MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #9

[ClaireNC]

Well, I know for a FACT that I could sit and answer questions until I physically dropped if my child was missing and that there was ANY chance at all of finding the child by what I was able to tell them. Not to say that I wouldn't go unglued several times during the interview, but I'd do it because I believe that my discomfort would take a minor role compared to my missing child.

While my incident was minor, it brings perspective on how LE take the smallest things as being threatening or not being co-operative. If you think about the people that LE generally deals with, it is easier to understand.

My son graduated college about a month after he turned 18. A few days after graduation he and some friends were celebrating by lighting off some fire works. Unfortunately, they crossed into land owned by the NJ dept of transit to do their celebration i.e. they were "near" some train tracks. The police came and arrested them. Since my son was the only one over the age of 18, he was cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car. The other 3 boys with him were 17. My son managed to call me in a panic from back of the car and I jumped in the car and drove to the police station.

Since the other boys were minors, the parents were welcomed and escorted right away into the back. I sat for over 2 hours waiting to hear any news about my son. I asked at the desk, waited another 1/2 hour and asked again. When I went back the second time, an officer came out and said I was being threatening and needed to be guarded. So I sat for another 2 hours with a police guard until they finally decided to let my son come home...just as the sun was rising.

 

[gliving]

What time was the interview? If it started at 9 am and lasted 11 hours until 8 pm. they would probably have been very tired but not IMO sleep deprived yet. At least, not because of the interview. They might have had several sleepless nights before that but I'm not sure if it can be laid solely on the LE's door, I bet many parents of missing children have trouble sleeping.

I think LE likes to question a person for as many hours as they can for severao reasons. Very important would be to see if the person starts showing signs of drug or alcohol withdraw.

Not saying that's the case here by any means.

 

[nursebeeme]

:waitasec: Hu? JI waited 2 days to mention missing phones?

the missing phones were reported on day one... I forget which thread it is in... I posted the video/link to it.... ((the aunt is the one who told the reporter 'the phones were taken' and the reporter mis-reported it that LE had taken the phones))

it may (the link) be in shelby's timeline??? ((I need to look))

 

[In da Middle]

There is no name attached to the address (gained via google view) in Knowx. I hope that's an ok sleuth to mention as it produced nothing. There appear to be civilians in the yard speaking to officers, though. I have no idea what the significance is, but you would think neighbors would notice any recent squatter or shenanigans. Wasn't there, per a local, discusison of a nearby foreclosed property being renovated?

If you are out there, local person, is this the non-lived in house?

Not going into the name attached to the property but no this is NOT an abandoned house and NO this is not the foreclosed property no squatters. This is what it is. As I mentioned before 'issues'.

 

[Wishbone]

I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.

Hard to believe and varies from state to state.....

In many states, whenever a child is born to a married couple, the husband is automatically presumed to be the father. This is know as the "presumption of paternity."

Some states even take the presumption of paternity one step further by not allowing a man to disprove biological paternity through DNA. As a result, some men are forced to pay child support for children they have not biologically fathered.

 

[epiphany]

Jeanne P Show

JP: hear DNA taken from teen who had access to garage?
Captain Steve Young (tonight): ...i can assure you we are trying everything

 

[mindi77]

I've never heard such a thing, no. And certainly not in an estranged or separated situation. No idea where you got that. Matrimonial law varies dramatically from state to state, but I've never heard anything like that before. The father is the father.

I was not with my ex for a few years and didnt get a divorce at the time couldn't afford it when me and my new boyfriend had our son. They wouldn't let me get divorced till he was born and said my said would have to have my ex listed as the father because we were still married. I said the hell I do, when I gave birth they said are you married....I said nope and it worked out but the tried to do that.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Really? Well, jeez, I never heard any such thing before. As far as I know, there is no such thing as "constitutional law" on marriage. Or at least very little of it (that's why the states are free to "recognize" different kinds of marriages, for example). But hey, anything is possible in the world of matrimonial law.... Sadly.

It came up in constitutional law class (law student here) - I believe the case had to do with saying the pledge in school, or something to that effect, where the biological father was trying to assert a constitutional right with regards to his biological child, but the Supreme Court ruled she was legally considered the child of the spouse, since she was conceived in marriage. Con Law was two years ago for me, so I'm fuzzy on the details, but I know that back in the day, kids in marriage were considered the child of the spouse, despite true paternity - but as I said, I'm sure things have changed since then.

 

[epiphany]

Jeanne P: was front door locked or unlocked?

Mom: I don't remember

 

[norest4thewicked]

You mean you're a CSI Miami fan??? Oh, the horror!!!

(joke).

I wish we would get some news about Lisa, or suspects or anything. We're like a bunch of cats chasing our tails at this point.

SHUT YOUR MOUTH about me being a CSI Miami fan! lol I would rather chew on razor blades!!! Actually, tried to watch CSI something one time and couldn't even get to the first commercial before I turned it off.

I think that news will be coming soon. I have to admit that I don't know what that news will be, but I just don't feel that this case will be one that isn't solved.

 

[Cappuccino]

Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.

LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.

