MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 mos, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011

[redheadedgal]

There seemed to be quite a bit of withheld information at the beginning regarding who came over and who did what. The fact that one party might change their stories or withhold information still does not make them guilty of the disappearance. That they did so might have been based on other reasons...a fear of having a certain charge laid against them (should drugs have been involved); a worry that child services may try to take the children away; and finally, losing someone on whom you have to rely on for support. All are serious reasons that could weigh in.

What if the phones were stolen by another person who came to the house earlier that night and who saw them on the counter.

Meanwhile, while he/she is making a call at 11:57PM, someone is really breaking into the house to carry out the abduction.

there is no good reason to withhold any evidence if your child has been kidnapped and you want to find her. none!

and imo, it's a case of jumping the shark to postulate that this house was broken into twice that night... the only night JI worked a late night shift and DB claims to have blacked out drunk. way too convoluted for my thinking. jmo.

 

[Razz]

mary katherine smart saw her sister taken. and evidence was found (footwear) belonging to the man who kidnapped riley. neither of those variables have been proven to exist in this case. fwiw.

Well, we don't know what the boys saw. Who knows, they too may remember something at a later date. And, if I recall correctly, an uncle came up deceptive on a lie detector test and the police were so focused on 1 person (who was finally vindicated after his death) that police ''missed'' the true abductor and Elizabeth's torment dragged on.

 

[askfornina]

This is everything KCPD has said publicly since late 2012, to the best of my knowledge.

September 27th 2012:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/27/us-usa-crime-missouri-baby-idUSBRE88Q1SK20120927

Captain Steve Young, spokesman for Kansas City police, declined to discuss the level of cooperation investigators are getting from Bradley and Irwin but said that will be part of a statement on the case released Friday.

Young said police are still getting tips in the case.

"They come and go," he said.

September 28th 2012:

One year anniversary KCPD press release:

http://media.kshb.com/pdf/LisaIrwinStatement.pdf

One year later, police still looking for answers in Lisa Irwin disappearance

As the one-year anniversary of the Lisa Irwin disappearance nears, Kansas City Missouri Police continue to actively investigate the case.

Police and their FBI partners have investigated 1,667 tips since 10-month-old Lisa went missing from her home in the 3600 block of North Lister in the early morning hours of Oct. 4, 2011. They are checking into about a dozen tips at present. Five hundred of the total tips have been infant sightings across the United States and internationally. Police thank the FBI agents and detectives at other law enforcement agencies – domestically and overseas – who investigated each of these sightings. None of them was determined to be Lisa Irwin.

A KCPD detective and FBI agent actively work the case nearly every day. They still are looking for quality tips. They have gone back over nearly 100 previously closed leads, re-interviewing those involved, to ensure they haven’t missed anything. They and Crime Lab analysts also have re-evaluated several pieces of forensic evidence. Dozens more detectives stand at the ready to investigate a break in the case.

Police have exhausted leads provided by Lisa Irwin’s family and their attorneys, and the leads were of no benefit to the investigation. While communication with the family has been ongoing, police have not had the opportunity to sit down one-on-one to speak with Lisa’s mother, Deborah Bradley. As the only adult in the home at the time of the baby’s disappearance, police continue to have questions to which only she can provide answers.

Detectives have reviewed the entire case file with subject matter experts from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children in Alexandria, Va. The subject matter experts continue to offer their assistance in any matter needed.

Detectives remain hopeful for quality tips that will lead them to Lisa. However, several tips stemming from social media and online rumors have been reported, detracting from detectives’ ability to work legitimate case leads. Police ask anyone with substantial knowledge of what happened to Lisa Irwin to call the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (8477).

Because the Lisa Irwin disappearance remains an active, open investigation, Kansas City Police will not grant any further interviews.

http://www.kctv5.com/story/19667428/police-baby-lisa-irwins-mom-only-one-who-can-provide-answers

Young said police "are not putting any label" on Bradley when asked by KCTV5 whether she is a person of interest.

