on something else I found it had to much echo but worth a try.

 

[Muffet]

Lack of other voices or noises makes me question whether this is even authentic. Chatting dude doesn't even flinch after presumably hearing multiple gunshots. His voice doesn't change, he doesn't acknowledge them in any way. That makes this one bizarre tape, IMO.

Yeah. Maybe he was wearing a headset, but those were loud enough that even the girl should have been able to hear.

Heck, it could have been a real-time recording, but tweaked. Although I wouldn't hand a tweaked recording to the FBI!

 

[gngr~snap]

Of course, he had a good reason to lie. But what really pissed me off is that the entire town of Ferguson accepted his story and they still do. They still believe the two choirboys were walking to Grandma's, and the big mean white cop backed up, almost ran them over, then reached out, grabbed Mikey Mike by the neck with one hand, pulled out his gun with the other, yelled, I'ma gonna shoot now Boy, and began pumping him with bullets while he ran away.

I thought he'd be attending the funeral today. Is he in hiding? Did he leave the area for fear of what will happen when Ferguson finds out he embellished MB's story about not doing anything wrong? I really hope he doesn't have kids!
I just don't understand why he would lie in the first place...
Moo

All posts are MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Lack of other voices or noises makes me question whether this is even authentic. Chatting dude doesn't even flinch after presumably hearing multiple gunshots. His voice doesn't change, he doesn't acknowledge them in any way. That makes this one bizarre tape, IMO.

I think he was focused on another part of his anatomy. ...blushing...


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[gngr~snap]

I've been out and just heard the tape... Does anyone else hear what could have been a shot just before the guy says "you are pretty" (lol poor guy)

I keep replaying and hear something there.. Like a knocking sound.

It would make sense if that gun was fired inside the vehicle muffled by MB body. The rest fired out of the vehicle.

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[Linda7NJ]

He put what Mike handed him
Back on the counter..,I truly believe he wasn't looking for any sort of trouble that day.

His biggest mistake was and continues to be who he associates with.

All IMO


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I don't think "Big Mike" OR Officer Darren Wilson was "looking for trouble" Aug 9, 2014.

And forgive me, but I really, really, really do not believe MB was "spreading the word of the Lord!" Just ask the store clerk that he slammed around and roughed up if he thinks that was a result of a peaceful, gentle religious experience on the part of the one committing robbery and assault, lol! OMG-- this is really getting absurd.

It's my personal opinion that MB was acting impulsively-- both with the robbery/ assault at the liquor store, as well as the (IMO) assault on Officer Wilson that directly lead to his death.

I don't think "Big Mike" was preaching the "word of the Lord" on August 9th, as was stated at his memorial service. OMG-- that is just a hilarious invented turn of events! Oh my! Really?? Martyrdom alone by the memorial crowd was not enough?

I think he was acting out the actions of an experienced criminal and felon, as he casually and confidently robbed the liquor store and slammed around the clerk, who was half his size--followed minutes later by the assault of the police officer in his patrol vehicle. Nope. No spreading the "word of the Lord" there, IMO. Unless the Lord commands us to "go forth" and assault others whenever we feel like it.

I really wish the family had decided to have a private memorial/ funeral.

I really feel they have been exploited, albeit probably most willingly. When I compare this fiasco to the dignified and solemn funeral of a 2 star General, who spent about 30 years of his life serving the rights of the citizens of the U.S., I am appalled, embarrassed, and really disgusted at the "martyrdom" of a clearly criminal teen, compared to the dignified, consistent, and honorable service of a true American servant and hero. I am beyond disgusted at the actions of the White House with this criminal teen, as compared to the memorial of a real American hero. It's shameful, IMO, and makes me question the reason behind the many years I spent in uniform, and protecting the rights of this country. I don't know even know what to think anymore.[/QUOTE]

Personally. I don't believe a single word of the sudden alleged spiritual awakening. I believe it was manufactured for a purpose...like a casual stroll down the street to grandmas house. IMO


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[liloleme]

I'm confused, how would that tell you where OW was in relation to all this. I'm thinking that OW wasn't waiting for MB to come to him as in, "come at me bro". We don't know if OW was running after MB and DJ or where each stopped. And, why wouldn't an officer being attacked be considered a felony and shot not be justified?

Because some people live in an alternate reality, apparently.

I don't know. I really don't get it.

When I started carrying concealed, I would think, "could I really do this???" and I had to think about the logic behind it... 'I have 5 kids at home still...oh yeah I can do this.. if it's you or my kids, it's going to be you every single time and six times on SUNDAY! And if it's me or you, it's going to be YOU every single time and three times on Sunday!" That's when I started carrying one in the chamber and a backup gun in case something happens to my primary.

Put yourself in OW shoes. Moreover, put your son/daughter in OW shoes and you think about what you'd want them to do and then come back and revisit this conversation.