Studies into false confessions have shown that 12 hours is the most dangerous time. Regardless of whether they've been to the bathroom or had a drink or snack, after 12 hours of questioning an innocent person is most at risk of confessing to a crime they didn't commit.

Jerry Hobbs withstood 14, but that didn't save him from 5 years in prison while a serial killer was running around killing other children. So I repeat, if you find yourself being questioned for 11 hours solid by LE, even with the odd bathroom break, the wise thing to do is end the interview and insist on going home.

And what else did LE need anyway? What questions did they neglect to ask during those 11 hours? I know full well parents need to be questioned, and I know crimes can't be cleared in an hour, but what exactly did LE expect to get in the 12th hour that they didn't get in the first 11?

It sounds to me like they had tunnel vision because the mom failed her polygraph and they were in the process of rail roading, when the husband very sensibly put a stop to it.

 

[SuziQ]

I wonder if her checkered past has more to do some type of welfare fraud such as food stamps or unpaid debts and running from collectors.

JMO

I think the video interview revealed that there wasn't a checkered past.

 

[MyBelle]

Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.

LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.

I have to agree. I don't know how any mother could sleep during that time whether being questioned or not.

JMO

 

[marge_rita]

the missing phones were reported on day one... I forget which thread it is in... I posted the video/link to it.... ((the aunt is the one who told the reporter 'the phones were taken' and the reporter mis-reported it that LE had taken the phones))

it may (the link) be in shelby's timeline??? ((I need to look))

Someone posted it for me (us) a few pages back.
LE immediately knew the phones were missing. The public didn't.

 

[MyBelle]

I think the video interview revealed that there wasn't a checkered past.

okay. I thought it was some type of teaser for a news report not yet aired. Thanks.

 

[davehead21]

Respectfully... yes...wasn't that the ultimate goal? They obviously had a reason to keep talking to the parents. A person will not be sleep deprived after 11 hours of questioning, even if they have been awake for the previous 11 hours. We know that dad was, but according to mom, she had sleep already before dad came home, and she was the one reportedly being questioned and accused the most. When you think of 11 hours, this time would fly by with talking to different people, taking the polygraph, telling the story several times. It's really not that much. And, I believe that they were offered something to drink during this time, given time to go to the bathroom, etc. Sure, they were not allowed to go home, but I bet they got time to do minor personal things.

LE has the responsibility of bringing the child home. They aren't going to get to the truth without questioning people, especially the parents.

I'm sorry but 11 hours while my child was missing would most certainly NOT fly by. Not saying that's not where the mother should've been but I don't think that time flew by for her. :twocents:

 

[AnaTeresa]

... Somehow I'm glad I don't live in Ohio... (j/k).

We also can't eat cornflakes on Sunday BUT, no one may be arrested on Sunday or on the Fourth of July, so it's not so bad.*




*Yes, we ignore these laws.

 

[Just-a-Guy]

There is also an element of protection of the child, to prevent harm or scandal associated with being the product of an extramarital affair and to protect the stability of the family. The US Supreme Court has actually ruled that a man has no right to interfere with a family or to exercise his paternity, even when DNA has proven that he is certainly a child's biological father.

Fascinating. I just had a quick look at the case. It looks like the Court held that there was not a constitutional issue... IOW, due process was not implicated by a state law that created a presumption of paternity in favor of the husband. So it's one of those "reverse constitutional law" cases. Meaning, there is no constitutional law...it's a state law question. So, the Supreme Court holding was not "that a man has no right to interfere with a family or to exercise his paternity..." That would be an affirmative constitutional ruling (and would surprise me). The holding was simply that the state law creating the presumption was not unconstitutional.

I'm learning stuff here, though. Very interesting...and potentially relevant to this case. Thanks...

 

[epiphany]

Jeanne P

Mom: him coming in t bedroom; he came in bedroom-why r the lights on? why is t screen popped out? I don't know what ur talking about...he asked why M (son in her bed) was there...he came in t room and he asked where Lisa was...

 

[norest4thewicked]

While my incident was minor, it brings perspective on how LE take the smallest things as being threatening or not being co-operative. If you think about the people that LE generally deals with, it is easier to understand.

My son graduated college about a month after he turned 18. A few days after graduation he and some friends were celebrating by lighting off some fire works. Unfortunately, they crossed into land owned by the NJ dept of transit to do their celebration i.e. they were "near" some train tracks. The police came and arrested them. Since my son was the only one over the age of 18, he was cuffed and thrown in the back of a police car. The other 3 boys with him were 17. My son managed to call me in a panic from back of the car and I jumped in the car and drove to the police station.

Since the other boys were minors, the parents were welcomed and escorted right away into the back. I sat for over 2 hours waiting to hear any news about my son. I asked at the desk, waited another 1/2 hour and asked again. When I went back the second time, an officer came out and said I was being threatening and needed to be guarded. So I sat for another 2 hours with a police guard until they finally decided to let my son come home...just as the sun was rising.

I can see why you would have your view then. And thank God that your situation WAS a minor one in comparison to this. But, when you think about it, if they were that hard on your son for something like that, you can understand how they could have been so strong with the parents. There can be several factors in interrogations and each one is unique. I hope your case turned out okay in the end.