"We still have questions that need answered as the news release states," he said.

September 29th 2012:

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/09/29/3839049/a-year-of-questions-finds-few.html

The link above has the interview with Sgt. Sondra Zink I referenced earlier.

October 2nd 2012:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/missing-ba...hes-gifts-year/story?id=17375065#.UYzHG0rSy7X

"It's been tough for a long time," Capt. Steve Young told ABCNews.com. "It's still an open case and we still seek and need quality tips and leads."

Despite the differences between police and parents, hope remains on both sides.

"We'll follow up on every tip and we hope that one of those tips leads to that conclusion," Young said.

September 6th 2013:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPUKGVqtUBA

Reporter: One question that keeps coming up from folks- and again, this is a little bit off topic, but a lot of folks say they haven't heard anything about the search for baby Lisa Irwin for a long time and they don't feel like there's been an update. Is there anything that you could tell us about that case?

Chief Forte: We work leads as they come in. We work with behavioral specialists and those sorts of people- FBI, Quantico, VA. So, sometimes we release some things that people may think may not be, uh, appropriate because we're getting advice from other people. So, again, when we get leads-

Reporter: Some folks are saying, you know, is the investigation over? Is nothing being done? We got a couple questions like that, I guess to put that to you- just because we're not hearing about developments doesn't mean you're not doing something.

Chief Forte: That's absolutely correct. And sometimes, again, when we get leads- we work all our leads. But, if there's no leads coming in, there's really nothing to work. We're constantly, again, looking for leads, and asking people- if anybody knows anything now, contact us.

Reporter: Would you describe that as a frustrating case at this point?

Chief Forte: Absolutely. All of the unsolved missing persons cases--homicide cases, they're frustrating. Very frustrating.

October 1st 2013:

http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/L...ideos/KMBC/clip0016_zps05f5fd53.mp4.html?o=12

Question: "As we approach two years since baby Lisa Irwin went missing, are there any suspects in her disappearance?"

Chief Forte: "No, there are no suspects at this point. We work every lead as they come in. We don't shelve them or anything like that. So, as we receive leads- and I ask anyone out there- if you saw anything during that period of time, regardless of how minor you think it might be- let us know. Somebody seen something. Somebody seen something out there, and someone knows something. "

October 2, 2013:

Two year anniversary press release:

http://kcmo.gov/police/media-public...ion-two-years-after-lisa-irwin-disappearance/

Police still seeking information two years after Lisa Irwin disappearance

As the second anniversary of the disappearance of Lisa Irwin approaches, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children has released an age-progressed photo of the girl, and police continue to ask for tips.

Lisa was 10 months old when she went missing from her home in the 3600 block of North Lister. She was last seen about 6 p.m. October 3, 2011. She would be 3 years old on November 11. Kansas City Police and the FBI have investigated more than 1,770 tips in the case, including infant sightings across the nation and around the world.

Police continue to seek tips in the case and ask anyone with substantial information in Lisa’s disappearance to please come forward by calling the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (8477). Lisa has a birthmark on her right thigh and was last known to be wearing purple pants and a purple shirt with kittens on it. The attached flier depicts what she might look like today.

Because the Lisa Irwin disappearance remains an active, open investigation, Kansas City Police will not grant any further interviews.

November 12th 2013:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=770181149663979

Question:"Chief Forte, has Lisa Irwin's age progression image generated any promising leads? Does KCPD still want to question Lisa's mother one-on-one?"

Chief Forte: "Yes, we've gotten leads- we got quite a few leads when the photo came out, and no, we don't want to talk to the mother again. There is no need to talk to the mother again."

October 3, 2014:

Three year anniversary press release:

http://kcmo.gov/police/media-public...n-three-years-after-lisa-irwin-disappearance/

Police still seeking information three years after Lisa Irwin disappearance

Three years after the disappearance of baby Lisa Irwin, police continue to actively investigate her case.