It's the other person, every single time.

 

[liloleme]

I read an article somewhere on this thread earlier where someone said that MB was spreading the word of Jesus the day he was killed.

ETA: http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/25/us/ferguson-michael-brown-funeral/?c=&page=4

What word was that? How Jesus stole cigars and shoved the person he had just robbed?

What kind of crack is being smoked?????????? It must be a special Missouri kind! (My husband is from Missouri so... haha)

 

[Muffet]

I really wish this had come out during the day. My head is foggy too, but I'm not going to be able to stop analyzing it even in my sleep tonight.

So many thoughts.

One thing it shows is how fast shots fly. I've been surprised by some comments on other sites from people who have no experience with guns.

 

[liloleme]

Presumably none of these officers were doing anything wrong.

Other than political blogs this is the only place I found this information other than a memorial site for donations.

On average, an officer is killed somewhere in the United States every 58 hours and annually more than 58,000 officers are assaulted resulting in nearly 16,000 injuries each year.

http://local.nixle.com/alert/5196102/

Let's not go muddling this with facts, Lambchop...

 

[Muffet]

It would make sense if that ine was firef inside the vehicle muffled by MB body. The rest fired out of the vehicle.

All posts are MOO

I think so too. Do you or anyone else hear it? It's just before the guy starts talking.

 

[K_Z]

Daryl Parks to NG who'd asked if MB had a juvie arrest record:

"I'll say this. He was a typical kid. Some situations [plural] may have occurred while (he was) a juvenile, but we need to not be at a point where we start to blame the victim."

The "situations occurred". And if "we" look at the situations with any lens EXCEPT one that deflects ANY blame of the participants' behavior, then we are BLAMING the "pseudo-victim" for his/ her involvement. And we are the racists, by the next extension, of these racial agitators and hustlers. We are supposed to IGNORE and EXCUSE criminal behavior by certain racial groups., IMO.

Beautiful example of externalizing, and deflecting any personal blame, IMO. Nothing is ever the "fault" of the person described by Attorney Parks-- every thing happens "to" them. They are always "blameless victims, at the mercy of events beyond their control". This is a cultural meme, IMO--no personal responsibility for pretty much anything in life.

"Situations happened"-- the participants hold no responsibility for any level of observation or participation, And violent crime and drug use, according to Attorney Parks, is "typical kid behavior." Oh my, really?? Maybe that is, in an of itself, the root of the problem??

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Wanted to bring this into the discussion, the SCOTUS opinion from Plumhof v. Rickard, decided in May of this year. This was a police shooting case in the context of a high speed car chase, but, along with Gardner, which it cites (posted somewhere in these threads), clarifies, I think what the narrow issues will be here.

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/12-1117_1bn5.pdf

A claim that law-enforcement officers used excessive force to effect a seizure is governed by the FourthAmendment’s “reasonableness” standard. See Graham v. Connor, 490 U. S. 386 (1989); Tennessee v. Garner, 471
U. S. 1 (1985). In Graham, we held that determining the objective reasonableness of a particular seizure under the Fourth Amendment “requires a careful balancing of thenature and quality of the intrusion on the individual’sFourth Amendment interests against the countervailing governmental interests at stake.” 490 U. S., at 396 (internal quotation marks omitted). The inquiry requires analyzing the totality of the circumstances. See ibid.
We analyze this question from the perspective “of areasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight.” Ibid. We thus “allo[w] for the factthat police officers are often forced to make split-secondjudgments—in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving—about the amount of force that isnecessary in a particular situation.” Id., at 396–397.

This would seem to bode well for DW. If in less than a minute he got the BOLO, realized Brown fit the description, confronted Brown, and if Brown assaulted him and/or went for his gun, this would definitely be a rapidly evolving situation. Assaulting a police officer is a felony, right? It's hard to imagine if in fact that is how things went down making an argument that a reasonable officer in the circumstance described would not have seen Brown as a threat.

We now consider respondent’s contention that, even ifthe use of deadly force was permissible, petitioners actedunreasonably in firing a total of 15 shots. We reject that argument. It stands to reason that, if police officers are justified in firing at a suspect in order to end a severethreat to public safety, the officers need not stop shooting until the threat has ended. As petitioners noted below, “if lethal force is justified, officers are taught to keep shooting until the threat is over.” 509 Fed. Appx., at 392. Here, during the 10-second span when all the shots werefired, Rickard never abandoned his attempt to flee. Indeed, even after all the shots had been fired, he managed to drive away and to continue driving until he crashed.This would be a different case if petitioners had initiated a second round of shots after an initial round had clearly incapacitated Rickard and had ended any threat of continued flight, or if Rickard had clearly given himself up.

BBM. This passage would seem to play both ways. J. Alito is pretty clear about the officer having a right to shoot until the threat has ended. However, in light of the audio, if in fact it is authentic, is that pause enough to be a second round of shots? Arguably so. Was Brown so incapacitated at that time that any threat of continued flight was ended? Keep in mind as well that this case is a car chase case. A speeding car can indeed be a very lethal weapon. If this goes to trial, a lot of this may weigh on exactly how much of a threat the jury considers Brown at the time of the incident. Yes, one side will argue that he is a 6'4" 300 lb guy who strong armed a clerk, assaulted an officer, tried to get his gun, then attempted to flee. The other side may well say yes, but at the end of all that he was still an unarmed man on foot, and that the risk from an unarmed man on foot was not significant enough to warrant deadly force.

After surveying lower court decisions regarding the reasonableness of lethal force as a response to vehicular flight, we observed that this is an area “in which the result depends very much on the facts of each case”

This should tell us that everything matters: The cigar theft, the shoving the clerk, the officer's demeanor, Brown's demeanor, what happened with the car door, etc. etc. I think the two biggest things in this case will end up being 1) Were Wilson's actions at the scene what a reasonable officer in the same position would have done? and 2) Was MB such a threat to the community that deadly force was required to prevent further serious harm to the officer or others.

IANAL, and all that.

ETA: It's worth mentioning that the petition here stemmed from a civil suit and not a criminal conviction. However it would seem that the logic is essentially the same. In both cases the grounds for civil and criminal liability here revolve around the taking of the life of a suspect by an officer and whether that was justified.

 

[gngr~snap]

BBM

I've experienced several powerfully spiritual events during the course of my lifetime - most of them when I was immersed in the natural environment.

There have been times (when I was much younger and less wiser) when I recounted my experiences to others and was met with disbelief at the least, and with scorn & ridicule at the worst. It taught me to exercise caution regarding who was worthy of trust. As I've grown older and have chosen my friends and confidants more carefully, I've been met with much more supportive responses regarding my sacred experiences.

If MB had a spiritually profound experience, why should anyone discount it? Why should anyone try to make it less than it was to him?

When Nature reveals Herself to someone, when Spirit speaks to someone, it is a sacred moment that should not be denigrated by anyone.

Regardless of the truth of the circumstances regarding the shooting that ended Michael Brown's life - I'm glad for him that he experienced a moment of Union with the Divine while he walked upon this Earth.

Out of veryone I have known that had a truly powerful spiritual event, every one of them did a 180° turn. There is no way they woukd continue to smoke or steal swisher cigarillos after the fact.
If it was a chemical spiritual event then, yeah, chances are that's exactly what they might do...
I have had Deja' vu, and premonitions that have come true more than I want to admit...
5 deaths and an almost fatal wound.

Never spoke to anything that everyone else could not see...
and it never spoke to me.

Are we sure this wasn't suicide by LE? Could he have known the guy that stole the drinks and was shot a few days later?

That surr sounded like a cooy cat! The way he set the stolen goods on the ground and waited...
Just like MB would not get out od the street. (baited OW?)
Sure seems like DJ didn't have a death wish. Mb knew better, his dad said so..
Confused
Moo

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[gngr~snap]

I think so too. Do you or anyone else hear it? It's just before the guy starts talking.

I count 12... :dunno:
BUT, I am a pediatric nurse and used to counting a newborn's heart rate. Some 150-160 beats per min. 1988- before we had digital ways to count it...
Maybe I am hearing something that isn't there?


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[liloleme]

In the context of this case, the question is, was it immediately necessary. If it wasn't immediately necessary, you don't even get to the question of a felony having been committed or if there was a threat to life or limb. Outside of this case, some of the immediate questions I'd have about how that is interpreted is a situation where an officer unlawfully causes one to "commit a felony." Also, felony is a legal term that requires a trial or guilty plea before one can be said to have committed a felony. Is the officer the sole judge and arbiter or whether or not a felony was committed? Another question...under that interpretation of the statute a cop is justified in shooting you for passing a bad check, a class D felony. Something tells me (though I haven't researched it) that that just isn't going to fly with a jury if a completely non-violent, 80 pound woman is shot because she wrote a bad check.

Are we talking about writing a bad check? <modsnip>

We're talking about MB who had just committed a robbery (felony) and who had just got into a fight with a police officer at his car (felony).

And, how does one "cause someone to commit a felony"?

 

[Muffet]

OK, now I can't get the video to reload. It's a gift, since I fear I'd be replaying it all night and running it through my audio software, to no avail.
I'm out. Goodnight, everyone!

 

[liloleme]

I'm not talking about reloading. I'm talking about how many rounds were in officer Wilson's gun to begin with.

To get 13 rounds in a gun with a 12 round magazine you have to chamber a round, remove the magazine and add one more round to it.

We do that, but.. what's your point?