Lisa was 10 months old when she went missing from her home in the 3600 block of North Lister. She was last seen about 6 p.m. October 3, 2011. She would be 4 years old on November 11. Since this time last year, Kansas City Police have investigated about 100 tips in the case, following them until each lead was exhausted.

Police continue to seek tips in the case and ask anyone with substantial information in Lisa’s disappearance to please come forward by calling the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (8477).

Lisa has blonde hair, blue eyes, a birthmark on her right thigh and was last known to be wearing purple pants and a purple shirt with kittens on it. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children released an age-progressed photo of her last year, which is available on the KCPD web site at http://kcmo.gov/police/missing-persons/lisa-irwin-missing.

Because the Lisa Irwin disappearance remains an active, open investigation, Kansas City Police will not grant any further interviews.

January 5th 2015:

https://twitter.com/kcpolice/status/552133468889440256

@<twitteruser>Just finished watching #babylisa special. @kcpolice any thoughts? Jersey Mike?

Kansas City Police &#8207;@kcpolice
Sorry, we really can't say. But this case has not gone cold. Detectives still investigating.
10:04 AM - 5 Jan 2015

 

[Razz]

I cannot find an interview of the husband who watched the man with the baby. I only saw the wife interview with Spellman and she didn't give a hair description. Is there an interview somewhere of the husband? According to the wife, he called her after he left to make sure the man was not still outside.

 

[askfornina]

I cannot find an interview of the husband who watched the man with the baby. I only saw the wife interview with Spellman and she didn't give a hair description. Is there an interview somewhere of the husband? According to the wife, he called her after he left to make sure the man was not still outside.

The husband didn't want to appear on camera. Here is the wife talking to the media on the first day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dat9pHtx-9U

In this video several weeks after Lisa's disappearance, she says the man was bald...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eIE14c61N0

 

[Razz]

Really what I (and everyone else) needs is the complete case file.

Askfornina, I downloaded the scrib. App. but couldn't figure out how to download your file.

When I originally started reading this, I was thinking, there must not be a back entrance as it was never mentioned. However, there is one on the top floor and on the ground level along with the garage. Were these entrances ever examined and what rooms are on the ground level? Where did the kids watch the movie. Could someone have entered through the downstairs and taken baby Lisa that way.

What did you mean, ''didn't hear from Samantha Brando.'' Or was it that she didn't go on TV.

It appears they did a lot of searching around the Walrond home. I don't see Debra physically being able to get far with a 30 lb. baby.

The two empty houses were interesting. Especially the one searched on Oct, 15 located at Chouteau Parkway and 38th? where they found dirty diapers and other interesting things.

The only thing Capt. Young kept from doing (imo) was roll his eyes. He was one of the main people who tried to set the media against Debra Bradley and Jeremy Irwin.
It appeared to me that anything that wasn't somehow related to Debra Bradley was a waste of time. His bias was very apparent from the beginning. GARAGE.

 

[Razz]

The husband didn't want to appear on camera. Here is the wife talking to the media on the first day...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dat9pHtx-9U

In this video several weeks after Lisa's disappearance, she says the man was bald...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eIE14c61N0

That is very interesting! By the time police started knocking on doors that morning, Lisa was long gone. I do have to agree with Mr. Tapioca ( that's for you, Melissasmom ), the police missed a lot of great opportunities while focusing on Debra.

 

[Leomoon80]

Does anyone remember this and if it was solved?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47502...baby-lisa-debit-card-fraud-clue/#.T7pJ-dyPmAg

Jeremy Irwin and Deborah Bradley, whose 10-month-old daughter Lisa disappeared on the night of Oct. 4,2011 appeared on TODAY Monday along with their attorney to discuss the latest wrinkles in the case. In early November, just over a month after Lisa vanished, Irwin said his debit card was stolen. The card was suspended for a fraudulent charge for $69.04 while two other charges were attempted. He said the charge was made to a British website that advertises a service to legally change your name or your child&#8217;s name online

 

[redheadedgal]

It appears they did a lot of searching around the Walrond home. I don't see Debra physically being able to get far with a 30 lb. baby.

The two empty houses were interesting. Especially the one searched on Oct, 15 located at Chouteau Parkway and 38th? where they found dirty diapers and other interesting things.

The only thing Capt. Young kept from doing (imo) was roll his eyes. He was one of the main people who tried to set the media against Debra Bradley and Jeremy Irwin.
It appeared to me that anything that wasn't somehow related to Debra Bradley was a waste of time. His bias was very apparent from the beginning. GARAGE.

lisa was not 30 pounds. this is what 30 pounds of fat looks like (20 +10). lisa was smaller. ever consider DB gave an erroneous weight to skew thinking as above demonstrates?



and lisa was not in the 95th percentile as DB said either: if she was, she wouldn't have reached 30 pounds until about 20 months old:



for comparison: here is a 9 mo old @ 12 pounds and a 23 mo old @ 24 pounds: was lisa larger than this 2 year old??!!! (did DB ever show lisa's growth chart?)


http://www.snap-ez.com/ReviewsMultiSizePocketDiaper.html


and as for SY, i see the comments made against him as being as biased as he is accused of being. however, the truth can be found here: http://abclocal.go.com/story?section=news/national_world&id=8399522

both houses were cleared of anything to do with LI.

 

[redheadedgal]

Does anyone remember this and if it was solved?

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/47502...baby-lisa-debit-card-fraud-clue/#.T7pJ-dyPmAg

the website was really a stationary site, as was where the credit/debit charge was made. it was all just a bunch of ridiculous-ness. more smoke and mirrors and trying to fool the public. imo.

tacopina claims to have seen the name change website for himself before it magically turned into the stationary store but afaik, he never showed a screencap of it (with a date stamp). hmmm.

 

[RANCH]

When I originally started reading this, I was thinking, there must not be a back entrance as it was never mentioned. However, there is one on the top floor and on the ground level along with the garage. Were these entrances ever examined and what rooms are on the ground level? Where did the kids watch the movie. Could someone have entered through the downstairs and taken baby Lisa that way.

SBM and BBM



Razz, this is a post I made in March 2012. I still think that it's a possibility.

Maybe an intruder entered the garage via an unlocked door, went up the stairs into the computer room. He then went into the kitchen and pocketed the cell phones and then proceeded straight to Lisa's room. He then left via the same route used to enter. JMO.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ories-(intruder-did-it)&p=7692662#post7692662

 

[askfornina]

Askfornina, I downloaded the scrib. App. but couldn't figure out how to download your file.

Go to the scribd app on your phone/tablet and search for "Lisa Irwin". Scroll through the documents and select the one that says "Lisa Irwin News Articles" I just downloaded the scribd app on my phone and was able to see it that way. Hope that helps.

When I originally started reading this, I was thinking, there must not be a back entrance as it was never mentioned. However, there is one on the top floor and on the ground level along with the garage. Were these entrances ever examined and what rooms are on the ground level? Where did the kids watch the movie. Could someone have entered through the downstairs and taken baby Lisa that way.

The kids watched the movie in the boy's bedroom, according to Deborah. The search warrant states that possible points of entry were processed for DNA/fingerprints.

Here's a quote from Tacopina...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVIGvJolR2k

JT: "Exactly. And they've never actually said "Here's what happened, they went in through the window." But I will tell you this, there was also another point of entry, that no one seemed to focus on, you know, the garage door, was actually off the tracks, it was a door that all you had to do was, with a pinky, lift it up. It hadn't been locked, it was a very light aluminum garage door in the back of the house. Even if the door was locked when Deborah went to bed, obviously someone could unlock it and leave the house, as they did with those phones and unfortunately Lisa."

What did you mean, ''didn't hear from Samantha Brando.'' Or was it that she didn't go on TV.

Yes, I mean she didn't talk to the media. The police surely spoke with SB on the first day. She was also seen with the Irwin family on more than one occasion while they were staying at the Walrond home. Her husband spoke with Jim Spellman- read about what he said and much more in the Jim Spellman Q&A thread (the whole thread is a must-read imo)..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...an-Q-amp-A-Only-**NO-DISCUSSION-HERE-PLEASE**

The two empty houses were interesting. Especially the one searched on Oct, 15 located at Chouteau Parkway and 38th? where they found dirty diapers and other interesting things.

The house with the dirty diapers was determined to be unrelated. The dirty diapers were not fresh- they had been there for quite some time.

That is very interesting! By the time police started knocking on doors that morning, Lisa was long gone. I do have to agree with Mr. Tapioca ( that's for you, Melissasmom ), the police missed a lot of great opportunities while focusing on Debra.

In all fairness to the KCPD*, they did seemingly investigate everything that came their way. I think they were (understandably) focused on Deborah, but there's no indication that it was at the expense of other leads. On Oct. 21st 2011, the wife from the first sighting told the media that police had interviewed her 4 times. (link to that info in one of the videos posted upthread) A detective tried to get in touch with Megan Wright at 8:30am on the 4th, so police apparently knew about the 11:57 phone call within the first four hours. Megan Wright said she was questioned many times. Looking at the early media reports, it is clear KCPD/FBI were all over the neighborhood talking with neighbors and looking everywhere they could for Lisa or any possible evidence. They were asking about Jersey around the neighborhood early on. They had a lot of manpower on this. I believe they were looking at all possible angles. In the Jim Spellman thread you can read about SB's husband's experience with KCPD and how hard they focused on him before they "moved on". I cannot explain/understand why none of this investigating has led to an arrest or Lisa.

*The FBI has also been investigating the case since the first day.

Photos of Lisa Irwin:

http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/LisaIrwinArchive/library/Lisa Irwin Pictures

 

[Razz]

I do think this a real possibility. Thank you for the great layout of the house.

Was the computer window that appeared to be tampered with, the window facing the front, or the one on the side?

Does anyone know what was on the ground level? An unfinished basement? More bedrooms?

I am wondering if I disregarded Mike Thompson's input too soon. He identified the man ( from a photo line up given by ??) as Samantha Brando's husband! Wow. That adds another twist. I wonder if he could have known the garage code and given it to Tanko, plus the layout of the house. He would have seen the phones charging on the counter as he came up the steps from the lower level. This makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[RANCH]

Go to the scribd app on your phone/tablet and search for "Lisa Irwin". Scroll through the documents and select the one that says "Lisa Irwin News Articles" I just downloaded the scribd app on my phone and was able to see it that way. Hope that helps.



The kids watched the movie in the boy's bedroom, according to Deborah. The search warrant states that possible points of entry were processed for DNA/fingerprints.

Here's a quote from Tacopina...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVIGvJolR2k

JT: "Exactly. And they've never actually said "Here's what happened, they went in through the window." But I will tell you this, there was also another point of entry, that no one seemed to focus on, you know, the garage door, was actually off the tracks, it was a door that all you had to do was, with a pinky, lift it up. It hadn't been locked, it was a very light aluminum garage door in the back of the house. Even if the door was locked when Deborah went to bed, obviously someone could unlock it and leave the house, as they did with those phones and unfortunately Lisa."



Yes, I mean she didn't talk to the media. The police surely spoke with SB on the first day. She was also seen with the Irwin family on more than one occasion while they were staying at the Walrond home. Her husband spoke with Jim Spellman- read about what he said and much more in the Jim Spellman Q&A thread (the whole thread is a must-read imo)..

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...an-Q-amp-A-Only-**NO-DISCUSSION-HERE-PLEASE**



The house with the dirty diapers was determined to be unrelated. The dirty diapers were not fresh- they had been there for quite some time.



In all fairness to the KCPD*, they did seemingly investigate everything that came their way. I think they were (understandably) focused on Deborah, but there's no indication that it was at the expense of other leads. On Oct. 21st 2011, the wife from the first sighting told the media that police had interviewed her 4 times. (link to that info in one of the videos posted upthread) A detective tried to get in touch with Megan Wright at 8:30am on the 4th, so police apparently knew about the 11:57 phone call within the first four hours. Megan Wright said she was questioned many times. Looking at the early media reports, it is clear KCPD/FBI were all over the neighborhood talking with neighbors and looking everywhere they could for Lisa or any possible evidence. They were asking about Jersey around the neighborhood early on. They had a lot of manpower on this. I believe they were looking at all possible angles. In the Jim Spellman thread you can read about SB's husband's experience with KCPD and how hard they focused on him before they "moved on". I cannot explain/understand why none of this investigating has led to an arrest or Lisa.

*The FBI has also been investigating the case since the first day.

Photos of Lisa Irwin:

http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/LisaIrwinArchive/library/Lisa Irwin Pictures

BBM
I agree it's understandable that KCPD looked at Deborah hard and fast.

Hopefully they have looked at all angles in this case. My concern is that they will not release information that can help us understand this case because it may make them look bad. JMO.

 

[Razz]

Had Capt Young been the spokesman for my case, I would have been in the chief's office after the 1st week and demanded someone else. He unfairly colored the case by saying, "They've quit cooperating in the case." That was not true and an intimidation tactic used to shake Bradley and Irwin.

 

[RANCH]

I do think this a real possibility. Thank you for the great layout of the house.

Was the computer window that appeared to be tampered with, the window facing the front, or the one on the side?

Does anyone know what was on the ground level? An unfinished basement? More bedrooms?.

It was the front window if I recall correctly. The back ground level is just a garage with stairs going up to the living area.

 

[redheadedgal]

Well, we don't know what the boys saw. Who knows, they too may remember something at a later date. And, if I recall correctly, an uncle came up deceptive on a lie detector test and the police were so focused on 1 person (who was finally vindicated after his death) that police ''missed'' the true abductor and Elizabeth's torment dragged on.

the boys were asleep in other rooms, unlike MKS. no comparison imo.

and "inconclusive" is a far cry from the assertion of "deceptive": http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...but-uncles-results-inconclusive-77902662.html

plus, tom's wife provided an alibi and "eventually the family was cleared", unlike lisa's: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1011/20/se.02.html

 

[RANCH]

Had Capt Young been the spokesman for my case, I would have been in the chief's office after the 1st week and demanded someone else. He unfairly colored the case by saying, "They've quit cooperating in the case." That was not true and an intimidation tactic used to shake Bradley and Irwin.

I think that KCPD lied to DB and said that she "failed" the polygraph test in an attempt to get her to confess. The local media then used that as an excuse to vilify Lisa's parents.

JMO

 

[RANCH]

Mom of Baby Lisa Irwin admits she failed a polygraph test during talks with KCPD

Lauer asked, "Let me ask both of you some direct questions: Have both of you taken lie-detector tests, polygraphs as part of this investigation?"

Deborah Bradley said, " I have, I volunteered they said that I failed and I continued to say that's not possible, because I have no idea, I don't know where she's at, I did not do this."

LE told her she failed the polygraph. That's a big difference than actually failing a polygraph. Personally, I think that polygraphs are a bunch of crap.

So pass or fail doesn't mean a whole lot to me.

http://www.kshb.com/news/region-mis...iled-a-polygraph-test-during-talks-with-kcpd-

 

[askfornina]

It was the front window if I recall correctly. The back ground level is just a garage with stairs going up to the living area.

Yes, it was the front computer room window. There is a basement area with a pool table in addition to the garage. The stairs go up to the computer room.

These videos have footage from inside the Irwin home..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-H2e0hb5gM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG-1pyINX7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rn0wLhgPWps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj5_vhOdoVU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHTGqfU0AAU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzFVV4q3WWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGOjyVyOJYE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKXGQyHrILI